He is a lousy defender and was demoted justly.. he will never play under Carlyle.. if he doesn't stop the Wilson Era defending.. and I have been a Leaf fan longer than most.

I still see him as a great talent.. but he has to defend..period.
- DoctorNHL

yes. he will.

I'm not entirely sure why you're ripping on Gardiner so hard here.

He was a good defender last year on a team with a poopty system. He got his bell rung in the AHL and has needed some time to get back up to speed.

What's the big deal?
- Leeman4Gilmour

He carried the puck well in the offensive third he did some special things.. but he was lousy in his own zone if you hit him hard.. though he can stick handle well and given space.. he can dangle and get loose.. but they figured him out towards the end.. and just pounded him.. in front of the net he was like a fish out of water.

I watch a lot of soccer too.. and some fans want every player on the field to be offensive.. they want FB's all to attack, they want CB's to score from headers, they want Defensive midfielders to attack and score.. every team needs role players.. guys that do the dirty work so that the others star.

You could have a team of Gretzky's and I would line up a team of Orr's and beat the crap out of them every day. In the end it is a team game.. and everyone has to contribute every day both ways.. if you are to win a Cup.

Just saying.. I like Gardiner.. but think Carlyle is doing the best thing for him.. by forcing him to defend first.. it will make him an elite player.

If an NHL player tried to bribe me and he only gave my 50$..... I wouldn't give him credit for breakaway goals... Let alone pumping up his hit totals.
- robin_steele264

yeah, but you don't need the money.
how much do you think a bean counter makes anyway

We know Gardiner have the NHL offensive tools. Hey if this makes him a better all around d-man than even better. He has the right teacher right now in Eakins. Look at the marvellous work Eakins did with Kadri, Frattin & Scrivens. Hopefully Eakins can do the same with Gardiner & Colborne. Though Eakins said the other day that Gardiner is close to being ready to return to the NHL.
- GCHonda

Agreed my friend this lesson will make him one of the elite Dmen in the game.. and no better coaches than Eakins & Carlyle to get him there.

yes. he will.
- Barx

No. He won't.

No. He won't.
- DoctorNHL

he will have to at some point, especially if he is trade bait

He carried the puck well in the offensive third he did some special things.. but he was lousy in his own zone if you hit him hard.. though he can stick handle well and given space.. he can dangle and get loose.. but they figured him out towards the end.. and just pounded him.. in front of the net he was like a fish out of water.

I watch a lot of soccer too.. and some fans want every player on the field to be offensive.. they want FB's all to attack, they want CB's to score from headers, they want Defensive midfielders to attack and score.. every team needs role players.. guys that do the dirty work so that the others star.

You could have a team of Gretzky's and I would line up a team of Orr's and beat the crap out of them every day. In the end it is a team game.. and everyone has to contribute every day both ways.. if you are to win a Cup.

Just saying.. I like Gardiner.. but think Carlyle is doing the best thing for him.. by forcing him to defend first.. it will make him an elite player.
- DoctorNHL

I wouldn't bet on that. Gretzky was the best offensive player of all time. He also holds the record for most short-handed goals.

Yeah, the guy killed penalties. He was also a career +518.

It's an interesting "what if" though.

he will have to at some point, especially if he is trade bait
- bobbyisno1

I think he will be back up when they trade Liles for a 3rd to 4th rounder and a bag of lollies.. by then the message will have sunk in. We improve greatly.

No. He won't.
- DoctorNHL

so is this your crypic way of insinuating he will be traded....cause I'm gonna assume you are smart enough to realize Gardiner won't be staying in the minors for another two seasons until Carlyles contract runs out.

I wouldn't bet on that. Gretzky was the best offensive player of all time. He also holds the record for most short-handed goals.

Yeah, the guy killed penalties.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Without McSorley & Semenko.. all Gretzky's would be out for the season in the first game... I promise... All Orr's would be back from suspension after 5 games... we win.

I think he will be back up when they trade Liles for a 3rd to 4th rounder and a bag of lollies.. by then the message will have sunk in. We improve greatly.
- DoctorNHL

so, then you agree,Gardiner will play for Carlyle.
thank you.

Again...I have yet to see any Leaf fans wanting to dump Gardiner...


To land something good u have to give up something good...


Argue all day that Gardiner is more valuable going forward and u will have a solid point/argument but please don't attempt to call out anyone who would be willing to give him up as fans who just want to dump him because thats not how it is...


Value for value imo...Thats not a shot at Gardiner...
- Fruitcakenipple

Got your point. However if some Leaf fans are willing to trade Gardiner for less value than he's worth than are pretty much talking about dumping him. If I was Nonis I would NEVER do Gardiner straight up for O'Reilly. The Leafs wouldn't be getting value for value as RO has not proven he's a true #1 center & that's the Leafs #1 need.

so is this your crypic way of insinuating he will be traded....cause I'm gonna assume you are smart enough to realize Gardiner won't be staying in the minors for another two seasons until Carlyles contract runs out.
- Barx

No I don't want to trade Gardiner especially not for O'Reilly.. like I said he needs to learn his lesson.. once learnt he will be an exceptional player at both ends of the rink.

Without McSorley & Semenko.. all Gretzky's would be out for the season in the first game... I promise... All Orr's would be back from suspension after 5 games... we win.
- DoctorNHL

Hitting Gretzky was, to paraphrase one NHLer, like trying to check a rope hanging from the ceiling.

No I don't want to trade Gardiner especially not for O'Reilly.. like I said he needs to learn his lesson.. once learnt he will be an exceptional player at both ends of the rink.
- DoctorNHL

but you stated he will never play for Carlyle.

so, then you agree,Gardiner will play for Carlyle.
thank you.
- Barx

The point is he wouldn't play unless he took his defensive responsibilities responsibly.. like I said.. he will have learnt the lesson by then.

The point is he wouldn't play unless he took his defensive responsibilities responsibly.. like I said.. he will have learnt the lesson by then.
- DoctorNHL

I just think you're drastically overstating why Gardiner is not here this year.

He was injured. The end.

No I don't want to trade Gardiner especially not for O'Reilly.. like I said he needs to learn his lesson.. once learnt he will be an exceptional player at both ends of the rink.
- DoctorNHL

EXACTLY!!!

but you stated he will never play for Carlyle.
- Barx

Who invited the parrot.. with the one line reading comprehension?

HE WILL HAVE LEARNT HIS LESSON OF TAKING HIS DEFENSIVE RESPONSIBILITIES SERIOUSLY.. repeat after me.. I will find you a cracker..

He is a lousy defender and was demoted justly.. he will never play under Carlyle.. if he doesn't stop the Wilson Era defending.. and I have been a Leaf fan longer than most.

I still see him as a great talent.. but he has to defend..period.
- DoctorNHL

its not that carlyle wont play him, its just that he has liles.

take an honest look at carlyle's preferred D

PMD and/or risk reward types:
phaneuf, liles, franson

steady, gritty, stay at home guys
kostka, fraser, holzer

carlyle brings a balanced approach, so gardiner wont see much game action until one of the 3 offensive minded guys are out of the picture.

I just think you're drastically overstating why Gardiner is not here this year.

He was injured. The end.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Yup

I just think you're drastically overstating why Gardiner is not here this year.

He was injured. The end.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Again EXACTLY!!! Seems like alot of people think Gardiner is in the AHL cause he is not NHL worthy.... WRONG. He got injured in the AHL during the lockout & he needed time to get his game back.

I just think you're drastically overstating why Gardiner is not here this year.

He was injured. The end.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Concussions are hard to ascertain the affects.. I am just saying Carlyle used that excuse to save face.. he just wants Gardiner to be more responsible in his own end. For a player of Gardiner's talent.. he should quickly pick it up.. I am still gung ho on his prospects going forward.

Got your point. However if some Leaf fans are willing to trade Gardiner for less value than he's worth than are pretty much talking about dumping him. If I was Nonis I would NEVER do Gardiner straight up for O'Reilly. The Leafs wouldn't be getting value for value as RO has not proven he's a true #1 center & that's the Leafs #1 need.
- GCHonda

No some fans are willing to trade potential(Gardiner) for potential......


Gardiner hasn't proven anything yet and right now is nothing more than "potential"...

Concussions are hard to ascertain the affects.. I am just saying Carlyle used that excuse to save face.. he just wants Gardiner to be more responsible in his own end. For a player of Gardiner's talent.. he should quickly pick it up.. I am still gung ho on his prospects going forward.
- DoctorNHL

Fair enough.