I agree with you. The trade was about need + surpluses on either team. I'm fine with the trade. The offensive struggles have little to do with the personnel and I don't think JVR would have made that big of a difference, especially considering a huge hole in the D would be open without Schenn on the team.
- NickTheKid87

See I'd have liked to kept Carle with Schenn in the mix now, but imagine if we didn't have Schenn and kept Carle. What would this thing look like? I'm not bashing Carle either just his game isn't bash brothers incorporated and you need some of that even in today's NHL. Those two would have been good linemates imo too btw.

I'd still prefer Schenn over Kadri. They have guys that are similar to Kadri on the roster. They needed defensive help. They obviously felt they could get a better puck mover in free agency.
- Jsaquella

I honestly think they were convinced that Carle was coming back for less than $5 million.

Not in my opinion, it doesn't. If you truly know why Schenn got beat on that play.
- MJL

A huge picture of "Luke Who" in the TO papers. A lot of talk about the trade today. How is it not a lightning rod?

And I'll bite - why did he get beat to the outside?

See I'd have liked to kept Carle with Schenn in the mix now, but imagine if we didn't have Schenn and kept Carle. What would this thing look like? I'm not bashing Carle either just his game isn't bash brothers incorporated and you need some of that even in today's NHL. Those two would have been good linemates imo too btw.
- JoeRussomanno

I would have loved to keep Carle but I would not have signing him to the contract he got from Tampa. That may have screwed the team over in the long run. Tampa can't get close to the cap ceiling anyway.

A huge picture of "Luke Who" in the TO papers. A lot of talk about the trade today. How is it not a lightning rod?

And I'll bite - why did he get beat to the outside?
- 77rams

I thought a bad turnover at the blue line led to it iirc. really don't feel like watching the replay, I'm starting to shake off the bad mood I was in.

Not in my opinion, it doesn't. If you truly know why Schenn got beat on that play.
- MJL

Why did he get beat?

The way I saw it, it was a quick break 2v2 and Schenn cheated toward the middle, reached to disrupt the pass and missed, JvR receives the pass and motors by a now out of position to defend Schenn who sprawls in a last ditch effort to break up the play. JvR used great speed and body position to go right by Schenn.

wow... Guess Murray wasn't lying when he made the choking remark.
- JoeRussomanno

I never understood why that comment was such a big deal. he didn't say they were choking, he simply said it was a choking situation.

A huge picture of "Luke Who" in the TO papers. A lot of talk about the trade today. How is it not a lightning rod?

And I'll bite - why did he get beat to the outside?
- 77rams

See my answer.. no other way to break that play down.

I honestly think they were convinced that Carle was coming back for less than $5 million.
- NickTheKid87

Or that they were really going to land Suter or Weber. Let's face it, any of those 3 and the defense looks really good on paper.

I would have loved to keep Carle but I would not have signing him to the contract he got from Tampa. That may have screwed the team over in the long run. Tampa can't get close to the cap ceiling anyway.
- NickTheKid87

you made me look it up b/c I forgot what he was paid. he's their highest paid dman holy smokes! Not sure he's worth that much either.

They have some smaller players, especially with Hartnell out, but they didn't even try to crash the net last night.

Also, Simmonds and Schenn scored most of their goals last year from within 5 feet of the net. They had little issue crashing the net then. Size isn't as important as sheer desire
- Jsaquella

I'll still take a hard working guy whose 6'3 220 over one whose 6'1 190 any day

Or that they were really going to land Suter or Weber. Let's face it, any of those 3 and the defense looks really good on paper.
- Jsaquella

I agree.. but the back up plan, or lack thereof, is what has me disappointed. I cant fault the guy for going big to get his players, but he went from Suter, Parise, and Weber to Foster, Gervais and Feds.

I never understood why that comment was such a big deal. he didn't say they were choking, he simply said it was a choking situation.
- nastyflyergirl

Just another personal, not a professional, decision made by the Flyer brass out of frustration at the time.

I never understood why that comment was such a big deal. he didn't say they were choking, he simply said it was a choking situation.
- nastyflyergirl

Because people really wanted to misinterpret that comment. Outrage is exciting!

I never understood why that comment was such a big deal. he didn't say they were choking, he simply said it was a choking situation.
- nastyflyergirl

Hate to pile on Lindros b/c I really did love him as a player, but I think that since he was the captain that kind of was taken as a shot across his bow. I didn't have a problem either, people get so mad when a question is asked and an actual answer not a pre-meditated one is given. Detroit was literally suffocating the flyers ala a choking situation, yes.

But Lindros was in his declining years. It was only a matter of time for him - perhaps as soon as any given shift.

JVR has a long career ahead of him and he'll only be getting better. He seems to have settled in nicely with TO, and that doesn't bother me at all. I'm hoping he becomes what we've all projected him to be while he was here.
- 77rams

I wasn't comparing Lindros and JVR as players at all.

I was making a point about not being all that upset that JVR scored on the Flyers last night.

The entire Lindros "thing", leading to the Rangers trade, and then, he dropped a hat trick on the Flyers felt like something to feel burned about as a fan than JVR (a good guy who caused no trouble here) scoring a meaningless goal in a blow out.

you made me look it up b/c I forgot what he was paid. he's their highest paid dman holy smokes! Not sure he's worth that much either.
- JoeRussomanno

It was a win win for him. He loved the area.. has connections there still, is going to a pretty talented team with a new GM who seems pretty serious about winning... and is getting paid.

A huge picture of "Luke Who" in the TO papers. A lot of talk about the trade today. How is it not a lightning rod?

And I'll bite - why did he get beat to the outside?
- 77rams

That's just media fodder! Really irrelevant.

Watch the replay, and watch how he positions himself as the Leafs are coming out of the zone on the counter attack. And look at the angle he takes as he's skating backwards. Watch between the Leafs blueline and the red line. That's where he was beaten. He's too far to Timonen's side. It's all about positioning. One or two strides off and your beat in this League. Regardless of how fast you skate. Forwards can skate a lot faster then d men can skate backwards. It's all about angles and reading plays. He actually made a nice effort to try and get back, but he couldn't get there. A lot of defenseman wouldn't be able to. If he's positioned right in the neutral zone. He easily cuts JVR off.

Why did he get beat?

The way I saw it, it was a quick break 2v2 and Schenn cheated toward the middle, reached to disrupt the pass and missed, JvR receives the pass and motors by a now out of position to defend Schenn who sprawls in a last ditch effort to break up the play. JvR used great speed and body position to go right by Schenn.
- jak521

Spot on. when he reached and missed it gave JVR that little bit of room outside to dip the shoulder and get around.

Because people really wanted to misinterpret that comment. Outrage is exciting!
- BulliesPhan87

LOUD NOISES!!!

When does the Flyers inability to put together a 60 minute effort land on the coaches shoulders?? I think it may be time to ask: Has this team tuned Lavy out?

I agree.. but the back up plan, or lack thereof, is what has me disappointed. I cant fault the guy for going big to get his players, but he went from Suter, Parise, and Weber to Foster, Gervais and Feds.
- jak521

There wasn't much left. Plan A was Suter, Plan B Weber, Plan C Carle, all of which fell through. He could've signed Colaiacovo but that dude is made of glass. Homer struck out swinging, not looking. It happens.

When does the Flyers inability to put together a 60 minute effort land on the coaches shoulders?? I think it may be time to ask: Has this team tuned Lavy out?
- BiggE

That's what I'm starting to get worried about. Lavy's a good coach, no doubt, but if the players aren't buying what he's selling, then you have to change. Don't want to make assumptions about what goes on in the locker room though.

I'll still take a hard working guy whose 6'3 220 over one whose 6'1 190 any day
- BiggE

So you'd take Tom Sestito over Brayden Schenn or Wayne Simmonds? Because he's 6'5" and 230. Talent is a factor, too.

Biggest difference up front is the loss of JvR and Jagr. I'll agree both were bigger player, but neither crashed the net with any regularity, either. If the Flyers had crashed the net last night, regardless of their perceived lack of size, they would have had a better chance for success.

I agree.. but the back up plan, or lack thereof, is what has me disappointed. I cant fault the guy for going big to get his players, but he went from Suter, Parise, and Weber to Foster, Gervais and Feds.
- jak521

Players have to be available for there to be a backup plan.