Doubt Rielly is on the team next year, and Finn cannot play in the AHL next year.
- burn

Yeah i guess finn will only be 19... But Rielly will be a Leaf next year, theres really no doubt in my mind.. If Yak is playing this year then Rielly will be NHL ready next year.

Gunnar and Gardiner are a massive upgrade over Fraser and Holzer. Sooner or later their luck is gonna run out. Lets not be stupid about this and lets put real nhl calibre players back in the line up. If we can trade Liles that would be good too. Holzer is good enough to be an NHL regular but to think he's better than Gunnar or Gards is not using your head. Leafs need to make some trades.. I can see Grabo, Liles, Holzer, MacA, Kuli, and maybe even Brown being traded.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Holzer and Fraser have not been playing the game of "luck", they have been very solid and are a presence the Leafs D has lacked for years now. Both have immense size, strength, block shots, CLEAR THE NET, and make smart plays with the puck. Every scrum since they've been injected to the lineup has been either to the left or right of our net, rather than the crease like they used to be. We're way harder to play against with those two in the lineup, and its the reason they're still in it and we're winning games.
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Gunnar is now trade bait, Franson is a mainstay now so it spells the end of Carl IMO (love that Cody's finally playing and getting chances he deserves), Liles is who Gardiner should be replacing when he does get the call, otherwise we keep it the same. At the deadline we should be looking to deal Grabovski, Gunnar, Liles, and MacArthur. The rest have earned their keep and given us a much needed forceful and strong identity.
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Thank you Randy Carlyle, Komarov, Fraser, Holzer, Franson, McLaren, Orr, JVR, Kadri, Frattin and McClement, for making this team tougher to play against. This is a new team with an actual identity. Injecting Gunnar and Gardiner and taking out our balls from the lineup so they can play, is an extreme setback. Theres much more to this game then skating fast and making pretty plays, we need heavy lifters and those who you spell out of the equation are exactly that.
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PS: i agree with the rest of what you said, about who can be traded. Kulie and Holzer stay however.

the point for me is, Gunnar has more value in a trade. I'm not confused, it's a question of dealing from strength, which is our "D" Gunnar and Liles can be replaced to upgrade our top six
- shmenge

You're right, some just don't know enough. Fraser is one of the few that bring that element on the back end. Gunner, Liles, Gardiner, Kostka none of them bring what Fraser brings.

Yeah i guess finn will only be 19... But Rielly will be a Leaf next year, theres really no doubt in my mind.. If Yak is playing this year then Rielly will be NHL ready next year.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

That really makes no sense..... what does one have to do with the other?? They play different positions, on different teams with different mind sets. There is no connection to each other.


I'd treat him like Pieterangelo in St.Louis.....He was drafted in 08 and went back to junior twice and played in 2 WJC after his draft year.

You're right, some just don't know enough. Fraser is one of the few that bring that element on the back end. Gunner, Liles, Gardiner, Kostka none of them bring what Fraser brings.
- burn

whatever. we'll see i guess.. I understand that you want big solid Dmen cuz they are hard to get around and can do well clearing traffic in front of the net.... But you also need guys who can make decent passes to get the puck up to the forwards.

That really makes no sense..... what does one have to do with the other?? They play different positions, on different teams with different mind sets. There is no connection to each other.


I'd treat him like Pieterangelo in St.Louis.....He was drafted in 08 and went back to junior twice and played in 2 WJC after his draft year.
- burn

If he's ready, he's ready, time will tell. As long as he earns whatever he earns then that IMO is all that matters. I don't like when players are forced back to their junior teams, just as much as i don't like when players are rushed into the nhl. When players are rushed, they face harsh realities alot of the time, and forget what made them successful before they made the show. When players are forced into their junior teams after ripping up their nhl camps, they lose confidence, a lot of the time their numbers regress because the pressure increases for them to produce even better numbers than they did before. If he's ready next year, and there is a commodity he can replace in the lineup, then keep him. If he's still a few grooms away from the show, then like you say, give him time in junior and in the minors until he's ready. I think Morgan has what it takes to be ready next year, but he definitely needs to earn it.

That really makes no sense..... what does one have to do with the other?? They play different positions, on different teams with different mind sets. There is no connection to each other.


I'd treat him like Pieterangelo in St.Louis.....He was drafted in 08 and went back to junior twice and played in 2 WJC after his draft year.
- burn

HAHA your out to get me this morning eh bud? I goto lots of WHL games here.. Rielly is far better than anyone ive seen so far and he has nothing to gain from playing here anymore. Since he can't play for the Marlies cuz of age then he needs to be with the Leafs. Rielly has unbelievable athletic ability and also has amazing vision.

whatever. we'll see i guess.. I understand that you want big solid Dmen cuz they are hard to get around and can do well clearing traffic in front of the net.... But you also need guys who can make decent passes to get the puck up to the forwards.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

You need a mix though, it can't all be Franson, Kostka, Liles, Gunner, Gardiner. You need some physicality and grit back there, and RC likes it like that anyways.

The grit and steady dzone play by frazer and Holzer makes at least one of those above expendable.

whatever. we'll see i guess.. I understand that you want big solid Dmen cuz they are hard to get around and can do well clearing traffic in front of the net.... But you also need guys who can make decent passes to get the puck up to the forwards.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Holzer and Fraser have been making decent passes, thats the thing. Liles, Phaneuf, and Franson are decent passers aswell, and Randy's breakout scheme allows the centermen to dictate alot on the success of our neutral zone entry, rather then the D and wingers. It's a big change from Wilsons philosophy which demanded skilled defensemen, and crafty (and strong on the wall) wingers, as alot of the time the puck was rung around when the pass first option on the side they were on didn't work (very predictable breakout, and even more predictable attack, which is why Wilson got fired). If Wilson was here Holzer and Fraser would get embarrassed, but in Randy's system its a different story. This needs to be taken into account.

You need a mix though, it can't all be Franson, Kostka, Liles, Gunner, Gardiner. You need some physicality and grit back there, and RC likes it like that anyways.

The grit and steady dzone play by frazer and Holzer makes at least one of those above expendable.
- burn

Oh i agree. I have nothing against Fraser. He brings a lot of toughness and experience to the lineup. Leafs just have a lot of guys waiting in the wings right now thats all.

Kotska doesnt excite me... Of all the D he is the one who I would move out. I may be worng but I beleive if he is sent back to the Marlies he has to pass through waivers? Which I doubt he would do

If he's ready, he's ready, time will tell. As long as he earns whatever he earns then that IMO is all that matters. I don't like when players are forced back to their junior teams, just as much as i don't like when players are rushed into the nhl. When players are rushed, they face harsh realities alot of the time, and forget what made them successful before they made the show. When players are forced into their junior teams after ripping up their nhl camps, they lose confidence, a lot of the time their numbers regress because the pressure increases for them to produce even better numbers than they did before. If he's ready next year, and there is a commodity he can replace in the lineup, then keep him. If he's still a few grooms away from the show, then like you say, give him time in junior and in the minors until he's ready. I think Morgan has what it takes to be ready next year, but he definitely needs to earn it.
- Rysko81

I get what you are saying, but at the same time Peiterangelo was drafted almost in the same spot at Rielly (4th, 4 years earlier) and they took him slow and he's now considered a norris contender. Reilly has also missed a lot of time and is coming of a major injury.

I'm not saying he has to go back. I agree that if he bursts onto the team and forces them then yeah. But It's not the end of the world of him to go back and get another WJC again. If he does earn a spot then they have to make room for him too, and that may not be easy.

HAHA your out to get me this morning eh bud? I goto lots of WHL games here.. Rielly is far better than anyone ive seen so far and he has nothing to gain from playing here anymore. Since he can't play for the Marlies cuz of age then he needs to be with the Leafs. Rielly has unbelievable athletic ability and also has amazing vision.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Oh, I know it. I'm really excited about him. Just saying that if he goes back again it's not the end of the world, see Peiterangelo.

Kotska doesnt excite me... Of all the D he is the one who I would move out. I may be worng but I beleive if he is sent back to the Marlies he has to pass through waivers? Which I doubt he would do
- Popcorn Kid

I'm sorta in the same boat.. He's played well but the excitement is wearing off now.. He had a good game against MTL but has made mistakes passing on the blueline a couple times. It would suck to lose him. Leafs have too many Defecemen and thats not really a bad problem to have

Oh i agree. I have nothing against Fraser. He brings a lot of toughness and experience to the lineup. Leafs just have a lot of guys waiting in the wings right now thats all.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

But none really that do what he does.

Kotska doesnt excite me... Of all the D he is the one who I would move out. I may be worng but I beleive if he is sent back to the Marlies he has to pass through waivers? Which I doubt he would do
- Popcorn Kid

Correct.

Oh, I know it. I'm really excited about him. Just saying that if he goes back again it's not the end of the world, see Peiterangelo.
- burn

It not the end of the world but it's not going to help much.. I think the WJC are kinda overrated a bit. We hype it up way to much here in Canada and it's only a good experience if they win. Everyone thought Canada would be in the gold medal game but they got killed by a more determined USA team.

But none really that do what he does.
- burn

I feel Fraser is a perfect 5/6 dman. does what he is supposed to do.. The +11 doesn't lie.. He helps keep that puck out of his net

I'm sorta in the same boat.. He's played well but the excitement is wearing off now.. He had a good game against MTL but has made mistakes passing on the blueline a couple times. It would suck to lose him. Leafs have too many Defecemen and thats not really a bad problem to have
- Arctic_AARDVARK

He was being used way too much early on. His icetime has started to come down now.

But none really that do what he does.
- burn

K,, well ill give you the benefit of the doubt that you may understand Carlyles system a little better than i do. I tend to watch what the forwards are doing most of the time.

It will definitely be interesting to see what the Leafs do with all the dmen they have. Logic dictates they will trade one, not necessarily O'Reilly and not necessarily right now but by the deadline for sure. I think it is fair to assume komi will be an amnesty buyout in the off season. But even with that we still have too many guys back there, so why not move one now for help where we need it? I could see Liles, Gunnar or even Gardiner being moved. But I guess we will see.

It not the end of the world but it's not going to help much.. I think the WJC are kinda overrated a bit. We hype it up way to much here in Canada and it's only a good experience if they win. Everyone thought Canada would be in the gold medal game but they got killed by a more determined USA team.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Terrible use of players throughout the tournament.

I feel Fraser is a perfect 5/6 dman. does what he is supposed to do.. The +11 doesn't lie.. He helps keep that puck out of his net
- Popcorn Kid

agreed.

He is what Komi was supposed to be!!

He was being used way too much early on. His icetime has started to come down now.
- burn

he has cool hair tho

HAHA your out to get me this morning eh bud? I goto lots of WHL games here.. Rielly is far better than anyone ive seen so far and he has nothing to gain from playing here anymore. Since he can't play for the Marlies cuz of age then he needs to be with the Leafs. Rielly has unbelievable athletic ability and also has amazing vision.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Oiii. The old "i got to whl games" thing. Lolll. We all have, and none of us our scouts. I was on a line with Kyle Turris for the Burnaby Exprss in an exhibition game playing JR. A, it doesn't mean i know he deserves top line minutes in the NHL (aka the best league in the world). Rielly is an undeniable talent on a terrible team, and he carries them very impressively. That said if he makes it, it will be because he outright won the job and shows he can play head and shoulders above the competition (we can't have him barely making it, and reducing himself to a 5 or 6 just because he has potential, dmen especially his size, are a different story). He needs to earn what he has by producing in a top 4 role, he can't just make it because he has amazing qualities capable of doing the job. We have room for 3 offensive minded defensemen at the very most Phaneuf will be one of them, Gardiner will be another. Rielly will have to beat out Gunnarsson, Kostka and Liles, for the other spot if theyre still here, and thats no easy task.
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next year:
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Phaneuf-Gardiner
______- Holzer
Fraser - Franson