Up here in Canada, after the game, on sportsnet or Tsn, they showed the video that the "war room" had, from the only angle that showed the puck crossing the line just prior to the yellow pegs coming ou of the ice. Prior to seeing that video, I did not think it was a goal. Had this replay been shown during the broadcast or in the arena post ruling, this would be a non issue.

Much as I love Hossa, I get why Q is trying other guys than him (and Sharp for that matter). Just not sure about the guys he's trying.
- John Jaeckel

Hossa's one SO move seems to be to try to blast the puck over the pad or through the five hole. A guy like Fasth is going to stop that 95% of the time.

Up here in Canada, after the game, on sportsnet or Tsn, they showed the video that the "war room" had, from the only angle that showed the puck crossing the line just prior to the yellow pegs coming ou of the ice. Prior to seeing that video, I did not think it was a goal. Had this replay been shown during the broadcast or in the arena post ruling, this would be a non issue.
- Sens2k5

Point conceded. I'll take that.

Didn't appear that way to me. Maybe I was influenced by the announcers. Heard tv AND RADIO say they didn't think it crossed the line and the Hawks got a gift.
- John Jaeckel

There's a clip of the video on the Hawks website under 2/12 Highlights. It won't load here at work, so I can't see. Not sure if it shows the angle they had last night. I'm sure NHL network would show it.

Yes, Sbisa made an awesome play, but in one of the angles shown, as he was sliding his back leg knocked the puck in before the net came off the pegs. Edzo didn't think it was a goal at first, but later stated the rule (78.4 or whatever) that the puck had clearly crossed the line before the net was comlpetely disloged from the pegs.

Didn't appear that way to me. Maybe I was influenced by the announcers. Heard tv AND RADIO say they didn't think it crossed the line and the Hawks got a gift.
- John Jaeckel

In real time, it was very tough to see the puck in the scrum of players around the paint, which is why your TV guys probably called it like they saw it. I do think Foley came around to ultimately agree with the goal after looking at the tape himself.

That said, I think it's important to note that the refs neither blew the whistle, or signaled an 'intent to blow' the whistle prior to the posts coming completely off their moorings. That's a pretty huge distinction, because...

Upon video review, the puck very clearly crosses the line while the goal posts are still in contact with their moorings.

Ahh Dennis.

I kinda agree with you. Leddy is earning it (through actually doing it).

I think that is part of the issue, the other part is too much puck movement around the perimeter and not enough player movement, and not enough net front presence.

PP was pretty good briefly last year when—yes—Clown Shoes was sent out to park in front of the net. I think Shaw and Toews are gamely trying. Stalberg some too. But none feel like a real intuitive guy there.
- John Jaeckel

Thanks John

You have to admit that at this moment, Leddy is the ONLY guy getting it done on the point on the PP. The only reason Unit 2 is far outplaying Unit 1 is what he does not only at the point, but bringing the puck out of our zone.

I'm just so very tired of seeing Keith and Seabrook take a few hesitant strides and then look like a deer in the headlights. My god, they simply don't look confident or have any idea of what to do. And if they don't, then get them the heck off the PP!

I wouldn't mind seeing Leddy and Seabs on unit 1 to get them going. But there's no way 2 and 7 should get the lion's share of PP time. No way.

I also think that, on the topic of the D -- and going back to Al's consistent comment on this for a long time -- that Oduya is playing to his level of a 5/6 guy and not a 3/4 guy. Nik Hjalmarsson is holding up that pair -- and covering for a TON of Oduya's crap play. It is not beyond thinking that sooner rather than later, 27 moves down and 8 moves up. If you ask me, I've seen much more of the frantic play in our end from 27 than I have from 8, who seems bigger/stronger and much more willing to engage. His calm with the puck has impressed me this year, like what we've seen out of 4 -- he never seems like he's in a fire drill but goes about the job at hand with calm.

I've watched these guys in practice and like I said, since they have both sides of the puck, it doesn't matter much what they practice -- Kompon was a disaster last year in LA and he's continuing the fine tradition Q has established here.

Point conceded. I'll take that.
- John Jaeckel

Cool. Now can we get back to complaining about the power play?!?!

I mentioned this during the game yesterday: Saad's tenacity is consistently drawing 1-2 penalties per game.

Per Behind the Net, he's actually drawing 2.3 penalties per game.

Now...if only our PP had legs.

OHHH GEEZZ,I was merely pointing out that people are already annointing the Hawks as Stanley Cup Champs & we haven't even got part way through it yet!
Plus there are Teams in the East that skate as good as the Hawks that are Nasty come playoff time & work hard for dirty goals! something we don't do! plus those teams don't have Kitchen & Kompon, "the Special K Team" behind their benches master minding the powerplay! the Hawks Have way too much talent to have a sharty powerplay! if you guys have NHL Center Ice , watch some games from the East! this "Little Run " is nice but that hill has along way to go before Rahmmy gets to march in a Stanley Cup Parade, that's all I'm tryin to say !
Lastly, i just went to the Lanches web site looking for O'Rielly's specs. they don't even have him listed. but what I DID notice is Ryan O'Byrne, 6'5, 234??, is he a center piece to the Av's future or could he be had? i thought the kid played good on a bad Canadiens D before. i bet he clears alot of creases out.
what are the chances SB Ever puts together an O"Rielly, O"Byrne blockbuster offer to present to the AV's ? slim & none probably! but just a nice thought before St. Paddy's Day! that's all!
- wonthecup10

Last night was one of the more physical opponents the hawks have played this season (and truly none of their opponents have been THAT physical of a team, maybe LA)... I watch a lot of eastern games and I think your point is quite valid here.

Ahh Dennis.

I kinda agree with you. Leddy is earning it (through actually doing it).

I think that is part of the issue, the other part is too much puck movement around the perimeter and not enough player movement, and not enough net front presence.

PP was pretty good briefly last year when—yes—Clown Shoes was sent out to park in front of the net. I think Shaw and Toews are gamely trying. Stalberg some too. But none feel like a real intuitive guy there.

Not sure why you're slamming the TOI of "1b", assuming that's 4 and 27. #4's been Rock Frickin' Hollywood all year.
- John Jaeckel

Leddy has sold me. He gets his shot through more times then not. I keep hearing media proclaim how great of a shot Seabrook has but he's very hesitant to shoot. Instead he's trying to force passes. You also have ZERO net presence. None. Nobody wants to sit in front of the net and take a beating or pop out into the slot. So unless you move it quickly, which they don't, or get a BS back door tap in, which the rest of the NHL strategizes against, this PP is doomed until these problems are fixed. The 4 on 3s were pathetic. Stagnant movement with tons of ice, and 20 ft slap shots aren't going to cut it. 99% of the goalies in the NHL are going to stop those.

Saad made a helluva move on the shoot out. He didn't elevate it or else it's a goal. I was surprised that Eddie O didn't know the rule on the morings having to come out COMPLETELY before the net is considered dislodged, but he's too busy giving shot outs, pimping Quebec junior tourneys, or god knows what else.

last night was a brief preview of what ails this team. Physicality. 1 handed poke checks to avoid contact, Keith, and running for your life, Oduya, led to numerous turnovers and tons of chances. Same thing that Phoenix did to them last spring.

Bickell was sensational. That's the Bickell we should EVERY night. He was by FAR the best forward. Saad had a strong game and has a Toews like workmanship with constantly moving his legs. He's doing the small things right, which is a great sign.

I will say...the idiotic penalties that Frolik takes are getting old. For what this guy earns, and what he was supposedly supposed to be, he's a solid PK guy who tries hard, but takes untimely penalties and couldn't hit the right side of a barn with his shot. He's a perfect candidate to flip to a team for a larger sized, grinding player, that they'll need come playoff time.

Lastly, Crawford...13 games and only can point to 1 game where he crapped himself, but he still righted the ship. Guy is showing confidence, and that's all you need in the NHL to be successful.

Cool. Now can we get back to complaining about the power play?!?!
- eburgio

No, now I want to fight about people comparing Saad to Bobby Orr.

(kidding, but COME ON)

It is really interesting to watch him and the divergent opinions on him. I USED to be in the camp that he was being over-hyped, but now I have to admit, what he does athletically, playing down hill ftrom the red line in, all that is pretty impressive.

I encountered the opinion last night that he is "carrying" that line and I think that, also, is absurd. His energy is bringing something to that line. But there are also holes (or at best rough edges) to his game that are in plain sight: never finishes a check, not great along the boards against players his size, will shoot into the side of the net rather than hold on and wait for a play to develop. And I'm not sure the awareness is there (yet) to play with really top guys who also need the puck on their blade.

So, work in progress and clearly, there is something to be very excited about going forward because he has (some) gifts that not many guys do. That said, he is far from a complete player. In spite of the hype.

Anyone catch Steve Konroyd saying that Saad's goal sort of reminded him of Bobby Orr's goal to win the cup against St Louis.

Thanks John

You have to admit that at this moment, Leddy is the ONLY guy getting it done on the point on the PP. The only reason Unit 2 is far outplaying Unit 1 is what he does not only at the point, but bringing the puck out of our zone.

I'm just so very tired of seeing Keith and Seabrook take a few hesitant strides and then look like a deer in the headlights. My god, they simply don't look confident or have any idea of what to do. And if they don't, then get them the heck off the PP!

I wouldn't mind seeing Leddy and Seabs on unit 1 to get them going. But there's no way 2 and 7 should get the lion's share of PP time. No way.

I also think that, on the topic of the D -- and going back to Al's consistent comment on this for a long time -- that Oduya is playing to his level of a 5/6 guy and not a 3/4 guy. Nik Hjalmarsson is holding up that pair -- and covering for a TON of Oduya's crap play. It is not beyond thinking that sooner rather than later, 27 moves down and 8 moves up. If you ask me, I've seen much more of the frantic play in our end from 27 than I have from 8, who seems bigger/stronger and much more willing to engage. His calm with the puck has impressed me this year, like what we've seen out of 4 -- he never seems like he's in a fire drill but goes about the job at hand with calm.

I've watched these guys in practice and like I said, since they have both sides of the puck, it doesn't matter much what they practice -- Kompon was a disaster last year in LA and he's continuing the fine tradition Q has established here.
- savvyone-1

When you win a stanley cup and still get fired....you have a major issue. Quenneville, much like Lovie Smith, is going to get fired because his loyalty to his assistants who have no business coaching, are going to kill this team.

There is NO excuse for a team that rolls out 10 talented guys on both units, to be this bad. They have no sense of urgency, no movement, and just seem to be all doing their own thing. Kane can only create so much. It's coming to that pont again, I may have to flip the channel or walk out of the room when they go on the PP.

And the 2 talking heads, refuse to criticize it. Only Konroyd has called them out for having a disasterous PP.

I'll tell you one thing that it should be about Leddy (in a good way) and that's getting the kid on the ice in OT for some of that PP time.

I would have been crazy to suggest that just one year ago but he's maturing quite a bit. He is really learning to see the crowd in front of the net and adjust his positioning to the better shooting lanes.

3:50 of OT PP time and there's your pfffffffft, JJ. It should never have gone to a SO. Clearly to me a team is not cup-worthy when that level talent cannot score ONE GOAL in nearly four minutes of 4-on-3 in sudden-death OT.

Leddy has sold me. He gets his shot through more times then not. I keep hearing media proclaim how great of a shot Seabrook has but he's very hesitant to shoot. Instead he's trying to force passes. You also have ZERO net presence. None. Nobody wants to sit in front of the net and take a beating or pop out into the slot. So unless you move it quickly, which they don't, or get a BS back door tap in, which the rest of the NHL strategizes against, this PP is doomed until these problems are fixed. The 4 on 3s were pathetic. Stagnant movement with tons of ice, and 20 ft slap shots aren't going to cut it. 99% of the goalies in the NHL are going to stop those.

Saad made a helluva move on the shoot out. He didn't elevate it or else it's a goal. I was surprised that Eddie O didn't know the rule on the morings having to come out COMPLETELY before the net is considered dislodged, but he's too busy giving shot outs, pimping Quebec junior tourneys, or god knows what else.

last night was a brief preview of what ails this team. Physicality. 1 handed poke checks to avoid contact, Keith, and running for your life, Oduya, led to numerous turnovers and tons of chances. Same thing that Phoenix did to them last spring.

Bickell was sensational. That's the Bickell we should EVERY night. He was by FAR the best forward. Saad had a strong game and has a Toews like workmanship with constantly moving his legs. He's doing the small things right, which is a great sign.

I will say...the idiotic penalties that Frolik takes are getting old. For what this guy earns, and what he was supposedly supposed to be, he's a solid PK guy who tries hard, but takes untimely penalties and couldn't hit the right side of a barn with his shot. He's a perfect candidate to flip to a team for a larger sized, grinding player, that they'll need come playoff time.

Lastly, Crawford...13 games and only can point to 1 game where he crapped himself, but he still righted the ship. Guy is showing confidence, and that's all you need in the NHL to be successful.
- SteveRain

How so? Fasth had the pad out, knew exactly where to go. Tip your cap to him, but Bonino made a "helluva" move that made Crawford look sick. And I think that was ALL Bonino. Saad gets that puck up, he has a shot to score on Fasth, but I wouldn't remotely call that a lights out move. Seemed pretty predictable actually.

I'll tell you one thing that it should be about Leddy (in a good way) and that's getting the kid on the ice in OT for some of that PP time.

I would have been crazy to suggest that just one year ago but he's maturing quite a bit. He is really learning to see the crowd in front of the net and adjust his positioning to the better shooting lanes.

3:50 of OT PP time and there's your pfffffffft, JJ. It should never have gone to a SO. Clearly to me a team is not cup-worthy when that level talent cannot score ONE GOAL in nearly four minutes of 4-on-3 in sudden-death OT.
- blackhawk24

No argument. I had a bad feeling going to OT.

No argument. I had a bad feeling going to OT.
- John Jaeckel

What's your opinion on Leddy getting OT PP time?

Anyone catch Steve Konroyd saying that Saad's goal sort of reminded him of Bobby Orr's goal to win the cup against St Louis.


- jhawk159

I did...and I just shook my head.

The kid is good...hell he may be great. The big difference is this isn't 2007-08 where they pimped Kane and Toews because they had a very limited following and a crap team. You have a strong following, and a solid team. So why do I need the immortal Brandon Saad shoved down my throat EVERY telecast? It's comical. It really is. The educated fans will understand what he brings. Hell, the t-shirt jersey mafia can see he creates chances. We don't need him pimped on us...ALL. DAY. LONG.

Mark my words: Viktor Fasth will be to the Ducks as Niemi was for us in 2010. Dude has ice water in his veins.

Cool. Now can we get back to complaining about the power play?!?!
- eburgio

Ask and ye shall receive! Found this little gem:

Both (Scotty) Bowman and (Mike) Keenan note that the secret to success in hockey—at regular strength or in specialty-team situations—boils down to “how quickly you can set up (on offense) or defend. How quickly you can turn a single advantage into success.

“The puck can change teams 400 times a game,” Keenan says, adding “and there’s nothing you can do about it.”

Except on the power play.

“You have two minutes to get a goal,” says Keenan. “Use the full two minutes.”

I submit to you, my Hockeybuzz friends, that this is the problem that I've been trying to relate. Nick Leddy is the ONLY guy on the PP that understands this notion of HOW QUICKLY YOU CAN SET UP ON OFFENSE translates into having a good chance to succeed offensively.

Go roll some tape of Keith and Seabrook and watch exactly the opposite. Slow in retrieving the puck and then totally unsure of what exactly to do after that. Do they skate up? Do they pass? Do they dump the puck in? Similarly, at the point, these same kinds of decisions must be made and must be made almost before the puck arrives on their blade. Do they shoot? Do they touch-pass or pass -- and if so, to where or whom? A good part of this is vision but it is also hockey instinct as well. Do they have a sense for where their teammates are going -- to what spot?

IMO, Duncan Keith has NONE of these instincts, beginning with coming out of our zone. And it shows in the play of the Unit 1 and once they DO get in the zone, they have little success because of all the decisions that must be made at the point.

Up here in Canada, after the game, on sportsnet or Tsn, they showed the video that the "war room" had, from the only angle that showed the puck crossing the line just prior to the yellow pegs coming ou of the ice. Prior to seeing that video, I did not think it was a goal. Had this replay been shown during the broadcast or in the arena post ruling, this would be a non issue.
- Sens2k5

The did show an angle that showed the puck crossing the line before the posts came out - an angle from the "half boards", if you will, a bit high up.

Leddy has sold me. He gets his shot through more times then not. I keep hearing media proclaim how great of a shot Seabrook has but he's very hesitant to shoot. Instead he's trying to force passes. You also have ZERO net presence. None. Nobody wants to sit in front of the net and take a beating or pop out into the slot. So unless you move it quickly, which they don't, or get a BS back door tap in, which the rest of the NHL strategizes against, this PP is doomed until these problems are fixed. The 4 on 3s were pathetic. Stagnant movement with tons of ice, and 20 ft slap shots aren't going to cut it. 99% of the goalies in the NHL are going to stop those.

Saad made a helluva move on the shoot out. He didn't elevate it or else it's a goal. I was surprised that Eddie O didn't know the rule on the morings having to come out COMPLETELY before the net is considered dislodged, but he's too busy giving shot outs, pimping Quebec junior tourneys, or god knows what else.

last night was a brief preview of what ails this team. Physicality. 1 handed poke checks to avoid contact, Keith, and running for your life, Oduya, led to numerous turnovers and tons of chances. Same thing that Phoenix did to them last spring.

Bickell was sensational. That's the Bickell we should EVERY night. He was by FAR the best forward. Saad had a strong game and has a Toews like workmanship with constantly moving his legs. He's doing the small things right, which is a great sign.

I will say...the idiotic penalties that Frolik takes are getting old. For what this guy earns, and what he was supposedly supposed to be, he's a solid PK guy who tries hard, but takes untimely penalties and couldn't hit the right side of a barn with his shot. He's a perfect candidate to flip to a team for a larger sized, grinding player, that they'll need come playoff time.

Lastly, Crawford...13 games and only can point to 1 game where he crapped himself, but he still righted the ship. Guy is showing confidence, and that's all you need in the NHL to be successful.
- SteveRain

+1
It's starting frighten me how much I agree with you.

When you win a stanley cup and still get fired....you have a major issue. Quenneville, much like Lovie Smith, is going to get fired because his loyalty to his assistants who have no business coaching, are going to kill this team.

There is NO excuse for a team that rolls out 10 talented guys on both units, to be this bad. They have no sense of urgency, no movement, and just seem to be all doing their own thing. Kane can only create so much. It's coming to that pont again, I may have to flip the channel or walk out of the room when they go on the PP.

And the 2 talking heads, refuse to criticize it. Only Konroyd has called them out for having a disasterous PP.
- SteveRain

Ditto.

How so? Fasth had the pad out, knew exactly where to go. Tip your cap to him, but Bonino made a "helluva" move that made Crawford look sick. And I think that was ALL Bonino. Saad gets that puck up, he has a shot to score on Fasth, but I wouldn't remotely call that a lights out move. Seemed pretty predictable actually.
- John Jaeckel

He had him down, but like Kane kept it on the ice. Both score if they elevate it. Hell, Toews was partially saved. Kane needs to go back to hs back hand move. Vrbata does the same move over and over and over again, and still scores. We all know 88 has sick skill, but just stick to what is successful.

I'll give you Stalberg if we are going to say "what if", but not Marcus Kruger. I haven't seen any evidence that Kruger has top 6 skill. Maybe he's resided in his role right now, but when Q signs off on moving Bolland up, and they plug Shaw into the 3rd role, that's a pretty telling sign.

Either way, I hate the shoot out. It's a joke. The aura of it, is over with. Give the OT loser a point, and go back to ties. It's taken away from penalty shots, that used to be exciting.

I'll say it may be time to move Toews down to the 3rd hole. I know it's nice to get out in front, but all 3 shoot out losses, they have lost in the 3 hole with Sharp air mailing the net twice, and Saad last night. The 3 hole is more important then leading off.

No, now I want to fight about people comparing Saad to Bobby Orr.

(kidding, but COME ON)


- John Jaeckel

I saw a few tweets on this last night, and proceeded to roll my eyes. Looked to me like Saad plays a little out of control at times.