But, wait.

You insisted we lost the Schenn trade.

You're getting cut up over trading a #4 d-man for a top line winger?
- Leeman4Gilmour

It must be hell inside his head.

JVR walking Schenn and burying the puck sums up that trade perfectly. Philly is dumb.

You're done reading up on d-men already? Good, hopefully you understood it. Now more homework, go look up Scott Niedermayer (category 1) or the guys that typically run the play and carry the puck up the ice (quarterback the play for short) and Scott Stevens (category 2), guys with the big shot and support and benefit from the guy carrying the puck. Guys like Erik Karlsson today, and Ryan Suter fit into category 1. Guys like Weber and Phaneuf fall into category 2. And for those not old enough to remember, for his first 10 years in the league, Scott Stevens had a bomb from the point, could hit like a truck and was the furthest thing from a stay at home d-man there was. He was literally Shea Weber. There is a third category, the stay at home, that the latter day Scott Stevens and Adam Foote were a part of.
- mykokes

The only two things that make Phaneuf and Stevens similar is the shot and the physicality. Phaneuf doesn't even have a fraction of the defensive awareness or capabilities of Stevens. That's where you are making the mistake. And so is Phaneuf. Phaneuf thinks he's more like Niedermayer. You can see it in the way he makes his decisions with the puck. He loves to rush forward and put himself behind the opposition net. This is why Phaneuf needs to be the guy who controls the play. That's his style. The problem is, he's not that great at it and he makes a lot of mistakes. This is why he's a #3 guy and it's why he needs a defensive guy to cover up his screw ups.

[quote=lightz39JVR walking Schenn and burying the puck sums up that trade perfectly. Philly is dumb.

In the park??

It must be hell inside his head.
- tmlfan69

Gunnar is good. But Schenn is better. But Phaneuf is better than Schenn.

But Phaneuf sucks.

But Schenn isn't THAT good, after all. But we lost the trade when we only got a top line winger for him...

But...

But...

But...

But, wait.

You insisted we lost the Schenn trade.

You're getting cut up over trading a #4 d-man for a top line winger?
- Leeman4Gilmour

Read what is there. I said he's at worst a #4 defender. Give him a coach who isn't Ron Wilson and get him to focus on his skating rather than getting bigger every year and he's a lot more than that.

It's also funny how you have already knighted van Riemsdyk as a top line winger after 13 games. Just call him Cam van Riemsdyk or Wendel van Riemsdyk like you want to.

And yet he was on the olympic team.
- mykokes

Only because somebody got injured. And he sucked. Horribly.

The only two things that make Phaneuf and Stevens similar is the shot and the physicality. Phaneuf doesn't even have a fraction of the defensive awareness or capabilities of Stevens. That's where you are making the mistake. And so is Phaneuf. Phaneuf thinks he's more like Niedermayer. You can see it in the way he makes his decisions with the puck. He loves to rush forward and put himself behind the opposition net. This is why Phaneuf needs to be the guy who controls the play. That's his style. The problem is, he's not that great at it and he makes a lot of mistakes. This is why he's a #3 guy and it's why he needs a defensive guy to cover up his screw ups.
- Two_For_Truth

Curious, are you going to admit you're U_G?

I wonder if a mod could check the IP.

The only two things that make Phaneuf and Stevens similar is the shot and the physicality. Phaneuf doesn't even have a fraction of the defensive awareness or capabilities of Stevens. That's where you are making the mistake. And so is Phaneuf. Phaneuf thinks he's more like Niedermayer. You can see it in the way he makes his decisions with the puck. He loves to rush forward and put himself behind the opposition net. This is why Phaneuf needs to be the guy who controls the play. That's his style. The problem is, he's not that great at it and he makes a lot of mistakes. This is why he's a #3 guy and it's why he needs a defensive guy to cover up his screw ups.
- Two_For_Truth

Stevens career went the same way as Steve Yzermans, a tale of litterally two careers. Throughout his 20's he was a loose cannon on the backend, and it was that way until his late 20's early 30's that that defensive awareness you speak of started to show up.

Only because somebody got injured. And he sucked. Horribly.
- Two_For_Truth

So did Pronger on that big ice lol

Still waiting for those 60 names.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Oh right, great logic. If a guy is on the worst team but plays the most minutes, it must mean he's a legit #1 guy. Bozak is a legit 1st line center too then.

Read what is there. I said he's at worst a #4 defender. Give him a coach who isn't Ron Wilson and get him to focus on his skating rather than getting bigger every year and he's a lot more than that.

It's also funny how you have already knighted van Riemsdyk as a top line winger after 13 games. Just call him Cam van Riemsdyk or Wendel van Riemsdyk like you want to.
- Two_For_Truth

So, what is Schenn AT BEST?

Because you admitted that Phaneuf is still comfortably better.

So, is Schenn a #3 at best? A #2?

So wouldn't that make Phaneuf a 1-2?

Still waiting for that list of 60 names...

Stevens career went the same way as Steve Yzermans, a tale of litterally two careers. Throughout his 20's he was a loose cannon on the backend, and it was that way until his late 20's early 30's that that defensive awareness you speak of started to show up.
- mykokes

Phaneuf is already starting to make some plays that make me smile. He is good with his stick and is learning to stay back more. It will come. You have to remember we have thrown pretty much every rookie and plug we have with him. 30 minutes a night with an unreliable partner vs the best lines in hockey isn't an easy task. I'd like to see Fraser with him, but he is making Franson too good of a player to split them up.

Read what is there. I said he's at worst a #4 defender. Give him a coach who isn't Ron Wilson and get him to focus on his skating rather than getting bigger every year and he's a lot more than that.

It's also funny how you have already knighted van Riemsdyk as a top line winger after 13 games. Just call him Cam van Riemsdyk or Wendel van Riemsdyk like you want to.
- Two_For_Truth

I still don't get the hate for JVR, are we not cheering for the same team, do you not want the player to succeed on the team you cheer for? I don't get it.

Oh right, great logic. If a guy is on the worst team but plays the most minutes, it must mean he's a legit #1 guy. Bozak is a legit 1st line center too then.
- Two_For_Truth

Okay, let's try to new angle: Give me the teams where Phaneuf isn't the #1.

Give me the teams where he isn't even a #2.

New wrinkle in the Reimer/Kipper saga... Kipper was able to play after his injury, while Reimer had to be helped off the ice, looked much more serious.


Also, If the injury is longer is worse than expected, Khabibulin could be a potential target for the Leafs.

Check with Cloutier for a price tag on that one.

I still don't get the hate for JVR, are we not cheering for the same team, do you not want the player to succeed on the team you cheer for? I don't get it.
- LeafMan

JVR was a steal. I honest to god though we moved Schenn and our first for him when I heard about it. I had to shake my head.

We basically replaced Schenn in every way with a scrap piece Fraser. Hes tough, hes smart, hes simple and he isn't -1072.

The only two things that make Phaneuf and Stevens similar is the shot and the physicality. Phaneuf doesn't even have a fraction of the defensive awareness or capabilities of Stevens. That's where you are making the mistake. And so is Phaneuf. Phaneuf thinks he's more like Niedermayer. You can see it in the way he makes his decisions with the puck. He loves to rush forward and put himself behind the opposition net. This is why Phaneuf needs to be the guy who controls the play. That's his style. The problem is, he's not that great at it and he makes a lot of mistakes. This is why he's a #3 guy and it's why he needs a defensive guy to cover up his screw ups.
- Two_For_Truth

And I think you're going to see this year neither is Weber, unless someone like Ellis can fill the void left behind by Suter.

As for Phaneuf, if you find a guy who can do all that, Phaneuf will put up the numbers he used to. Anyways, home time, and Robin, sorry for being a Richard, but you know damn well what I meant by a quarterback.

Curious, are you going to admit you're U_G?

I wonder if a mod could check the IP.
- tmlfan69

Hmmm, being ignored. I think I got my answer.

New wrinkle in the Reimer/Kipper saga... Kipper was able to play after his injury, while Reimer had to be helped off the ice, looked much more serious.


Also, If the injury is longer is worse than expected, Khabibulin could be a potential target for the Leafs.

Check with Cloutier for a price tag on that one.



- robin_steele264

Conditional 7th? The condition being he shows up sober.

New wrinkle in the Reimer/Kipper saga... Kipper was able to play after his injury, while Reimer had to be helped off the ice, looked much more serious.


Also, If the injury is longer is worse than expected, Khabibulin could be a potential target for the Leafs.

Check with Cloutier for a price tag on that one.



- robin_steele264

Kipper has stronger MCL's (E5)

Curious, are you going to admit you're U_G?

I wonder if a mod could check the IP.
- tmlfan69

We all know who it is.

I still don't get the hate for JVR, are we not cheering for the same team, do you not want the player to succeed on the team you cheer for? I don't get it.
- LeafMan

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Aka

Expecting UG to change his opinion or acknowledge anyone elses opinion.

We all know who it is.
- LeafMan

So my question is - why is he allowed back if he's perma banned? I believe it even says that creating a new user id to get around banning means perma banning?

I'm just curious.

Read what is there. I said he's at worst a #4 defender. Give him a coach who isn't Ron Wilson and get him to focus on his skating rather than getting bigger every year and he's a lot more than that.

It's also funny how you have already knighted van Riemsdyk as a top line winger after 13 games. Just call him Cam van Riemsdyk or Wendel van Riemsdyk like you want to.
- Two_For_Truth

JVR hasn't done enough to label him a first line winger at this time. But Schenn hasn't done nearly enough to label him a first pairing dman either. I think he can be a pretty damn good shutdown guy eventually, but it's hard to ignore that JVR has played much better in his 13 game stretch as a Leaf than any 13 game stretch that Schenn ever put together in his entire career. Call it coaching, blame that he's a forward not a dman, whatever you want, but they're getting more out of JVR right now than they ever got out of Schenn, and that makes the trade a win from a Leaf standpoint. If Philly is happy with Schenn then great, it's a win/win, but the Leaf side of the equation is undoubtedly a win, thus far, and hopefully will be in the future. Knocking the trade now is just crazy.