Holmgren needs to settle the hell down sometimes. He says he is this time. But this is a small sample size. I'm encouraged by Brayden schenns play lately just wish he would stay on his damn skates

I disagree. They have Hartnell, Simmonds and now Tye McGinn. They need a sniper for Giroux, if anything.

Ryan isn't going to score more goals with Claude Giroux than he does with Ryan Getzlaff. Getzlaff is an outstanding playmaker, if not as good as Giroux, than certainly near Giroux's class. Expecting Ryan to team up with Giroux and sudden transform into a 40 goal scorer isn't being realistic.

Kessel is outscoring Ryan while playing with Tyler Bozak and Matt Stajan level players.
- Jsaquella

Bobby Ryan doesn't get top unit PP time in Anaheim. They go with Getzlaf, Perry, and Selanne on the top unit. He's only had 9 PPG in the past 3 seasons combined. Give him top PP time in Philly, and 40 goals is entirely realistic. If he has a career year a la Hartnell last year where he gets all the bounces imaginable, 50 isn't out of the question. His career low in shooting percentage for a season was 12.6%. His career average is close to 15%. If he isn't a sniper, I don't know what it.

Couturier's maximum potential is Jordan Staal. Bobby Ryan's maximum potential is Corey Perry. It's not even close to who is more valuable. The only argument against a Couturier based package for Ryan is that Ryan will, in all likelihood, be a Flyer come July 2015, so why not keep the young kids and build for a run in 3 years time when you can get him for nothing.

Bobby Ryan doesn't get top unit PP time in Anaheim. They go with Getzlaf, Perry, and Selanne on the top unit. He's only had 9 PPG in the past 3 seasons combined. Give him top PP time in Philly, and 40 goals is entirely realistic. If he has a career year a la Hartnell last year where he gets all the bounces imaginable, 50 isn't out of the question. His career low in shooting percentage for a season was 12.6%. His career average is close to 15%. If he isn't a sniper, I don't know what it.

Couturier's maximum potential is Jordan Staal. Bobby Ryan's maximum potential is Corey Perry. It's not even close to who is more valuable. The only argument against a Couturier based package for Ryan is that Ryan will, in all likelihood, be a Flyer come July 2015, so why not keep the young kids and build for a run in 3 years time when you can get him for nothing.
- rhornsburg

Valid point on the PP time. With more PP time, Ryan certainly could be a consistent 40 goal scorer here. Of course, a guy like Kessel, playing with Giroux on a PP, could possibly be a 50 goal scorer. I do think people get more excited over Ryan because of his ties to the area and his family's ties to Flyers execs and ignore guys that don't have those sort of ties.

I also disagree with your evaluation of Couturier. I think his ceiling is higher than that of Staal. He's a kid that topped the pre-season draft rankings of a very deep class, before getting sidelined with mono and starting poorly. As a 19 year old in the playoffs, he scored a hat trick, while holding the league MVP to a single even strength goal while he was on the ice against over a six game series.

Valid point on the PP time. With more PP time, Ryan certainly could be a consistent 40 goal scorer here. Of course, a guy like Kessel, playing with Giroux on a PP, could possibly be a 50 goal scorer. I do think people get more excited over Ryan because of his ties to the area and his family's ties to Flyers execs and ignore guys that don't have those sort of ties.

I also disagree with your evaluation of Couturier. I think his ceiling is higher than that of Staal. He's a kid that topped the pre-season draft rankings of a very deep class, before getting sidelined with mono and starting poorly. As a 19 year old in the playoffs, he scored a hat trick, while holding the league MVP to a single even strength goal while he was on the ice against over a six game series.
- Jsaquella

The only argument I have against that statement is "opportunity cost". You miss out on 2 plus seasons of Ryan's prime.

Valid point on the PP time. With more PP time, Ryan certainly could be a consistent 40 goal scorer here. Of course, a guy like Kessel, playing with Giroux on a PP, could possibly be a 50 goal scorer. I do think people get more excited over Ryan because of his ties to the area and his family's ties to Flyers execs and ignore guys that don't have those sort of ties.

I also disagree with your evaluation of Couturier. I think his ceiling is higher than that of Staal. He's a kid that topped the pre-season draft rankings of a very deep class, before getting sidelined with mono and starting poorly. As a 19 year old in the playoffs, he scored a hat trick, while holding the league MVP to a single even strength goal while he was on the ice against over a six game series.
- Jsaquella

The only argument I have against that statement is "opportunity cost". You miss out on 2 plus seasons of Ryan's prime.

Valid point on the PP time. With more PP time, Ryan certainly could be a consistent 40 goal scorer here. Of course, a guy like Kessel, playing with Giroux on a PP, could possibly be a 50 goal scorer. I do think people get more excited over Ryan because of his ties to the area and his family's ties to Flyers execs and ignore guys that don't have those sort of ties.

I also disagree with your evaluation of Couturier. I think his ceiling is higher than that of Staal. He's a kid that topped the pre-season draft rankings of a very deep class, before getting sidelined with mono and starting poorly. As a 19 year old in the playoffs, he scored a hat trick, while holding the league MVP to a single even strength goal while he was on the ice against over a six game series.
- Jsaquella

The only argument I have against that statement is "opportunity cost". You miss out on 2 plus seasons of Ryan's prime.

Bobby Ryan doesn't get top unit PP time in Anaheim. They go with Getzlaf, Perry, and Selanne on the top unit. He's only had 9 PPG in the past 3 seasons combined. Give him top PP time in Philly, and 40 goals is entirely realistic. If he has a career year a la Hartnell last year where he gets all the bounces imaginable, 50 isn't out of the question. His career low in shooting percentage for a season was 12.6%. His career average is close to 15%. If he isn't a sniper, I don't know what it.

Couturier's maximum potential is Jordan Staal. Bobby Ryan's maximum potential is Corey Perry. It's not even close to who is more valuable. The only argument against a Couturier based package for Ryan is that Ryan will, in all likelihood, be a Flyer come July 2015, so why not keep the young kids and build for a run in 3 years time when you can get him for nothing.
- rhornsburg

I think 40 goals out of Ryan is certainly possible. 50 is unlikely but who knows. I think he's a very good player, but is over hyped by many in Philly.
As far as Couturier, I disagree on his maximum potential. I think Jordan Staal is the low end of his potential. I think high end is Jonathon Toews.
Secondly, I couldn't disagree more that a player like Bobby Ryan is more valuable. Just in terms of position on the ice, a Center is a more valuable player then a Winger. Especially a Winger that is an offensive player. Not that it's not valuable, because it is. But in terms of position, it's Goaltender, Defenseman, Center, Wingers. Now throw in that the Couturier is an all situations player that if he reaches his offensive potential, he'll be twice the player that Bobby Ryan is. So the wishful thinking that Ryan will become a Flyers when he reached UFA status, is far from the only argument. In fact it's the least relevant argument.

I think 40 goals out of Ryan is certainly possible. 50 is unlikely but who knows. I think he's a very good player, but is over hyped by many in Philly.
As far as Couturier, I disagree on his maximum potential. I think Jordan Staal is the low end of his potential. I think high end is Jonathon Toews.
Secondly, I couldn't disagree more that a player like Bobby Ryan is more valuable. Just in terms of position on the ice, a Center is a more valuable player then a Winger. Especially a Winger that is an offensive player. Not that it's not valuable, because it is. But in terms of position, it's Goaltender, Defenseman, Center, Wingers. Now throw in that the Couturier is an all situations player that if he reaches his offensive potential, he'll be twice the player that Bobby Ryan is. So the wishful thinking that Ryan will become a Flyers when he reached UFA status, is far from the only argument. In fact it's the least relevant argument.
- MJL

I don't see the comp between Couturier and Toews, even as a ceiling. Toews is a special player. He is a 30 goal scorer, a true first line-caliber playmaker, a leader and captain, and an absolute dynamo in the faceoff circle. Couturier, even at his maximum potential, doesn't strike me as Toews's equal offensively, and certainly not in the dot. This is no insult to Couturier as Toews is one of the best players in the league. I think the Jordan Staal comparison is more on point, though Couturier will have to develop a bit more physically to be Staal's equal along the boards and in the defensive zone. Aside from Couturier's faceoff woes, the player he reminds me most of is Patrice Bergeron (in terms of a ceiling). Berg is a strong two way player who is especially adept in the neutral zone due to his hockey smarts. He can contribute close to 20 goals and give you another 30 assists or so. And he has the frame to be more physical than you'd expect.

I don't see the comp between Couturier and Toews, even as a ceiling. Toews is a special player. He is a 30 goal scorer, a true first line-caliber playmaker, a leader and captain, and an absolute dynamo in the faceoff circle. Couturier, even at his maximum potential, doesn't strike me as Toews's equal offensively, and certainly not in the dot. This is no insult to Couturier as Toews is one of the best players in the league. I think the Jordan Staal comparison is more on point, though Couturier will have to develop a bit more physically to be Staal's equal along the boards and in the defensive zone. Aside from Couturier's faceoff woes, the player he reminds me most of is Patrice Bergeron (in terms of a ceiling). Berg is a strong two way player who is especially adept in the neutral zone due to his hockey smarts. He can contribute close to 20 goals and give you another 30 assists or so. And he has the frame to be more physical than you'd expect.
- TheGreatNumber8

I'd be pretty happy with having a Patrice Bergeron for the next ten years.

I don't see the comp between Couturier and Toews, even as a ceiling. Toews is a special player. He is a 30 goal scorer, a true first line-caliber playmaker, a leader and captain, and an absolute dynamo in the faceoff circle. Couturier, even at his maximum potential, doesn't strike me as Toews's equal offensively, and certainly not in the dot. This is no insult to Couturier as Toews is one of the best players in the league. I think the Jordan Staal comparison is more on point, though Couturier will have to develop a bit more physically to be Staal's equal along the boards and in the defensive zone. Aside from Couturier's faceoff woes, the player he reminds me most of is Patrice Bergeron (in terms of a ceiling). Berg is a strong two way player who is especially adept in the neutral zone due to his hockey smarts. He can contribute close to 20 goals and give you another 30 assists or so. And he has the frame to be more physical than you'd expect.
- TheGreatNumber8

I completely understand what you're saying. Couturier matching Toews as a player, is probably somewhat of a reach. But that's why I said as a high side. If things work out perfectly, and he overachieves as a player. Toews, right out of the gate as a very young player was much better offensively, and at the FO dot. But let's keep in mind that all players develop differently and at different rates. I consider Toews probably the best two way Forward in the game of Hockey. So that is a high mountain for Couturier to reach. But I believe that it's possible, however remote the chances may be. Maybe I'm just dreaming a little there.
And I think that Jordan Staal and Patrice Bergeron are probably more realistic comparable's. Good post