calling him a cement head doesn't sound like something you'd say about a player you like.
- Feeling Glucky?

As stupid as it would be to trade Kessel or Phaneuf, the reaction from UG a year later would almost be worth it.

"Why would the Leafs trade their best defenseman when we need help at that position?"

"Yeah, sure, I guess we don't need a forward just entering his prime. Great job, Nonis! "

I would consider it since there's 30 teams and every team would need a number on pairing defenceman.
Phaneuf is on the number one pairing in Boston w/ Chara
He's probably also on the number one pairing in Chicago with Keith - Close Seabrook is good.
He'd be on the numbe rone pairing in Pitt w/ Letang
He'd be on the number one paiing in STL w/ Petro
He'd be on the number one pairing in Ottawa with Karlsson
He'd be on the number one pairing in Florida
He'd be on the number one pairing in Winnipeg - your high if you don't think so
Every team you listed he'd be arguably be on the number one pairing...
If you put him w/ Chara, Weber, Keith, Karlsson, Petroangelo don't you think he'd look a little better than playing with those guys as compared to Kotska or Gunnarson?
Alll you read is stats and never put anything into perspective.
- tmlfan17

+25

You can find mistakes Selke winners make but you'll find a lot more mistakes that Grabovski makes. And basic stuff too.

The fact is, Grabovski isn't as good defensively as you think he is.



That's what you're implying when you say he can shutdown Malkin.



Sure thing. Must have been Grabovski and his impeccable shutdown game. He's so amazing in defensive situations, they don't even bother put him on the penalty kill.
- Two_For_Truth

Your opinion.... I have mine, and the fact more than back it up.

What can you say to this? Its very funny, yes. But as for accuracy ? LOL. Phaneuf is - at worse - the 15 th best defencemen in the NHL. He's most likely a top 10,
- Aquaman_2400

No, it's accurate. Phaneuf has zero hockey IQ and his offensive game is horrible compared to where it's suppose to be and what he's paid to do. There is absolutely no way he's a top 10 defender in the NHL. Not offensively, not defensively and not all around. He's not a #1 defender on a contender.

and you do realize that the top 30 are basically all "#1 Defensemen"

You do realize how incredibly low your standards are right?

Phaneuf, at his absolute best, might be good enough to play on the top pairing of some of those teams. But it depends on a lot of things. If you put Phaneuf with Karlsson, it's a disaster waiting to happen. So no, Phaneuf would not be a 1st pairing defender with Ottawa. Probably wouldn't make sense in San Jose either. Or even with Pittsburgh. And a few others too.

Phaneuf has zero hockey IQ so that means you can't put him with an offensive defender because then Phaneuf would be making a bunch of mistakes and can't cover for his partner either. Phaneuf could only really play on the top pairing with guys like Doughty, Chara, Weber or Keith etc. But again, some of those teams have a better defensive compliment than Phaneuf like Seabrook and Seidenberg. Where does that put Phaneuf? Most of the time, that puts him on the 2nd pairing as the #3 guy, unless you have a #1 defender who can cover up for Phaneuf's mistakes.
- Two_For_Truth

In my entire internet experiamce, I have never seen such an opinionated person be so ignorant. Your ability to measure talent is hilarious. I am glad you think Dion sucks because if you thought he was good, I would honestly have to reassess everything I think.

But heres the thing: I only take a small percentage of what I think from my own experiance. Most of my opinion is from pouring over scouting reports and talking to people who actually get paid to have an opinion. Let me promise you one thing: there are no scouts, analysts or professionals who agree with your opinion of Phaneuf, so you are wrong. Theres no argument to be had and in fact, you are bordering on ridiculousness.

Look guys, it doesn't have to be so complicated.

Schenn sucks. End of story.

See? That was easy!

Your opinion.... I have mine, and the fact more than back it up.
- burn

Actually, they don't. The picture of his defensive zone coverage against Carolina is just one example of it. His non-existent ice time on the PK is another. You would think that a guy being used to shutdown 1st line players, as you claim he does so well, would get PK time. Guess not.

I said he's inconsistent. He has one big game then disappears for three. Reading what is actually written would go a long way for you.
- Two_For_Truth

LOL

Thats box score watching at its best. If you score 30 goals, you score in just roughly over 1/3 of your games. Throw in the obligatory 5 or 6 2 goal games and you have a guy who, if you only watch box scores, is dissapearing for 66% of the games.

Of course knowledgable hockey fans know that goals don't mean anything and that the true measure of a player is scoring chances.

In my entire internet experiamce, I have never seen such an opinionated person be so ignorant. Your ability to measure talent is hilarious. I am glad you think Dion sucks because if you thought he was good, I would honestly have to reassess everything I think.

But heres the thing: I only take a small percentage of what I think from my own experiance. Most of my opinion is from pouring over scouting reports and talking to people who actually get paid to have an opinion. Let me promise you one thing: there are no scouts, analysts or professionals who agree with your opinion of Phaneuf, so you are wrong. Theres no argument to be had and in fact, you are bordering on ridiculousness.
- Aquaman_2400

Have fun with the rest of your experiamces..

What do people here want for Kessel?
- Mr_Smokey

Nothing. Moot point. He will be resigned for sure. Trading him would be like cutting of you nose to spider face.

No, it's accurate. Phaneuf has zero hockey IQ and his offensive game is horrible compared to where it's suppose to be and what he's paid to do. There is absolutely no way he's a top 10 defender in the NHL. Not offensively, not defensively and not all around. He's not a #1 defender on a contender.



You do realize how incredibly low your standards are right?
- Two_For_Truth

I love all this time you spend talking about "hockey IQ" vs. "natural talent", as if you have any idea what either of those things means.

It does give the vague impression that you think you could play hockey (because it takes "hockey IQ" to recognize a lack of it, right?) if only these meatheads with this unearned "natural talent" would quit taking all the roster spots.

You know who has "hockey IQ"? A guy with a cup ring and a Norris trophy. An NHL coach with a career winning record.

If Randy Carlyle thinks Phaneuf is capable of playing 28 minutes per night in all situations and primarily against top opponents, then so be it. You want to put your "hockey IQ" up against his?

Of course knowledgable hockey fans know that goals don't mean anything and that the true measure of a player is scoring chances.
- Aquaman_2400

To throw in Bozak & Gunnarssonand get

Eric Johnson, Ryan O' Reilly and a First
- steve362

If it was Kessel alone for that package I would think it was a joke.

Eric Johnson? He'd be the 4th best defensemen on our team once Rielly and Gardner are here to stay. O'reilly is not being given a big contract because his high point total is not likely to be repeatable and their first? PASS

I love all this time you spend talking about "hockey IQ" vs. "natural talent", as if you have any idea what either of those things means.

It does give the vague impression that you think you could play hockey (because it takes "hockey IQ" to recognize a lack of it, right?) if only these meatheads with this unearned "natural talent" would quit taking all the roster spots.

You know who has "hockey IQ"? A guy with a cup ring and a Norris trophy. An NHL coach with a career winning record.

If Randy Carlyle thinks Phaneuf is capable of playing 28 minutes per night in all situations and primarily against top opponents, then so be it. You want to put your "hockey IQ" up against his?
- Leeman4Gilmour

Sad part for Carlyle is that he has no other options. But if you want to blindly believe that if given the choice, that Carlyle would put Phaneuf in a position he can't handle when he has alternatives, that's your mistake to make. Unfortunately for him, he doesn't have any other options. Phaneuf is his #1 guy by default, not by choice.

I think you're mistaken. I'm not knocking Phaneuf.

I'm knocking U_G, who said that Phaneuf sucks because he cannot turn his defensive partner, Mike Kostka, into a "superstar".

If that's the criteria for not sucking, then even Lidstrom would have been a bust to Uggie.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Oh my bad then. I think you and Atomic Wedgie are the only good posters here. At least of the ones I recognize. SO sorry to offend you.

Look guys, it doesn't have to be so complicated.

Schenn sucks. End of story.

See? That was easy!
- Pecafan Fan

Nope. Not a Leaf anymore. He's awesome now.

Nothing. Moot point. He will be resigned for sure. Trading him would be like cutting of you nose to spider face.
- Aquaman_2400

Sad part for Carlyle is that he has no other options. But if you want to blindly believe that if given the choice, that Carlyle would put Phaneuf in a position he can't handle when he has alternatives, that's your mistake to make. Unfortunately for him, he doesn't have any other options. Phaneuf is his #1 guy by default, not by choice.
- Two_For_Truth

No better options? If Phaneuf is half as bad as you're suggesting, there should be at least a few better options.

You already said Gunnarsson is a good defenseman. You also seem to be insanely high on Luke Schenn now. Do you realize that Phaneuf was averaging about 10 minutes more per night than Schenn last year after Carlyle arrived?

You think Schenn is a decent defenseman. Fair enough. Carlyle thinks Phaneuf is 60% better.

I guess this Phaneuf fella is pretty good, eh?

Actually, they don't. The picture of his defensive zone coverage against Carolina is just one example of it. His non-existent ice time on the PK is another. You would think that a guy being used to shutdown 1st line players,as you claim he does so well, would get PK time. Guess not.
- Two_For_Truth

Why?

Grabo tae more defensive draws than anyone else on the team. He starts more times than not in his zone, but he's not being trusted in a defensive role?? He is chosen game after game to line up against the other teams #1, but I guess that doesn't matter. All that matters is one mistake

Oh my bad then. I think you and Atomic Wedgie are the only good posters here. At least of the ones I recognize. SO sorry to offend you.
- Aquaman_2400

Don't tell Wedgie I said this, but he might just be the best poster here.

Why?

Grabo tae more defensive draws than anyone else on the team. He starts more times than not in his zone, but he's not being trusted in a defensive role?? He is chosen game after game to line up against the other teams #1, but I guess that doesn't matter. All that matters is one mistake
- burn

And again, why would Grabovski take all these defensive draws and not get any PK time? Makes you wonder. If Grabovski, the fantastic shutdown center who can negate Malkin, is really that good, why wouldn't they use him on the PK too? Most of the PK face-offs are defensive zone face-offs and yet Grabovski is never out there to take them. Big mystery.

No better options? If Phaneuf is half as bad as you're suggesting, there should be at least a few better options.

You already said Gunnarsson is a good defenseman. You also seem to be insanely high on Luke Schenn now. Do you realize that Phaneuf was averaging about 10 minutes more per night than Schenn last year after Carlyle arrived?

You think Schenn is a decent defenseman. Fair enough. Carlyle thinks Phaneuf is 60% better.

I guess this Phaneuf fella is pretty good, eh?
- Leeman4Gilmour

I guess that complete and total moron Cup winner, Peter Laviolette, must hate Schenn given that he's playing 20+ minutes a night with the Flyers. And his team doesn't have to pay him 6.5 million dollars to do it either.

I wonder how he managed to even get a goal while doing it, something Phaneuf hasn't even been able to do yet. But it's okay, you continue to marvel at his powerful slapshot as he continues to injure more people than score goals.

Gunnarsson is a good defender on the 2nd pairing.

Insanely high on Schenn? There's your strawman creeping back into the equation.

And again, why would Grabovski take all these defensive draws and not get any PK time? Makes you wonder. If Grabovski, the fantastic shutdown center who can negate Malkin, is really that good, why wouldn't they use him on the PK too? Most of the PK face-offs are defensive zone face-offs and yet Grabovski is never out there to take them. Big mystery.
- Two_For_Truth

Almost the same as competent, but keep going.

Almost the same as competent, but keep going.
- burn

Many instances of incompetence such as against the Hurricanes which is why I said he's not as good defensively as you think he is such as the "can shutdown Malkin" words of praise.

But why isn't Grabovski on the PK? He's definitely not as good as "he can shutdown Malkin" but if he's competent defensively and takes all these big, important defensive face-offs, why isn't he on the PK?

I don't think Grabovski is horrible defensively or even bad defensively but you're saying he's competent defensively and while that's different than saying "he can shutdown Malkin" why isn't he on the PK?

Seriously, think about it. If he's good enough defensively, why isn't he out there on the PK? A bunch of years the Leafs have been at the bottom of the league on the PK, they still sit at 24th this year, and they have competent defensive players not playing on the PK. Seems odd.

I guess that complete and total moron Cup winner, Peter Laviolette, must hate Schenn given that he's playing 20+ minutes a night with the Flyers. And his team doesn't have to pay him 6.5 million dollars to do it either.

I wonder how he managed to even get a goal while doing it, something Phaneuf hasn't even been able to do yet. But it's okay, you continue to marvel at his powerful slapshot as he continues to injure more people than score goals.

Gunnarsson is a good defender on the 2nd pairing.

Insanely high on Schenn? There's your strawman creeping back into the equation.
- Two_For_Truth

So Gunnarsson is good. Schenn is better.

Phaneuf is better than them both. But Phaneuf sucks.

Impeccable UG logic strikes again.