Off topic anecdote time. I was once at a Cubs game during Kerry Wood's rookie season. Guys in the LF bleachers were taking bets on how many strikeouts he would get that game. As I was watching him warm up, and seemingly had zero control, bouncing pitches two to three feet in front of the catcher, I turned to my buddy and said, "I'm guessing one and that he gets rocked in the first inning." What happens? Woodie calmly goes out, strikes out 20 Astros and is a blown Kevin Olie grounder away from a no-no.

Point of the story: Sometimes gameday practice doesn't translate into gameday play.
- QStache

Except that it was against the Astros, possibly the best-pitched game in the history of baseball: not just one out away from a no-hitter, but one out away from a perfect game.

It's not really quantifiable, but when the other team has to keep their heads up in order to avoid getting crushed, they tend to not headhunt as much themselves. When one team comes out mashing people (see Vancouver, game 1, 2011 playoffs) they set a tone and they end up delivering all the punishment. Not always, hard to quantify, but the tone-setting thing—that the Hawks did so well in 2009 and 2010, is not to be discounted.
- John Jaeckel

I would agree with everything you said. I guess I was just approaching his thought from the angle of let's add some beef to take the game to them (much like you said setting the tone) and if that in some way acts as a deterrent for the opponent from running at the Hawks so be it. I'm much more interested in the effects gained by the Hawks pounding the opponents' D (much like we saw when Leddy was repeatedly hit last year) than if that protects our own players EDIT (because I really don't think it does).

I would agree with everything you said. I guess I was just approaching his thought from the angle of let's add some beef to take the game to them (much like you said setting the tone) and if that in some way acts as a deterrent for the opponent from running at the Hawks so be it. I'm much more interested in the effects gained by the Hawks pounding the opponents' D (much like we saw when Leddy was repeatedly hit last year) than if that protects our own players EDIT (because I really don't think it does).
- PhatJoeSki

And I also hear the argument some put forth that as a puck possession style team, the hawks don't need to hit people, because they're getting chased.

And then I say, in the playoffs, that all goes out the window. It truly is a war. It's also why I say adding defensive depth might have been the smartest thing Bowman did in the offseason because you might need to go 8 or 9 deep. And you want forwards who will punish your opponents' d-men. Wear them down, rattle them, make them cough the puck up. That's why I agree with paulr, this team could go undefeated in regulation through the regular season and still be short a banger or two upfront in the playoffs.

Bollig might play 5 minutes a game in the playoffs, if that. After him, who is really going to go on seek and destroy missions behind the enemy net like Eager, Brouwer, Ladd and Byfuglien did? Bickell? Frolik? I dunno man. I know we agree, I'm just underscoring the point.

This always makes me laugh. What would more physicality have done to prevent Hossa getting maimed by Torres? These aren't offensive linemen for skill players to hide behnd. It doesn't matter if you have 6 brutes that can put everyone on the other team into the third row, quit pretending like that puts a halo of safety around other the Hawks skill players..

No matter how many big guys you have on your team, no one can be protected on the ice from another player all the time. If you sent out Toews on a line with Probert and Domi you'd still have no guarantee that Toews won't get ran (legally or illegally). Torres almost killed Hossa with our toughest guy 10 feet from the collision.

I couldn't agree more that the Hawks could use another physical force up front but let's stop acting like adding toughness guarantees the safety of important skill players. The Hawks need a tough guy to punish the other team physically and disrupt play with the body and give them a net presence. I know what you are saying about providing a deterrent to taking liberties with stars, but that's more of just a nice thought than a reality. Look at teams who's physicality us Hawk fans have been jealous of: Philly, Boston, LAK, et al...that didn't prevent guys like Giroux and others from getting their eggs scrambled. I'm all for some more bangers in the Indianhead, but let's stick to quanitifiable reasons.
- PhatJoeSki

You may be right about Hossa's hit but do you really think Thornton would have got in more than 1 shot at head Toews' head, let alone had Pavelski join him had a more truculent player been on the ice? If two guys don’t use Toews’ head as a speed bag, Toews doesn’t miss the last 1/3 of the schedule and is available and healthy for the playoffs.

And I do not want a one dimensional goon. I want a player who can play and if necessary drop the gloves, not pretend they don’t see a teammate being pummeled and get away fast. And while I’m on that subject, nothing will break team chemistry, cohesion and morale more quickly than players who allow their teammate to take the beating Toews did.

You may be right about Hossa's hit but do you really think Thornton would have got in more than 1 shot at head Toews' head, let alone had Pavelski join him had a more truculent player been on the ice? If two guys don’t use Toews’ head as a speed bag, Toews doesn’t miss the last 1/3 of the schedule and is available and healthy for the playoffs.

And I do not want a one dimensional goon. I want a player who can play and if necessary drop the gloves, not pretend they don’t see a teammate being pummeled and get away fast. And while I’m on that subject, nothing will break team chemistry, cohesion and morale more quickly than players who allow their teammate to take the beating Toews did.
- paulr

As long as the Hawks hit when they can , drop the gloves when they Have to ala Mayers and Keith the team is light years ahead of last years team. I wont compare them to 2010 becaus ethats dumb. In todays free agent world comparing teams from different seasons sjould be just for fun, very hard to get any real data or info comapring past champions to teams that have only played 25% of the seasons games.

You may be right about Hossa's hit but do you really think Thornton would have got in more than 1 shot at head Toews' head, let alone had Pavelski join him had a more truculent player been on the ice? If two guys don’t use Toews’ head as a speed bag, Toews doesn’t miss the last 1/3 of the schedule and is available and healthy for the playoffs.

And I do not want a one dimensional goon. I want a player who can play and if necessary drop the gloves, not pretend they don’t see a teammate being pummeled and get away fast. And while I’m on that subject, nothing will break team chemistry, cohesion and morale more quickly than players who allow their teammate to take the beating Toews did.
- paulr

Thank you Sir!!!!!

It's not really quantifiable, but when the other team has to keep their heads up in order to avoid getting crushed, they tend to not headhunt as much themselves. When one team comes out mashing people (see Vancouver, game 1, 2011 playoffs) they set a tone and they end up delivering all the punishment. Not always, hard to quantify, but the tone-setting thing—that the Hawks did so well in 2009 and 2010, is not to be discounted.
- John Jaeckel

It really was never about the fighting. It was about hitting the other team enough with big bodies like Byfuglien, Ladd, and Brouwer, so that by the end of a 7 game series the other team was (a) tired and (b) less interested in laying a hard check on a teammate.

I think that was probably the piece of the 2010 that Stan Bowman both underappreciated and failed to replace. And that is the biggest piece that is missing from this team IMO. All the hitters (save Hjalmarsson and Seabrook) are gone and those are essential pieces in the playoffs, more so even than net presence IMO.

And I also hear the argument some put forth that as a puck possession style team, the hawks don't need to hit people, because they're getting chased.

And then I say, in the playoffs, that all goes out the window. It truly is a war. It's also why I say adding defensive depth might have been the smartest thing Bowman did in the offseason because you might need to go 8 or 9 deep. And you want forwards who will punish your opponents' d-men. Wear them down, rattle them, make them cough the puck up. That's why I agree with paulr, this team could go undefeated in regulation through the regular season and still be short a banger or two upfront in the playoffs.

Bollig might play 5 minutes a game in the playoffs, if that. After him, who is really going to go on seek and destroy missions behind the enemy net like Eager, Brouwer, Ladd and Byfuglien did? Bickell? Frolik? I dunno man. I know we agree, I'm just underscoring the point.
- John Jaeckel

I'd add that the only reason the Hawks were really able to do that sort of cycling of the puck in the 2010 playoffs was because they had hammered the other team in the first few games and then their speed and skating was capable of shining through.

The playoffs are a war of attrition and it hurts a helluva lot more to have a big body nail you repeatedly than the checks that the current Hawks team applies.

I'd add that the only reason the Hawks were really able to do that sort of cycling of the puck in the 2010 playoffs was because they had hammered the other team in the first few games and then their speed and skating was capable of shining through.

The playoffs are a war of attrition and it hurts a helluva lot more to have a big body nail you repeatedly than the checks that the current Hawks team applies.
- QStache

QStache, yet again, an early bid for post of the year.

I'd add that the only reason the Hawks were really able to do that sort of cycling of the puck in the 2010 playoffs was because they had hammered the other team in the first few games and then their speed and skating was capable of shining through.

The playoffs are a war of attrition and it hurts a helluva lot more to have a big body nail you repeatedly than the checks that the current Hawks team applies.
- QStache

This is good Qstache, If Bickell can put it together it would be a huge help during the playoffs. I also think Shaw is quietly becoming a pretty pivotal part to this team.

The Ducks have 3-4 very strong dudes in their top 6. Will pose a challenge for Q in terms of matching up.
- John Jaeckel

Unless he ignores matching up and just runs them out there like he has been.

After watching him in person for a few games, I'm gonna go ahead and say Derek Dorsett would be a fantastic add for the Hawks. And he probably wouldn't cost much either.

Unless he ignores matching up and just runs them out there like he has been.
- fattybeef

True. He really seems to have that luxury with his depth. Just saying, 2 of the Hawks' top 4 are not terribly big or physical (2 and 27).

After watching him in person for a few games, I'm gonna go ahead and say Derek Dorsett would be a fantastic add for the Hawks. And he probably wouldn't cost much either.
- yahoodi

Hawks tried to trade for him repeatedly last year. And I agree with you.

After watching him in person for a few games, I'm gonna go ahead and say Derek Dorsett would be a fantastic add for the Hawks. And he probably wouldn't cost much either.
- yahoodi

Stupid Penalty Taker. And every asset needs to be looked at differently bc he plays for columbus.

Going out on a short limb here, I'm saying Kane has a big night tonight.

Hawks tried to trade for him repeatedly last year. And I agree with you.
- John Jaeckel

I would rather get Brassard.

Stupid Penalty Taker. And every asset needs to be looked at differently bc he plays for columbus.
- nickmo2699

Nahh, he's a tough guy to play against.

I would rather get Brassard.
- nickmo2699

No doubt. Hawks asked about HIM, too!

No doubt. Hawks asked about HIM, too!
- John Jaeckel

Too much asking not enough proposing!!!!

I will be proven incorrect? No, I may be proven incorrect just as you may be.

The difference in the 2010 team and this one is that 2010 team was better balanced and deeper with exactly the components I refer to. That 2010 team had a balance of toughness, grit, speed and skill. This team is more top heavy in the skill department and has far less grit and toughness.

The 2010 could play any style including a dump and chase game, this year’s team not really.

The 2010 team could go hit for hit, punch for punch, speed for speed, skill for skill with any team in the league. This team can match skill and speed with any team but not physicality. Remember what brute force did to the Hawks, and specifically Toews and Hossa last year?

The 2010 team had some question marks but nowhere near as many as this team. That 2010 may have had the most balance and depth in terms of skill and grit of any team that has won the cup in the last decade.

So yes you may be correct and maybe SB does nothing other than cross his fingers and hopes for good health and that no one runs the Hawks out of the building. Or he may realize the team is pretty special and needs a few tweaks to give it better balance to give it a better chance to go all the way.
- paulr

Lotta that grit and toughness was absent that regular season...

That wasn't brute force that knocked out Toews and Hossa. Those were ass holes. Being tough did nothing for Philly, Pitt or NYR or STL or SJ. The hardest working team in the East with timely goaltending came through. LA was pretty much the same way though Brown wrecked what one of the Sedins? I wouldn't say they threw any cheap shots though they were just tenacious.

Throw them in the fire and see what happens. This Hawks team as built is well equipped to forecheck efficiently and score goals from at least 3 lines consistently. Should be enough to do some damage if they combine that with the right amount of luck and health.

Lotta that grit and toughness was absent that regular season...

That wasn't brute force that knocked out Toews and Hossa. Those were ass holes. Being tough did nothing for Philly, Pitt or NYR or STL or SJ. The hardest working team in the East with timely goaltending came through. LA was pretty much the same way though Brown wrecked what one of the Sedins? I wouldn't say they threw any cheap shots though they were just tenacious.

Throw them in the fire and see what happens. This Hawks team as built is well equipped to forecheck efficiently and score goals from at least 3 lines consistently. Should be enough to do some damage if they combine that with the right amount of luck and health.
- fattybeef

Agreed Fatty! But a little added sand paper wouldnt hurt either.

Too much asking not enough proposing!!!!
- nickmo2699

There were multiple discussions last year involving many players and prospects on both teams: Nash, Carter, Brassard, Methot and Dorsett, Stalberg, Hjalmarsson, Pirri, Saad (yes), and draft picks were all discussed in various proposals.

At one point, there were some rumors Brassard had been dealt to the Hawks (or close to it).

There were multiple discussions last year involving many players and prospects on both teams: Nash, Carter, Brassard, Methot and Dorsett, Stalberg, Hjalmarsson, Pirri, Saad (yes), and draft picks were all discussed in various proposals.

At one point, there were some rumors Brassard had been dealt to the Hawks (or close to it).
- John Jaeckel

You Kept this from us?

Having Toews-Brassard-Bolland down the middle would be tough to play against

Except that it was against the Astros, possibly the best-pitched game in the history of baseball: not just one out away from a no-hitter, but one out away from a perfect game.
- StLBravesFan

(A) The Astros were a really good team that year. They were right in the midst of the killer B's era and won over 100 games that season.

(B) I'm fairly certain it wouldn't have been a perfect game. My recollection is that Wood hit Biggio. Granted this is 15 years ago, but I'm fairly certain that there was at least that one HBP.