Now... how many of the teams with those players would trade them for Phaneuf???


- robin_steele264

Clearly, all of them would because Alphaneuf is master of the team stereo.

First of all, you've yet to show that there are more than 15 guys in the entire NHL better than him at D, so no, he's an average #1 at worst.

And can you not see that there is a world of difference between being a low-end #1 and a good #3?

Do yourself a favor and look "Hockey" up on Wikipedia.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Wikipedia said Phaneuf is bad at being a #1 defender.

There is no more than 1 or 2 on that list I would not trade Phaneuf for. I am not a big fan. I might like him better if he wasn't the captain.
- Aetherial

I'm with this guy. I'd like Phaneuf a lot more as an A or just a player.

Going back to what you said before about Niedermayer and Stevens, Phaneuf isn't good enough with or without the puck to be either type of guy. He can't carry it well enough to be the guy who controls the play and he doesn't have enough hockey IQ to be the defensively responsible one.

There are guys on the list there that can carry the puck and the play way better than Phaneuf and there are guys there that play way better defense. Phaneuf tries to do both but can't do it at a high enough level to be anywhere near the top defenders in the league and he hasn't been at that level in years.
- Two_For_Truth

I agree with you, but if you take that part of the game he shouldn't be doing and give it to someone who can, you'd love the results. Having Phaneuf and no quarterback is like having Kessel without a first line centre. It doesn't even have to be scott fricking niedermayer, it just has to be a fricking Kaberle (and by Kaberle I mean the one who scored points in the 90's and early 00's.)

Wikipedia said Phaneuf is bad at being a #1 defender.
- Two_For_Truth

True... check this out


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dion_Phaneuf

Who said he was useless? Nobody except you right now.

Is he wasting talent? He sure is. If Vanek was more physical, he'd play the game a lot better. Probably become a little bit more consistent too.

Ovechkin played with an edge for years and it worked better. Then he lost his edge and now he doesn't score as much. Big surprise.

You take a two equally talented guys who are 5'10" and 6"4" and tell the bigger player not to use his size. What's the difference? A reach advantage? Weight advantage? Get that same 6'4" player to use his size in every way possible and now you have a distinct advantage.

I can't believe this needs to be explained; that a player who uses his size advantage is better because of it. It's unbelievable.
- Two_For_Truth

he'd probably be hurt alot more to.

you can't yap at JVR for being hurt all the time, and then knock him for not being physical enough. it doesn't work both ways.

So if the Leafs traded phaneuf for marc staal, you'd be happy?
If the Leafs traded Phaneuf for Markov, you'd be happy?
If the Leafs traded Phaneuf for Brent Burns, you'd be happy?

Do that with every player on the list, insert them into our lineup and tell me you'd be happy.

I'm not a Phaneuf fan, never was, always thought he was overated even when he was a norris candidate. I prefer the Rafalski's, the Gardiners, the Coffeys, the fast d-men. But I do believe guys like Phaneuf, when with the right guys do exceptionally well. We saw it with Kaberle and McCabe.
- mykokes

Phaneuf is still overrated by some people. He's the best guy in Toronto by default. But if you're talking about a legit #1 guy, or winning a Cup, he's not the guy for the job. You would have to pair him up with somebody exceptional to cover up for his mistakes because A) he prefers the puck on his stick and B) he's not good enough defensively to cover for somebody else who likes to free wheel.

I'm with this guy. I'd like Phaneuf a lot more as an A or just a player.
- Compeyson

Or he made 3 million less a year.

True... check this out


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dion_Phaneuf
- robin_steele264

Interesting, In junior hockey, Phaneuf was known not only for his physical presence, but also his calm demeanour and offensive ability. He was compared to Hockey Hall of Famer Scott Stevens by his former coach, Brent Sutter.[7] Scouts praised his defensive ability, and the poise he showed at both ends of the ice.[7

Wonder what happened?

I'm with this guy. I'd like Phaneuf a lot more as an A or just a player.
- Compeyson

His captaincy is a whole different issue. Definitely shouldn't have been captain that quickly or even now.

Now... how many of the teams with those players would trade them for Phaneuf???


- robin_steele264

The problem is when you are talking about a trade there are other considerations like age, contract, upside ...

They are not all better than Phaneuf right now, but most GM's of those players would probably not trade them for Phaneuf, if I had to guess.

Interesting, In junior hockey, Phaneuf was known not only for his physical presence, but also his calm demeanour and offensive ability. He was compared to Hockey Hall of Famer Scott Stevens by his former coach, Brent Sutter.
- mykokes[7] Scouts praised his defensive ability, and the poise he showed at both ends of the ice.[7

Wonder what happened?

First line prefaces all of that though.

Phaneuf is still overrated by some people. He's the best guy in Toronto by default. But if you're talking about a legit #1 guy, or winning a Cup, he's not the guy for the job. You would have to pair him up with somebody exceptional to cover up for his mistakes because A) he prefers the puck on his stick and B) he's not good enough defensively to cover for somebody else who likes to free wheel.
- Two_For_Truth

I sometimes think he prefers the puck on his stick because the team struggles and he wants to do too much. When we're winning, and he's notching points, he's not running around like a meathead. He's doing little things right, which in turn keeps in a position to actually shoot the puck and put it on net.

I blame Elisha Cuthbert and Sean Avery Std's for Phaneuf's poor play.

I agree with you, but if you take that part of the game he shouldn't be doing and give it to someone who can, you'd love the results. Having Phaneuf and no quarterback is like having Kessel without a first line centre. It doesn't even have to be scott fricking niedermayer, it just has to be a fricking Kaberle (and by Kaberle I mean the one who scored points in the 90's and early 00's.)
- mykokes

Phaneuf refuses to do that. Phaneuf demands he carries the puck. You can see it in his style. If you took that away from him (maybe something they tried in Calgary) he would be one unhappy Frankeneuf.

I agree with you, he should stick to defense in 5 on 5 situations and worry about scoring on the PP. But he doesn't. He refuses to do so. All you can really do is put somebody defensively capable enough to cover up his screw ups.

The problem is when you are talking about a trade there are other considerations like age, contract, upside ...

They are not all better than Phaneuf right now, but most GM's of those players would probably not trade them for Phaneuf, if I had to guess.
- Aetherial

Wonder what Dion and his agent will be thinking when its time for a new contract....

he'd probably be hurt alot more to.

you can't yap at JVR for being hurt all the time, and then knock him for not being physical enough. it doesn't work both ways.
- joel878

If he's brittle, he's brittle. Maybe he could get stronger so playing more physical wouldn't hurt him. But this is hockey. If a guy his size won't crash and bang, somebody else will. And more often than not, the big guys who are willing to crash and bang, come out on top.

Interesting, In junior hockey, Phaneuf was known not only for his physical presence, but also his calm demeanour and offensive ability. He was compared to Hockey Hall of Famer Scott Stevens by his former coach, Brent Sutter.
- mykokes[7] Scouts praised his defensive ability, and the poise he showed at both ends of the ice.[7

Wonder what happened?

He ran into tougher, smarter competition in the NHL.

Wonder what Dion and his agent will be thinking when its time for a new contract....
- robin_steele264

I think Dion tries his luck in Hollywood, not even lying. I bet he takes a year off and tries to start some sort of action hero career.

Wonder what Dion and his agent will be thinking when its time for a new contract....
- robin_steele264

Philly will give him 7M.

Philly will give him 7M.
- mykokes

wowza

Wonder what Dion and his agent will be thinking when its time for a new contract....
- robin_steele264

I hope the Leafs are thinking trade before that happens... there is no way I would want to give him what he will undoubtedly get from *some* team out there.

He ran into tougher, smarter competition in the NHL.
- Two_For_Truth

The 2008–09 season was a frustrating one for Phaneuf, as he recorded a career low 11 goals and 47 points,[5] and his poor plus/minus rating of −11 led fans to question his defensive commitment.[27] His poor season and high salary also led to speculation that Phaneuf might be traded. .[28] In spite of his struggles, Phaneuf averaged 26 minutes and 31 seconds of ice time per game, fourth highest in the league.[27] He missed the final game of the Flames quarter-final series against the Chicago Blackhawks with broken ribs,[29] after battling a hip injury during the season

I think he was too busy boinking Elisha, then to actually put in the work in rehabbing his hip injury. Which was probably caused by Sean Avery Std's.

I sometimes think he prefers the puck on his stick because the team struggles and he wants to do too much. When we're winning, and he's notching points, he's not running around like a meathead. He's doing little things right, which in turn keeps in a position to actually shoot the puck and put it on net.

I blame Elisha Cuthbert and Sean Avery Std's for Phaneuf's poor play.
- mykokes

Offensively, he's not smart at all. He shoots only for the top two corners. He absolutely refuses to shoot low and hard. Creates very few rebounds for the guys near the net or a rebound off the boards. He also loves to do his Bobby Orr runs which ends up putting him behind the net with no scoring chance to speak of.

wowza
- robin_steele264

Wait, is the cap getting rolled back? If so, then 6.75M. If not...7M, just based on GM's being idiots. Nonis is too conservative to hand out that much. And really, he's not the one who made Phaneuf captain, so what does he have to lose.

The 2008–09 season was a frustrating one for Phaneuf, as he recorded a career low 11 goals and 47 points,
- mykokes[5] and his poor plus/minus rating of −11 led fans to question his defensive commitment.[27] His poor season and high salary also led to speculation that Phaneuf might be traded. .[28] In spite of his struggles, Phaneuf averaged 26 minutes and 31 seconds of ice time per game, fourth highest in the league.[27] He missed the final game of the Flames quarter-final series against the Chicago Blackhawks with broken ribs,[29] after battling a hip injury during the season

I think he was too busy boinking Elisha, then to actually put in the work in rehabbing his hip injury. Which was probably caused by Sean Avery Std's.

hmmm dont think averys stds would stop me from going down that hole either