the part you missed

after the hit gionta skated directly at orr and looked like he had every intention of engaging him

at the last second he seemed to realize what he was doing and decided to not drop his gloves and stick but put it up into Orr's face. it basically amounts to goading the guy into a fight.. it happens so fast out on the ice.. and orr had every reason to believe gionta was coming at him

and who knows what might of been said out there as well. thats something we dont get to be privy to.
- Dozzer

Two points:

- as per my original post, whether or not I agree or disagree with what Orr did, I am still suprised that it isn't the topic of discussion over the Grabbo "alleged" incident.

- I'm still going to go with my somewhat weird logic on this one: if a goon approaches Orr, he can drop his gloves as soon as he wants. If a skilled player approaches, Orr can't make the first move.

I realize my line of thinking is somewhat Cherry-esque, but what I can I say: I'm a sucker for a man in a nice suit.

yup, the leafs have enough offensive D in the lineup

they needed tough guys.. basically guys who can actually do the job komi was supposed to do.
- Dozzer

for the first time in many years, it just seems the guys are playing like a "team", holding each other accountable, and protecting each other.... this is new territory when it comes to this team

If JVR lives up to his potential, or at least shows up to the majority of games, it's a win.

I think it's still closer than most Leafs fans would want to admit.
- Feeling Glucky?

The Flyers defense is a huge weakness and I'd hate to think how bad they would be if they had JvR and not Schenn this year...They really need a #1...

not true at all

he moved lombardi out of town and demoted connolly opening up roster spots for younger guys

both pretty minor moves at the time.. but as it turns out, they were actually quite effective.
- Dozzer

I'm fairly sure that both Frattin and Kadri would have been here under Burke, as well.

They were probably looking at some way to move Lombardi for a while, even before Nonis officially took over.

You right, but in fairness, lots of people, including me, said in the summer that those were obvious moves to make and Burke most likely would have done the same thing.
- Aquaman_2400

i wonder about that.

burke is fiercely loyal to his signings and trade assets.

anyways, its in the past, and the guy in charge did what needed to be done

Look for a big game from MacArthur tonight. He didn't get involved enough on saturday so im sure he'll be looking to make an impression.

The Flyers defense is a huge weakness and I'd hate to think how bad they would be if they had JvR and not Schenn this year...They really need a #1...
- Flyfreaky

you can have fanoof i hear he and hartnell are bros

Two points:

- as per my original post, whether or not I agree or disagree with what Orr did, I am still suprised that it isn't the topic of discussion over the Grabbo "alleged" incident.

- I'm still going to go with my somewhat weird logic on this one: if a goon approaches Orr, he can drop his gloves as soon as he wants. If a skilled player approaches, Orr can't make the first move.

I realize my line of thinking is somewhat Cherry-esque, but what I can I say: I'm a sucker for a man in a nice suit.
- Atomic Wedgie

fair enough

i guess the refs must of seen it much the same way that i did tho.

and like i said.. who knows what gionta was saying has he skated towards orr. that could of been a big part of it.

Two points:

- as per my original post, whether or not I agree or disagree with what Orr did, I am still suprised that it isn't the topic of discussion over the Grabbo "alleged" incident.

- I'm still going to go with my somewhat weird logic on this one: if a goon approaches Orr, he can drop his gloves as soon as he wants. If a skilled player approaches, Orr can't make the first move.

I realize my line of thinking is somewhat Cherry-esque, but what I can I say: I'm a sucker for a man in a nice suit.
- Atomic Wedgie

Gionta gooned Riemer last year, remember?

If I'm not mistaken, he did take some liberties with Scrivens earlier this season too.

I think that whole play was a message to the Habs that if they want to play dirty, none of their guys are safe.

Hartnell is injured.



I keep finding it hilarious how all the media experts keep saying something along the lines of "Ironically now that Burke is gone the Leafs are finally living up to his pugnacity etc. "

Except its not ironic. This is the team Burke built. Nonnis hasnt even made a single roster move. Since Burke had to get rid of a lot crap before he could ice the team he wanted, its hard to blame him for coming up short during the building of his team.
- Aquaman_2400

Burke sent Orr down for Wilson.. McCalaren was brought in by Nonis.. youth are being told to go to the dirty areas and are forced to if they want to play.. big rugged defenders are being called up.. Gardiner is sent down for not defending.. Connelly sent down for being soft, Lombardi dispateched for being soft.. I think you can see Nonis has already done some work.. and has allowed Carlyle to build his system without Burke's morals getting in the way of good hockey moves.

The short number of games can skew the stat.
- Feeling Glucky?

I said that Holzer can do what Schenn did but with less offensive numbers, Holzer may not make the big hit but he does finish his checks and angles off players, also Holzer is a better skater. I think the Leafs got the player they needed with JVR and Carlyle has him going to the net and staying there, will it last? That is the question we all are asking, consistency.

you can have fanoof i hear he and hartnell are bros
- MetroidPrime

I'd love DionP...

for the first time in many years, it just seems the guys are playing like a "team", holding each other accountable, and protecting each other.... this is new territory when it comes to this team
- aries1976

its not new.. but its been absent a long long long long time

Gionta gooned Riemer last year, remember?

If I'm not mistaken, he did take some liberties with Scrivens earlier this season too.

I think that whole play was a message to the Habs that if they want to play dirty, none of their guys are safe.
- Feeling Glucky?

Correct on all accounts... Montreal has been running Leaf goalies and Moen even attempted to drop an elbow on a downed Reimer in the first period on Saturday.. they don't get dirtier than the Montreal Midgets..

I'm fairly sure that both Frattin and Kadri would have been here under Burke, as well.

They were probably looking at some way to move Lombardi for a while, even before Nonis officially took over.
- Leeman4Gilmour

well.. like i said.. no sense worrying about it now.. the new GM did what needed to be done and thats all that matters

Two points:

- as per my original post, whether or not I agree or disagree with what Orr did, I am still suprised that it isn't the topic of discussion over the Grabbo "alleged" incident.

- I'm still going to go with my somewhat weird logic on this one: if a goon approaches Orr, he can drop his gloves as soon as he wants. If a skilled player approaches, Orr can't make the first move.

I realize my line of thinking is somewhat Cherry-esque, but what I can I say: I'm a sucker for a man in a nice suit.
- Atomic Wedgie

There is a code, despite the ridicule Cherry gets for insisting there is.

The only people who deny there are unwritten rules about fighting are geeks like Simmons and Cox who have zero experience with the actual workings of the game.

Look for a big game from MacArthur tonight. He didn't get involved enough on saturday so im sure he'll be looking to make an impression.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

If by Saturday you mean 'all season', then yes, I hope so too.

Look for a big game from MacArthur tonight. He didn't get involved enough on saturday so im sure he'll be looking to make an impression.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

if he plays well for a 5 game stretch... we might be able to get rid of him for something.

if he plays well for a 5 game stretch... we might be able to get rid of him for something.
- aries1976

L.Schenn?

If by Saturday you mean 'all season', then yes, I hope so too.
- 1979AD

I guess so.. He's had a couple of okay games but he really needs to elevate his game tonight.

Burke sent Orr down for Wilson.. McCalaren was brought in by Nonis.. youth are being told to go to the dirty areas and are forced to if they want to play.. big rugged defenders are being called up.. Gardiner is sent down for not defending.. Connelly sent down for being soft, Lombardi dispateched for being soft.. I think you can see Nonis has already done some work.. and has allowed Carlyle to build his system without Burke's morals getting in the way of good hockey moves.
- DoctorNHL

So true.

if he plays well for a 5 game stretch... we might be able to get rid of him for something.
- aries1976

60pt players don't grow on trees you know.. Might be worth keeping him

L.Schenn?
- Flyfreaky

schenn might take him out for 5 games, if he can stay in position, and not get lost out there.

I said that Holzer can do what Schenn did but with less offensive numbers, Holzer may not make the big hit but he does finish his checks and angles off players, also Holzer is a better skater. I think the Leafs got the player they needed with JVR and Carlyle has him going to the net and staying there, will it last? That is the question we all are asking, consistency.
- LeafMan

Agreed Leafman.. exactly my thoughts.. although the bonus is that Holzer has started to read the plays better also and has two goals.. in recent games also.

We never needed Schenn to be a superstar.. like Phaneuf all we need them to do is play a simple game.. and be super effective.. protect the front of the net.. a check hard positionally.

Phaneuf after missing the net repeatedly finally stepped closer to the net to hit it on Saturday.. he is better off shooting like Franson.. and just getting it on net.

Franson also has improved greatly from the beginning of the season where he was a liability.. full credit to him.. he looked calm and in control on Saturday and played well.

well.. like i said.. no sense worrying about it now.. the new GM did what needed to be done and thats all that matters
- Dozzer

Thankfully, both guys hesitated on Luongo long enough for Reimer to change some minds.

If reports are correct, Leafs management was ready to pull the trigger on a deal for Luongo (probably involving some combo of Bozak, Frattin, or Kadri) and Burke refused to let them do it.

He was fairly sure he wanted to go with Reimer/Scrivens. We might just look back at that non-trade as the move that saved the franchise for a generation.