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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Talk is Cheap
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blizzzard
New Jersey Devils
Location: Orillia, ON
Joined: 07.02.2011

Feb 17 @ 11:50 AM ET
Rinaldo has exceptional speed, and is a good agitator. As he matures, and keeps the reckless play to a minimum, the reputation can be lost. Look at Matt Cooke. His reputation was awful and he worked at it and cut his PIM by more than half. Look at what he did against Winnipeg, drawing two penalties and being a real pain in the ass for the Jets to deal with.

Sestito is a different kind of player. He's not an agitator, he's a heavyweight. He's a good skater for his size, but he's not going to get under other team's skin like Rinaldo does.

That said, If I can get a 2nd rounder + for either, I'd consider it.

- Jsaquella

If guys like Poni Tangradi and loktionov are going for 7ths with the exception of Poni who went for a 7th this year and 4th next i can't imagine you would get anywhere near a 2 round pick for either Rinaldo or Sestito unless im misunderstanding what your saying
Just5
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 05.22.2008

Feb 17 @ 11:50 AM ET
Regarding #2, I read a couple years ago Ken Holland's philosophy in building a championship D corps and it was exaclty as you say it. You don't overspend on defensive defenseman. If you break the bank, do it for Offensive Dmen like weber.
- Hextall271


That type of player (perfect example is Sean odonnell) is usually available in free agency. The group of the 3 of them are not dynamic enough to makeup a top 4.
Just5
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 05.22.2008

Feb 17 @ 11:55 AM ET
Rinaldo has exceptional speed, and is a good agitator. As he matures, and keeps the reckless play to a minimum, the reputation can be lost. Look at Matt Cooke. His reputation was awful and he worked at it and cut his PIM by more than half. Look at what he did against Winnipeg, drawing two penalties and being a real pain in the ass for the Jets to deal with.

Sestito is a different kind of player. He's not an agitator, he's a heavyweight. He's a good skater for his size, but he's not going to get under other team's skin like Rinaldo does.

That said, If I can get a 2nd rounder + for either, I'd consider it.

- Jsaquella


Cooke has been a career 3rd liner. I'm not sure what he was when he came in. But Rinaldos all around game is far inferior to cookes
camby
Montreal Canadiens
Location: BC
Joined: 10.09.2008

Feb 17 @ 11:56 AM ET
I really thought the flyers would be a handful last night maybe it was fatique but when there was no big third period push I was surprised.
mydoglicks
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: downingtown, PA
Joined: 06.25.2009

Feb 17 @ 11:57 AM ET
Call me crazy but I still believe Weber becomes available somehow.
- JoeRussomanno


keep sucking, draft mackinnon, trade g for weber
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Feb 17 @ 11:58 AM ET
If guys like Poni Tangradi and loktionov are going for 7ths with the exception of Poni who went for a 7th this year and 4th next i can't imagine you would get anywhere near a 2 round pick for either Rinaldo or Sestito unless im misunderstanding what your saying
- blizzzard


I'm not expecting to get a 2nd for Rinaldo or Sestito. I'm saying that if somebody offered that, I'd be willing to move them.

I think that Rinaldo has more value than Tangradi. Guy skates like he's in mud. I'm surprised that Loktionov was so cheap, except that Lombardi said they wanted to move him ASAP after his demand for a trade.

mydoglicks
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: downingtown, PA
Joined: 06.25.2009

Feb 17 @ 12:00 PM ET
Holmgren went for the big offseason swung and missed. Strikeout!
He needs to use some patience and not panic. This team clearly needs some depth and an upgrade in talent.

- bird_dog


not sure other gms want to deal with because of his antics last off season, and ufas want to come becuase of what he did to cartsey and richy
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Feb 17 @ 12:00 PM ET
Cooke has been a career 3rd liner. I'm not sure what he was when he came in. But Rinaldos all around game is far inferior to cookes
- Just5


That's not the comparison I made. Cooke has been a solid player, in addition to being an agitator/dirty player.

I simply noted that Cooke managed to reduce the amount of time he spent in the penalty box and that Rinaldo could do the same.
FlyerGuy
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 06.18.2007

Feb 17 @ 12:00 PM ET
There's nothing wrong with this team that a few more goals wouldn't fix. Getting Giroux and Briere going, and having Hartnell back will be a big shot in the arm.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Feb 17 @ 12:01 PM ET
A decision to do nothing can be a positive decision.

I really like the core of this Flyers team. I think Holmgren has done a great job in setting this team up for years to come.

This is not rocket science. The Flyers do not have a #1 Dman. It hurts them badly on both ends of the ice. Holmgren understands this. He could rush out and over pay for a short term fix. Or, he can wait and get the talent that will fit the 10 year footprint he is building on this very young team.
JoeRussomanno
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: me bitter? F-no i think it's hilarious
Joined: 12.14.2011

Feb 17 @ 12:01 PM ET
keep sucking, draft mackinnon, trade g for weber
- mydoglicks

Let me position myself in the ol' bomb shelter real quick; I'd have made that trade last summer *slams concrete manhole cover shut.
blizzzard
New Jersey Devils
Location: Orillia, ON
Joined: 07.02.2011

Feb 17 @ 12:02 PM ET
I'm not expecting to get a 2nd for Rinaldo or Sestito. I'm saying that if somebody offered that, I'd be willing to move them.

I think that Rinaldo has more value than Tangradi. Guy skates like he's in mud. I'm surprised that Loktionov was so cheap, except that Lombardi said they wanted to move him ASAP after his demand for a trade.

- Jsaquella

Ah see I thought I didn't completely get what you where saying I would to and I'm not sure why players are going for so little but it is kind of a good thing unless your trying to get rid of them
Hextall271
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Ersson-Ville, NB, NB
Joined: 01.18.2007

Feb 17 @ 12:02 PM ET
That type of player (perfect example is Sean odonnell) is usually available in free agency. The group of the 3 of them are not dynamic enough to makeup a top 4.
- Just5


When we had Pronger/Carle, Coburn/Timonen, Mesz/O'D, I thought we had a championship calibre D.. The Hockey news did an article on it. We've lost the first pairing and replaced it with two defensive guys...Not an ideal situation... Meszcoming back will help.
FlyerGuy
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 06.18.2007

Feb 17 @ 12:02 PM ET
not sure other gms want to deal with because of his antics last off season, and ufas want to come becuase of what he did to cartsey and richy
- mydoglicks

what antics?

and I highly doubt UFA's won't come here because Carter and Richards were traded.
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Feb 17 @ 12:03 PM ET
Ah see I thought I didn't completely get what you where saying I would to and I'm not sure why players are going for so little but it is kind of a good thing unless your trying to get rid of them
- blizzzard


It's been a strange season for trades. I think teams are hesitant and want to fully grasp the new CBA before going crazy.
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Feb 17 @ 12:05 PM ET
what antics?

and I highly doubt UFA's won't come here because Carter and Richards were traded.

- FlyerGuy


Hell, they managed to sign Weber to a 14 year offer sheet after those trades, and not only did Nick Grossmann willingly re-sign, but Carle and Jagr both wanted to return.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Feb 17 @ 12:06 PM ET
There's nothing wrong with this team that a few more goals wouldn't fix. Getting Giroux and Briere going, and having Hartnell back will be a big shot in the arm.
- FlyerGuy


Certainly scoring more goals would go a long way. But they also have to get better defensively. Even in terms of basic fundamental defense. 2 of the goals last night, the coverage was just horrendous. Not to mention the constant turnovers either in their own zone or at the opposition blueline.
blizzzard
New Jersey Devils
Location: Orillia, ON
Joined: 07.02.2011

Feb 17 @ 12:07 PM ET
It's been a strange season for trades. I think teams are hesitant and want to fully grasp the new CBA before going crazy.
- Jsaquella

Exactly Lou never does anything crazy outside of the Kovalchuk signing so its kinda of boring but at the same time he always seems to know what he is doing but at times I feel like it would be nice if we were more like the flyers and Rangers always making big trades and signings
Just5
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 05.22.2008

Feb 17 @ 12:08 PM ET
That's not the comparison I made. Cooke has been a solid player, in addition to being an agitator/dirty player.

I simply noted that Cooke managed to reduce the amount of time he spent in the penalty box and that Rinaldo could do the same.

- Jsaquella


Ok I misunderstood. Problem is Cooke doesn't have to walk that line to be effective
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Feb 17 @ 12:09 PM ET
Exactly Lou never does anything crazy outside of the Kovalchuk signing so its kinda of boring but at the same time he always seems to know what he is doing but at times I feel like it would be nice if we were more like the flyers and Rangers always making big trades and signings
- blizzzard


The big moves are exciting, but there's times I'd like to see less of it.

The biggest organizational issue with the Flyers is that they always seem to be chasing somebody else's approach. For years they tried to outmuscle the Devils, then post lockout, they tried to out speed the Sabres. then out tough the Bruins, now it seems they're trying to be the Devils again, based on what owner Ed Snider said before this season began.
FlyerGuy
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 06.18.2007

Feb 17 @ 12:10 PM ET
Certainly scoring more goals would go a long way. But they also have to get better defensively. Even in terms of basic fundamental defense. 2 of the goals last night, the coverage was just horrendous. Not to mention the constant turnovers either in their own zone or at the opposition blueline.
- MJL

true ... just saying that a few more goals would cover up a few flaws.

hell, a few more goals and we'd easily be looking at a 9-6-1 instead of 6-9-1.
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Feb 17 @ 12:11 PM ET
Ok I misunderstood. Problem is Cooke doesn't have to walk that line to be effective
- Just5


No, he doesn't. I just used Cooke's name because he's a guy that cleaned up his rep.

Rinaldo is more a Kaleta type, although I don't think he's as dirty as Kaleta....not saying that Rinaldo's a saint, by any means, either.
Just5
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 05.22.2008

Feb 17 @ 12:11 PM ET
A decision to do nothing can be a positive decision.

I really like the core of this Flyers team. I think Holmgren has done a great job in setting this team up for years to come.

This is not rocket science. The Flyers do not have a #1 Dman. It hurts them badly on both ends of the ice. Holmgren understands this. He could rush out and over pay for a short term fix. Or, he can wait and get the talent that will fit the 10 year footprint he is building on this very young team.

- spatso


You make a good point. The real fans in here would like to see them preach patience. However that is not the MO of the flyers brass. Whether it be purely internal philosophy or perceived pressure from the fan base
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Feb 17 @ 12:12 PM ET
When we had Pronger/Carle, Coburn/Timonen, Mesz/O'D, I thought we had a championship calibre D.. The Hockey news did an article on it. We've lost the first pairing and replaced it with two defensive guys...Not an ideal situation... Meszcoming back will help.
- Hextall271


And a point I want to make, is how fast things can change in this League. That wasn't that long ago. Don't like the defense now. Just wait a little bit. It's bound to change. Give Holmgren a chance. He's proven he can do it.
twotoekenn
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: perkasie, PA
Joined: 12.16.2009

Feb 17 @ 12:12 PM ET
I hate to say it but I think lavvy has to go. His teams here are consistently not ready to start game no matter the personnel.
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