It's not really the lack of offensive prowess around Briere that would make a 48-14-27 line disagreeable, it's that that line should be a shutdown line and Briere is shaky defensively.
- NickTheKid87

If Briere if shaky defensively, don't put him with defensively sound players ?

Is it better to put him with players that are bad or not as good defensively ?

Is a shutdown line or any line in the offensive zone taking shots and generating scoring chances and preventing attack by offense doing it's job ?

All I'm saying is, it wouldn't freaking hurt to try the line combination.

The shutdown line you seem to love or the line combos are not working as of yet ....hopefully you agree with that atleast .... 2 goals a game is not enough for any team to win on a regular basis

Me too. He had that kind of nasty to him that Flyers fans appreciate.
- Lexington Flyer

may have had something to do with the alcoholism and chain smoking.

i think it falls on both hitch and clarke.
- OrangeBlack27

I don't blame anybody. He didn't show much when he was here and he didn't even show much with Chicago originally even with more ice time. He was a late bloomer. It's not like they traded Giroux after his 2nd season (47 points in 82 games) for a bunch of scrubs or a aging dman.

Not sure about the Hitchcock thing but it makes sense that he didn't fit on the team. I feel like I'm one of the few people who doesn't hold the Sharp trade against Clarke.
- NickTheKid87

I hold it against Hitchcock, and it's still a terrible trade. Matt Ellison only played 7 games for the Flyers.

may have had something to do with the alcoholism and chain smoking.
- OrangeBlack27

Yeah...I seem to remember those rumors going around about Markov. Too bad. The guy could hit like a freight train and he was fairly sound defensively.

If Briere if shaky defensively, don't put him with defensively sound players ?

Is it better to put him with players that are bad or not as good defensively ?

Is a shutdown line or any line in the offensive zone taking shots and generating scoring chances and preventing attack by offense doing it's job ?

All I'm saying is, it wouldn't freaking hurt to try the line combination.

The shutdown line you seem to love or the line combos are not working as of yet ....hopefully you agree with that atleast .... 2 goals a game is not enough for any team to win on a regular basis
- Chris48

I wouldn't fault them for trying. All I'm saying is that Couturier, Talbot and another defensive forward like Fedotenko would make for a great shutdown line. There's basically no holes in something like that defensively. As Bill mentioned early (or I think it was Bill), Briere and Couturier's styles don't really match offensively so it might not even work to that extent.

Yeah Sharp played 66 games in Philly and had 15 points. In his first 130 games in Chicago, he had 24 points so it's not like he was great from the get go with CHI. Then in 07-08 he put up 62 points.

It irks me that we have to look back at every single trade and deem it a "win" or a "loss". At the time, the trade made a ton of sense. Sharp was a 3rd round pick anyway although he did play pretty well for the Phantoms. Regardless, the trade made sense in 2005, which is really the only time that should matter in this case.
- NickTheKid87

Actually, Sharp scored 58 points in his first 130 games in Chicago.

Ellison scored 1 point in 7 games in Philly then left the league for good.

I wouldn't fault them for trying. All I'm saying is that Couturier, Talbot and another defensive forward like Fedotenko would make for a great shutdown line. There's basically no holes in something like that defensively. As Bill mentioned early (or I think it was Bill), Briere and Couturier's styles don't really match offensively so it might not even work to that extent.
- NickTheKid87

yeah, i don't like that combo at all.

I don't mind new perspectives at all. It's just not entirely fair to judge some trades as good or bad. For example, I would deem the Zhitnik for Coburn trade as good, because they were giving up a guy who was obviously way past his prime for a 21 year old former top 10 pick. That would have been a good decision even if Coburn never panned out. On the flip side, a bad trade would be what Atlanta made.

A trade like Richards for Simmonds & Schenn or Schenn for JVR shouldn't really be viewed as good or bad regardless of what happens, because they made sense at the time and/or the team was trading from a position of strength to help bolster a weakness.
- NickTheKid87

yep

I hold it against Hitchcock, and it's still a terrible trade. Matt Ellison only played 7 games for the Flyers.
- Feanor

Patrick Sharp had 15 points in 66 games here and then had 58 in his first two years in Chicago (130 games). At the time, the Flyers had Gagne, Forsberg, Richards, Carter, Umberger, Handzus, Kapanen, Knuble all vying for time in the top 6. Sharp was a center as well and he wasn't going to play over Richards and Carter.

Actually, Sharp scored 58 points in his first 130 games in Chicago.

Ellison scored 1 point in 7 games in Philly then left the league for good.
- Feanor

Good catch.

may have had something to do with the alcoholism and chain smoking.
- OrangeBlack27

http://sportsillustrated....tes.nhl.hockey/index.html

if you are as bored as I am right now

Mediocre for top line offensive talent in the NHL.
Hecht is a 40-45point season guy as of Leino and Prospal.
Pommer since 2007 took off and is an incredible two way guy (had 30 points the year prior playing with Danny B.).
- Chris48

The Season that you referenced where Briere had 95 points. Pomminville had 34 goals and 34 assists. Hecht had I think 18 goals and 56 points. They also had Vanek, Roy, and number of players that did well offensively. I beleive they had 6 players with 60 or more points that Season.

http://sportsillustrated....tes.nhl.hockey/index.html

if you are as bored as I am right now
- wilsonecho91

read that last year. amazing.

The Season that you referenced where Briere had 95 points. Pomminville had 34 goals and 34 assists. Hecht had I think 18 goals and 56 points. They also had Vanek, Roy, and number of players that did well offensively. I beleive they had 6 players with 60 or more points that Season.
- MJL

Plus it was right after the lockout when the game was really open and every single borderline play was called. Offense was up the first few years after the lockout so point totals across the board were higher than usual, including Briere's.

Patrick Sharp had 15 points in 66 games here and then had 58 in his first two years in Chicago (130 games). At the time, the Flyers had Gagne, Forsberg, Richards, Carter, Umberger, Handzus, Kapanen, Knuble all vying for time in the top 6. Sharp was a center as well and he wasn't going to play over Richards and Carter.
- NickTheKid87

There's no reason he couldn't have been moved to wing, and played on the third line. I'm pretty sure he wasn't making much money at the time. He plays LW mainly in Chicago, and has scored 20+ goals six straight years.

Of course, Hitch thought he knew best. He was just wrong.

http://articles.philly.co...atrick-sharp-matt-ellison

The Season that you referenced where Briere had 95 points. Pomminville had 34 goals and 34 assists. Hecht had I think 18 goals and 56 points. They also had Vanek, Roy, and number of players that did well offensively. I beleive they had 6 players with 60 or more points that Season.
- MJL

Yeah .... they played with Briere that year

There's no reason he couldn't have been moved to wing, and played on the third line. I'm pretty sure he wasn't making much money at the time.

He plays LW mainly in Chicago, and has scored 20+ goals six straight years.
- Feanor

I know but still. He wasn't showing them anything that warranted keeping him when the hand a log jam of forwards. Umberger, Carter, Richards, Forsberg, Gagne, Knuble, Kapanen, Handzus hand priority over him. I doubt many people were overly upset when the trade happened. Sometimes, you trade a guy and he blooms else where. Oh well. I refuse to knock anybody over it because nobody has a crystal ball they can use to foresee this kind of stuff. The Flyers had a good team that year with a surplus of young forwards. Sharp was expendable and didn't have a spot on the team.

I wouldn't fault them for trying. All I'm saying is that Couturier, Talbot and another defensive forward like Fedotenko would make for a great shutdown line. There's basically no holes in something like that defensively. As Bill mentioned early (or I think it was Bill), Briere and Couturier's styles don't really match offensively so it might not even work to that extent.
- NickTheKid87

Maybe maybe not ... Don't know till you try it
With the first two lines Read - G - Simmonds and McGinn - Schenn- Voracek where do you put Danny .... with Fed and Knuble again ?

Patrick Sharp had 15 points in 66 games here and then had 58 in his first two years in Chicago (130 games). At the time, the Flyers had Gagne, Forsberg, Richards, Carter, Umberger, Handzus, Kapanen, Knuble all vying for time in the top 6. Sharp was a center as well and he wasn't going to play over Richards and Carter.
- NickTheKid87

easy to blame hitch looking back considering his long-accused distaste and short rope for young guys, but you're probably not off base either. can't remember if he played wing here at all, but obviously there was a log jam of Cs ahead of him on the roster at the time.

5 goals in 22 games before the trade that season playing fourth-line minutes here. he just needed a chance and when he got it, he scored 20 goals his first full season with chicago, but definitely a late-bloomer.

sucks like hell looking back on it but who knows how it would have turned out here.

ugh, he was probably traded because he was losing ice time not to the good players you listed, but to people like stevenson, brashear, jon sim, radivojevic, brian savage. http://www.hockey-referen...e.com/teams/PHI/2006.html

I know but still. He wasn't showing them anything that warranted keeping him when the hand a log jam of forwards. Umberger, Carter, Richards, Forsberg, Gagne, Knuble, Kapanen, Handzus hand priority over him. I doubt many people were overly upset when the trade happened. Sometimes, you trade a guy and he blooms else where. Oh well. I refuse to knock anybody over it because nobody has a crystal ball they can use to foresee this kind of stuff. The Flyers had a good team that year with a surplus of young forwards. Sharp was expendable and didn't have a spot on the team.
- NickTheKid87

Exactly....

Besides if he wasnt traded, who's to say if he would have turned into the player he did in Chicago? Maybe it is a case of the right guys around him to turn him into a 20+ goal scorer.

i think it falls on both hitch and clarke.
- OrangeBlack27

Another reason I like Lavi. He's a "General" (as in military leader, not all-encompassing) sort of coach that Crims likes but also isn't afraid to trust youngsters like Hitch was when he was here.

Maybe maybe not ... Don't know till you try it
With the first to lines Read - G - Simmonds and McGinn - Schenn- Voracek where do you put Danny .... with Fed and Knuble again ?
- Chris48

Good point. For now I'd try Danny with Couts and who ever but when Hartsy comes back I throw him on the top line RW.

Yeah .... they played with Briere that year
- Chris48

I know they did. I just pointed out that Pomminville and Hecht were not mediocre offensive players.

easy to blame hitch looking back considering his long-accused distaste and short rope for young guys, but you're probably not off base either. can't remember if he played wing here at all, but obviously there was a log jam of Cs ahead of him on the roster at the time.

5 goals in 22 games before the trade that season playing fourth-line minutes here. he just needed a chance and when he got it, he scored 20 goals his first full season with chicago, but definitely a late-bloomer.

sucks like hell looking back on it but who knows how it would have turned out here.

ugh, he was probably traded because he was losing ice time not to the good players you listed, but to people like stevenson, brashear, jon sim, radivojevic, brian savage. http://www.hockey-referen...e.com/teams/PHI/2006.html


- OrangeBlack27

i blame stevens. and carter.