so hitting is a talent?
- bobbyisno1

Being 6'3" and 200+ pounds is a natural gift. It's an advantage that is going to waste.

Clb fires howson

I am sure that this horse trains like a mother(frank)er, but if you want to impress me, remove the horse and lets see that little midget on his back make the jump...
- ShootingSemin

I'd watch it. Maybe change the horse to a lion, and have them running from it?

That's just off the top of my head. There are plenty of others who can either put up better numbers or play better defense.

What you're trying to prove here is that even if Phaneuf is the 30th best defender in the league, then therefore he's good enough to be a #1 defender for the Leafs. Sorry, but that doesn't make any damn sense. If the point is for the Leafs to be able to win something meaningful, like a Cup, Phaneuf has to be the type of #1 defender that can be compared to the best in the league. You can drum up his days in Calgary all you want but the fact is those days are gone. He's not a Norris candidate anymore and he hasn't been for years. The reason for that is because his offensive game is a fraction of what it use to be and his defensive game is usually a mess.

This is the same as saying David Legwand is a legit #1 center because he was 27th in scoring among centers last year. Oh well, he's in the top 30, he must be good enough to be a #1 center!
- Two_For_Truth

give it up UG everybody thinks he's a good defenseman, you on the other hand think that everybody on the Leafs suck

I do wonder what happens if the Oilers lose tonight. Do you slot them back in? Is that a tail-between-the-legs type of move?
- Leeman4Gilmour

They'll get back in but its a pretty clear message that no one gets a free pass.

I like it.

I do wonder what happens if the Oilers lose tonight. Do you slot them back in? Is that a tail-between-the-legs type of move?
- Leeman4Gilmour

Double double

And your justification that Phaneuf is a #1 defender is that as long as he's good enough to be #1 on the 30th placed team, he's great and a legit #1 guy. Right.

Karlsson, Chara, Edler, Pietrangelo, Weber, Boyle, Suter, Letang, Keith, Seabrook, Doughty, Staal, Girardi, McDonagh, Yandle just to name a few are all better than Phaneuf in at least one capacity, if not both offensively and defensively.
- Two_For_Truth

we're not in 30th place. You keep saying that, and each and everyr time you'll be corrected....as for your list, McDonagh? really? Staal? really? dude, you're reaching.

And when he isn't producing? Then it's just fine if he doesn't hit guys? Then he should start? Only when he doesn't produce? It's impossible to produce and be more physical?

A big player who doesn't hit is like a player who can shoot the puck 100 mph but doesn't do it because he prefers snap shots. Waste of talent.
- Two_For_Truth

The NHL's leading pts getter is useless.

we're not in 30th place. You keep saying that, and each and everyr time you'll be corrected....as for your list, McDonagh? really? Staal? really? dude, you're reaching.
- mykokes

well he does play on a contender so must be better

Clb fires howson
- burn

Enter Burke....

we're not in 30th place. You keep saying that, and each and everyr time you'll be corrected....as for your list, McDonagh? really? Staal? really? dude, you're reaching.
- mykokes

His argument is that as long as Phaneuf is in the top 30 (even if that means 30th) that he's a #1 defender. What's the point of being the worst #1 defender in the league? Isn't the point to be one of the best #1 defenders in the league so that your team has a chance to actually win something? Phaneuf is not capable of being one of the best #1 defenders in the league and hasn't been for years.

Everybody loves to mention how Phaneuf plays so many minutes and shuts down players and yet McDonagh and Staal have done that for the Rangers far better than Phaneuf ever has.

Kostka and Holzer may be AHL'ers... But they are playing like NHL'ers... So maybe they are actually NHL'ers now?
- Arctic_AARDVARK

no no no ... you don't the understand the negative nancy toronto press and Damien Cox's surrogate or love child (otherwise known as Unholy "large five hole" Goalie")...
other teams develop talent in the AHL... say for example David Desharnais.... who of course is (or was last year) a god in Montreal... similar to Emelin and yadda yadda yadda other organizations.. Buffalo with Foligno... the list is almost endless. Those organizations are praised for their development programs.

However, when the Leafs do it and the guy who is brought up doesn't score like Gretzky or defend like Neidermeier inside of first five games - he's a bust, and the organization is massively overrating his talent.

so in short - this is the reason that guys like Kostka, Fraser or Holzer are career AHLer's ... because very knowledgeable hockey minds, such as Berger, Cox, Simmonds and all-world GM Unholy Doinkus have said so.

So, 15 guys in the NHL better than Phaneuf (if we accept your questionable list as 100% accurate) and he's an average/mediocre #3?



Run along now and go make sure your mint condition Jiri Tlusty rookie card is still safe in its climate controlled case.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Why bother argue with him? Look at my location, thats all you need to know about UG

His argument is that as long as Phaneuf is in the top 30 (even if that means 30th) that he's a #1 defender. What's the point of being the worst #1 defender in the league? Isn't the point to be one of the best #1 defenders in the league so that your team has a chance to actually win something? Phaneuf is not capable of being one of the best #1 defenders in the league and hasn't been for years.

Everybody loves to mention how Phaneuf plays so many minutes and shuts down players and yet McDonagh and Staal have done that for the Rangers far better than Phaneuf ever has.
- Two_For_Truth

did someone put vinegar in your formula as a child? or did your parents drop you often?
just wondering...

Anyone see this little piece?

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=415844

one, but is he a Leaf fan
- bobbyisno1

If by chance the Leafs don't make the playoffs, than I'm not looking forward to this person's posts. The posts will probably say: I TOLD U GUYS THEY SUCK, TOLD U GUYS THEY SHOULD HAVE BLOWN UP THE TEAM IN THE SUMMNER,

That's just off the top of my head. There are plenty of others who can either put up better numbers or play better defense.

What you're trying to prove here is that even if Phaneuf is the 30th best defender in the league, then therefore he's good enough to be a #1 defender for the Leafs. Sorry, but that doesn't make any damn sense. If the point is for the Leafs to be able to win something meaningful, like a Cup, Phaneuf has to be the type of #1 defender that can be compared to the best in the league. You can drum up his days in Calgary all you want but the fact is those days are gone. He's not a Norris candidate anymore and he hasn't been for years. The reason for that is because his offensive game is a fraction of what it use to be and his defensive game is usually a mess.

This is the same as saying David Legwand is a legit #1 center because he was 27th in scoring among centers last year. Oh well, he's in the top 30, he must be good enough to be a #1 center!
- Two_For_Truth

A) It's all off the top of your head. So little thought goes into any of your knee-jerk contrarian BS that to say it comes "of the top of my head" is incredibly generous.

B) If you're going to suggest Phaneuf isn't an number one defenseman, you should probably demonstrate how he falls outside the average. I'd call the average the middle 10-20 teams in the league.

It follows that if there aren't 20 teams where Phaneuf isn't a #1, then he is, in fact, an average #1.

Likewise, if there aren't 20 teams where he isn't the second best, then he is an average #2.

What you haven't come remotely close to proving is that he's a mediocre #3, which was your original claim.

C) Regarding Legwand, his track record shows that he is a high end #2 center. One year when he barely broke into the top 30 in scoring says very little about his overall standing in the league.

The NHL's leading pts getter is useless.
- burn

Who said he was useless? Nobody except you right now.

Is he wasting talent? He sure is. If Vanek was more physical, he'd play the game a lot better. Probably become a little bit more consistent too.

Ovechkin played with an edge for years and it worked better. Then he lost his edge and now he doesn't score as much. Big surprise.

You take a two equally talented guys who are 5'10" and 6"4" and tell the bigger player not to use his size. What's the difference? A reach advantage? Weight advantage? Get that same 6'4" player to use his size in every way possible and now you have a distinct advantage.

I can't believe this needs to be explained; that a player who uses his size advantage is better because of it. It's unbelievable.

His argument is that as long as Phaneuf is in the top 30 (even if that means 30th) that he's a #1 defender. What's the point of being the worst #1 defender in the league? Isn't the point to be one of the best #1 defenders in the league so that your team has a chance to actually win something? Phaneuf is not capable of being one of the best #1 defenders in the league and hasn't been for years.

Everybody loves to mention how Phaneuf plays so many minutes and shuts down players and yet McDonagh and Staal have done that for the Rangers far better than Phaneuf ever has.
- Two_For_Truth

how does being a no1 defender on the last place team make you the 30th best defender? is it his fault that the team is in that place? so the the no1 center on that team is also the 30th best center?

What you haven't come remotely close to proving is that he's a mediocre #3, which was your original claim.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Not reading things closely again. Big surprise.

Regarding Legwand, his track record shows that he is a high end #2 center. One year when he barely broke into the top 30 in scoring says very little about his overall standing in the league.

But Phaneuf, the guy who either doesn't put up points or puts up points and is a huge defensive failure, is some how a legit #1 defender even though he hasn't really been up there in six years, when he was in Calgary.

Sure thing.

What's funny here is that you're just dying to prove that Phaneuf is a #1 defender. You don't care at all if he's an average or completely crap #1 defender, as long as you scrape something together to say he's #1.

Who said he was useless? Nobody except you right now.

Is he wasting talent? He sure is. If Vanek was more physical, he'd play the game a lot better. Probably become a little bit more consistent too.

Ovechkin played with an edge for years and it worked better. Then he lost his edge and now he doesn't score as much. Big surprise.

You take a two equally talented guys who are 5'10" and 6"4" and tell the bigger player not to use his size. What's the difference? A reach advantage? Weight advantage? Get that same 6'4" player to use his size in every way possible and now you have a distinct advantage.

I can't believe this needs to be explained; that a player who uses his size advantage is better because of it. It's unbelievable.
- Two_For_Truth

there are other ways to use your size other than hitting, look at Sundin

The NHL's leading pts getter is useless.
- burn

Who said he was useless? Nobody except you right now.

Is he wasting talent? He sure is. If Vanek was more physical, he'd play the game a lot better. Probably become a little bit more consistent too.

Ovechkin played with an edge for years and it worked better. Then he lost his edge and now he doesn't score as much. Big surprise.

You take a two equally talented guys who are 5'10" and 6"4" and tell the bigger player not to use his size. What's the difference? A reach advantage? Weight advantage? Get that same 6'4" player to use his size in every way possible and now you have a distinct advantage.

I can't believe this needs to be explained; that a player who uses his size advantage is better because of it. It's unbelievable.
- Two_For_Truth

Have you ever considered that if Vanek tried to play like Neely, his body might break down and his scoring (the job Buffalo needs him to do) might suffer?

Crosby doesn't play like Wendel Clark. To you honestly believe he'd be better off if he tried to do something so beyond his natural element?

how does being a no1 defender on the last place team make you the 30th best defender? is it his fault that the team is in that place? so the the no1 center on that team is also the 30th best center?
- bobbyisno1

There are plenty of guys in the NHL who are #1 by default. It doesn't make them good at what they do. Phaneuf is a #1 defender by default in Toronto. Doesn't mean he's a good #1 defender, especially when you consider what a legit #1 is and should be.

Who said he was useless? Nobody except you right now.

Is he wasting talent? He sure is. If Vanek was more physical, he'd play the game a lot better. Probably become a little bit more consistent too.

Ovechkin played with an edge for years and it worked better. Then he lost his edge and now he doesn't score as much. Big surprise.

You take a two equally talented guys who are 5'10" and 6"4" and tell the bigger player not to use his size. What's the difference? A reach advantage? Weight advantage? Get that same 6'4" player to use his size in every way possible and now you have a distinct advantage.

I can't believe this needs to be explained; that a player who uses his size advantage is better because of it. It's unbelievable.
- Two_For_Truth

Hmmm
Two_For_Truth]And when he isn't producing? Then it's just fine if he doesn't hit guys? Then he should start? Only when he doesn't produce? It's impossible to produce and be more physical?

A big player who doesn't hit is like a player who can shoot the puck 100 mph but doesn't do it because he prefers snap shots. Waste of talent.