The roster is a mess.

You basically have a possibility of 3 guys on D (Foster, Lilja, Gervais) that a vast majority of the NHL might not even consider dressing.

The thing is. What did they expect? Kimmo was bound to wear down eventually and not be able to play a full season.
- flyer_nutter

You lose 3 top defensman to injury, and that's what happens. I don't know any team that wouldn't be in the same boat.

The team currently leading the division lost it's leading scorer, yet somehow got better? If it did, it's because it's coaching staff made adjustments to account for the loss of Parise.

The Pens got better? They lost Jordan Staal and a very solid defensive defenseman in Zybenek Michalik. Brandon Sutter has replaced Staaal's defensive ability, but they lack his offense and nobody's replaced Michalek.

Shea Weber DID sign the offer sheet, which Nashville matched. So the fear of signing here is sort of a myth.
- Jsaquella

The Rangers got better. Losing Staal hurt, but they got a Sutter and he is still developing. And fine...Vokoun isn't on the ice every night. And clearly you don't "replace" Parise. Even the stinking Islanders are better.
But unless you can negotiate an NMC/NTC, you would have to second guess signing here. Especially after what history has shown.

All great points.

Only thing Id like to point out is Kimmo has also played through a lot. A lot of things that would probably makes some guys sit out. His play has usually dropped when he has done so.
- flyer_nutter

I hope they don't make any trades. Worse case scenerio bring the kids up from the Phantoms. Play out this shorten season and then make the adjustments needed in the offseason through UFA or trade.

Valid, until you look at what is available to replace him. If he was let go, who is there to replace him and at what cost?

Looking at the UFA list, there's a slew of veterans that are not as good as Timonen, but close in age and not to bad. Would one of them be acceptable on a one year deal at $5mm? I'm talking guys like Gonchar, Vishnovsky and Streit.

There's a few good names in RFA, but how realistic is it to expect to sign one of them to an offer sheet, and not have the current team match? How realistic is it to be able to trade for one's rights without trading a slew of good young forward talent? And if they trade for one, they still have to spend money to re-sign them.

We're not even sure how much time Timonen will miss. HE played 76 games last year and has missed 13 games in six years as a Flyer. He's far from injury prone.
- Jsaquella

Yes, it's a catch 22. There aren't many appealing options to replace him on the market. No question about that. Timonen is a warrior, he plays hurt. He's not injury prone as far as missing games, but the injuries at his advanced age effect his level of play.

There isn't a rule that states he has to be replaced next year, per say... Like you just said who did the Devils replace Parise with? They haven't skipped a beat.

He didn't play as poorly as Paul Martin. How many Pens fans did we hve roll thru here asking us if we wanted Martin?
- Jsaquella

the devs weren't longing for the halcyon days w/ Martin as the yotes were for zybby.

All great points.

Only thing Id like to point out is Kimmo has also played through a lot. A lot of things that would probably makes some guys sit out. His play has usually dropped when he has done so.
- flyer_nutter

It may have dropped, but it was still good enough to call him a very good defenseman. He certainly was still among the team's better defensemen, even when playing hurt.

If we're going to say a guy is or isn't the best defenseman in the league, using a month of stats after a player spent the previous 7 months not playing at all is pretty short sighted, to say the least.
- Jsaquella

I didn't say he wasn't good. Obviously he is.

the devs weren't longing for the halcyon days w/ Martin as the yotes were for zybby.
- isaiah520

Obviously. But the point remains, who did they replace him with? An untested rookie and fringe players. Hardly better on paper, and not as good on the ice, as the Pens have struggled.

We don't know what the severity of Timonen's injury is. If he has to miss a game or two in the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal.

The fact they are reduced to Foster/Gervais/Lilja on the ice at the same time is pathetic.
- PLindbergh31

How many top NHL defenseman is a team expected to have?

not having a durable org philosophy may have caught up with the team. I'm on board w/ ob18's choice of Jim nill. don't just collect talent, build a team that matches an org philosophy and show patience to see it thru.
- isaiah520

I am happy someone brought up Detroit. The Red Wings had much bigger holes to fill on defense and couldn't address them. Does Holland now suck. In the cap world, defensemen even above average ones like Carle cost a premium, and nobody is giving them away without sn overpayment. The only way to fix that need is to draft them, which the Flyers started to last year. It takes time. Prongers injury, Mezzs glass body, and Marshall and Bourbon washing out put this team behind the eight ball. Holmgren will have to bandaid until some prospects turn out.

Have to play with what you have at this point. I see no need to make a move.

Yes, it's a catch 22. There aren't many appealing options to replace him on the market. No question about that. Timonen is a warrior, he plays hurt. He's not injury prone as far as missing games, but the injuries at his advanced age effect his level of play.

There isn't a rule that states he has to be replaced next year, per say... Like you just said who did the Devils replace Parise with? They haven't skipped a beat.
- PLindbergh31

No, they haven't. Their defense also isn't as good on paper as the Flyers, either.

Maybe that's the most damning thing about Laviolette. Talent-wise, the Flyers should be handling the Devils. Yet, they've lost 6 straight to them, largely without making adjustments.

You lose 3 top defensman to injury, and that's what happens. I don't know any team that wouldn't be in the same boat.
- MJL

It would definately help having a healthy Kimmo and Meszaros.

The hit for that cannot be discounted.

Its created an unfortunate mess on the back end, that needed to be improved to begin with. A guy like Coburn has always been streaky. Grossman himself is a solid d-man, but he is not a top pairing guy for a reason. Luke Schenn is young and has come from a place that did little to help his development.

flyer flu?
- vejim

No, he doesn't pAIDS.

Yes, they will, eventually. This season and upcoming summer is not the easiest time to do that, which is likely why they signed the extension.
- Jsaquella

Why do they need to pay 6 mil for a 37 year old injury prone defenseman?

Worse case scenario - the Flyers miss the PO's. How will Timmo's signing help them get back next year?

No, they haven't. Their defense also isn't as good on paper as the Flyers, either.

Maybe that's the most damning thing about Laviolette. Talent-wise, the Flyers should be handling the Devils. Yet, they've lost 6 straight to them, largely without making adjustments.
- Jsaquella

You can have all the talent you want but its the team that executes and works the hardest that wins.

Obviously. But the point remains, who did they replace him with? An untested rookie and fringe players. Hardly better on paper, and not as good on the ice, as the Pens have struggled.
- Jsaquella

yea, but they have a real prospect pool and Dupres was ready for ft duty...diff from the flyers who just have 3rd paring guys in waiting and the hot mess crew of foster, lilja and gervais. I like our nhl talent level better, but having letang on board is a gigantic type of asset the flyers lack.

The Flyers have committed brutal turnovers in their own zone all year. Last night, Kimmo and Read's giveaways were killers. Is that coaching? The entire team hasn't made good decisions in the neutral zone or defensive zone all year. If you want to question the coach on accountability when his player's make mistakes, that I can agree. However, systematically I'm not as convinced.

Have to play with what you have at this point. I see no need to make a move.
- stveshdy

Hell no.

I dont see too many teams making trades now in the middle of it anyway. the Flyers imo however will need to eventually bring in at least one more top level guy into the d-core.

Whether that is through drafting and development, FA or via trade. It is just a matter of when the organization decides to set themselves up to bring in a guy like that.

I think they need two upper end guys after Kimmo is gone, but thats just me.

No, they haven't. Their defense also isn't as good on paper as the Flyers, either.

Maybe that's the most damning thing about Laviolette. Talent-wise, the Flyers should be handling the Devils. Yet, they've lost 6 straight to them, largely without making adjustments.
- Jsaquella

I agree with you. Talent wise the Devils aren't better than the Flyers. Laviolette hasn't made any adjustments, or at least we haven't seen any.

I don't know, the Flyers cupboard isn't empty, there are some nice pieces on this team, but they have some holes to fill. There is no quick fix.

The Rangers got better. Losing Staal hurt, but they got a Sutter and he is still developing. And fine...Vokoun isn't on the ice every night. And clearly you don't "replace" Parise. Even the stinking Islanders are better.
But unless you can negotiate an NMC/NTC, you would have to second guess signing here. Especially after what history has shown.
- section32

The Rangers got better. You said ALL their division rivals got better.

The Isles are playing terribly and their coach is likely to be fired any day if they don't start winning. The Rangers, who got better, are scuffling along. The Penguins are not better than they were last year. They're still having more up and downs than last year.

The one team that is better is the team that got markedly worse on paper.

How many top NHL defenseman is a team expected to have?
- MJL

None. As the Devils have showed. They have zero top dmen, and they beat the Flyers like a drum.

I agree with you. Talent wise the Devils aren't better than the Flyers. Laviolette hasn't made any adjustments, or at least we haven't seen any.

I don't know, the Flyers cupboard isn't empty, there are some nice pieces on this team, but they have some holes to fill. There is no quick fix.
- PLindbergh31

If the team decides to keep Schenn, Coots and Giroux as the top 3 centers.

Do you buy-out Briere?

I agree with you. Talent wise the Devils aren't better than the Flyers. Laviolette hasn't made any adjustments, or at least we haven't seen any.

I don't know, the Flyers cupboard isn't empty, there are some nice pieces on this team, but they have some holes to fill. There is no quick fix.
- PLindbergh31

Depend on your definition of talent is.

If it's understanding and doing what's necessary to win, then I disagree.

I agree with you. Talent wise the Devils aren't better than the Flyers. Laviolette hasn't made any adjustments, or at least we haven't seen any.

I don't know, the Flyers cupboard isn't empty, there are some nice pieces on this team, but they have some holes to fill. There is no quick fix.
- PLindbergh31

There is no quick fix, which is why they extended Timonen. There's no one oth there that they can replace him with that gives them a long term fix. And if they do sign somebody else and have to give a longer term contract to, they run into more money committed to the cap in the summer of 2014, they have less room to re-sign Giroux, Schenn, Couurier and Read.