Yeah, I'm not a huge J.Staal booster, but I actually thought the asking price for him ended up being lower than expected.
- Leeman4Gilmour

The Pens only had 1 option! His agent made it clear he wouldn't sign anywhere except Carolina.

I like Reimer, too. And I think he has proven himself as a capable NHL starter (not a star, but a competent starter).

But I'm afraid I don't share your enthusiasm for those other guys. Franson has moments when he looks good, but is soft as they come.

Fraser is okay, but he's being protected. Ditto Holzer. To be effective "shut down" defensemen, they'd have to be able to shut down more than the opponents' third and fourth lines.

Kostka came out of the gate hot, but the league has caught up to him now. Look for his minutes to decline. If Gardiner gets healthy, he's off the PP.
- Leeman4Gilmour

+1

Seriously, we're slightly overachieving on defense (I actually think having a competent goaltender helps immensely), but let's be serious here: there's a lot of holes and weaknesses on this D core.

Just look at how they struggle to get the puck out their own end. It's as much the fault of the forwards, but we were lucky to win last night and we completely come apart against upper echelon teams.

You've gone too far there.

But if we could add a shooting 1st line centre, this team wouldn't be horrible to look at.
- Atomic Wedgie

They were the sole bidder because it was pretty well known that Staal wasn't going to sign with anyone but Carolina if he made it to free agency.
- triggermartin

I'd say that more of a fan consensus than any kind of fact. The kids' from Thunderbay and I have a hard time believing that if the Leafs aquired him and Burke said "Hey kid, we're going to make you the centre of our franchise and pay you millions of dollars to play in your home province" that he would insist on playing in Carolina. Maybe he would have, I don't know him but its hardly a fact.

AND if Thomas did decide to play next season, his only option is the Isles....
- Barx

Yes, that is correct.

I would take either Adams or Kennedy or Niskanen for Kulemin and call it a win. But PGh would most likely tell us to Frack ourselves.
- Aquaman_2400

Well I've heard Despres is being shopped, and the Pens are scouting Kulemin. Seems like a perfect fit.

In my humble opinion, you can't trade Grabbo until you get a true #1 centre.

His value to the Leafs is greater than his value on the open market.

And he's paid that way.
- Atomic Wedgie

You don't need the Getzlaf, Gireoux Stamkos number one centre though. I mean that would be nice, but if you had a package of Gunnerson and Grabovski, you could target a nice centre with high end potential.

I would even be willing to include the first rounder while you might still get lottery value for it. Grabbo, Gunnysack and a first would get you something mighty good.

Maybe. I love James Riemer though.

One thing I can't believe is that if you look at the roster, Toronto should have the worst defense in NHL history.

Except that um, wow.

Franson: Would have laughed at the start of the year if told me he would be so effective. He hits, his shot is good, he moves the puck. He plays like a slightly worse skating Dion. Dion JR. if you will. Sure, his hits aren't as hard, but he is a nice hybred D.

Frasor: What I imagined we were getting when we first signed Komiserik. This guy is pretty solid alround.

Kostka: Since when can a 27 year old rookie step into the NHL and look like an Allstar? Blocks shots, kills penalties, moves the puck, avoids stupid plays, Complimentary PP skills.

HOlzer: The fourth no name guy and he's just as good as the rest of them.


Phanuef and Gardner are your (eventual) foundation, so are Gunnerson and Liles expendable, do you think? How long can the Leafs go with these 4 no name D? Are they good to go or are we going to soon see what should actually happen if you replace 80% of your NHL defenseman with their AHL counterparts?
- Aquaman_2400

Dude just stop........ If you Kotska is anything more than a bottom pairing defensemen then you've been drinking already today. All-star???

I'd say that more of a fan consensus than any kind of fact. The kids' from Thunderbay and I have a hard time believing that if the Leafs aquired him and Burke said "Hey kid, we're going to make you the centre of our franchise and pay you millions of dollars to play in your home province" that he would insist on playing in Carolina. Maybe he would have, I don't know him but its hardly a fact.
- Aquaman_2400

Alright, you're right and the rest of the world's wrong.

You don't need the Getzlaf, Gireoux Stamkos number one centre though. I mean that would be nice, but if you had a package of Gunnerson and Grabovski, you could target a nice centre with high end potential.

I would even be willing to include the first rounder while you might still get lottery value for it. Grabbo, Gunnysack and a first would get you something mighty good.
- Aquaman_2400

Of course not. Who needs Stamkos or Giroux?

Yes, trade more 1st round picks. Not like that has ever failed the Leafs before.

+1

Seriously, we're slightly overachieving on defense (I actually think having a competent goaltender helps immensely), but let's be serious here: there's a lot of holes and weaknesses on this D core.

Just look at how they struggle to get the puck out their own end. It's as much the fault of the forwards, but we were lucky to win last night and we completely come apart against upper echelon teams.
- gravyface

23rd in the league in goals against.

There's definitely room for improvement.

Of course not. Who needs Stamkos or Giroux?

Yes, trade more 1st round picks. Not like that has ever failed the Leafs before.
- Two_For_Truth

It pains me to defend him but c'mon man. You are completely spinning his words just so you can be a Richard head.

We all know how much you love to do that so.... Nevermind. Why bother...

+1

Seriously, we're slightly overachieving on defense (I actually think having a competent goaltender helps immensely), but let's be serious here: there's a lot of holes and weaknesses on this D core.

Just look at how they struggle to get the puck out their own end. It's as much the fault of the forwards, but we were lucky to win last night and we completely come apart against upper echelon teams.
- gravyface

I am responding more to the quote that this quote quoted:

Frasor, Franson, Holzer all played some tough minutes last night including being on the ice in PK situations and at the end of the game.

Kostka played his best game of the year last night, in my opinion. His PK was not just fantastic., but game saving. One one wpg PP he cleared the puck three times in one shift, not letting them past centre. He reads the play very well. To say the league figured him out is laughable. Its not like baseball where they can figure out your hot spot and keep it away from you. I don't think Franson is soft either. That is just the kind of thing that keeps getting repeated until its a fact. He sure didn't look soft last night, taking the body on multiple occaisions.

Of course not. Who needs Stamkos or Giroux?

Yes, trade more 1st round picks. Not like that has ever failed the Leafs before.
- Two_For_Truth

I like it when I don't have to watch the NHL draft on Friday night.

It's easier to go out to a movie that night, and just starting watching Saturday morning.

Or Saturday afternoon...

I'd say that more of a fan consensus than any kind of fact. The kids' from Thunderbay and I have a hard time believing that if the Leafs aquired him and Burke said "Hey kid, we're going to make you the centre of our franchise and pay you millions of dollars to play in your home province" that he would insist on playing in Carolina. Maybe he would have, I don't know him but its hardly a fact.
- Aquaman_2400

I have news for you...Eric Staal is signed VERY long term in Carolina, and won't be going anywhere in the foreseeable future. If Jordan ever wanted to play with his bro, guess where he's going...

I am responding more to the quote that this quote quoted:

Frasor, Franson, Holzer all played some tough minutes last night including being on the ice in PK situations and at the end of the game.

Kostka played his best game of the year last night, in my opinion. His PK was not just fantastic., but game saving. One one wpg PP he cleared the puck three times in one shift, not letting them past centre. He reads the play very well. To say the league figured him out is laughable. Its not like baseball where they can figure out your hot spot and keep it away from you. I don't think Franson is soft either. That is just the kind of thing that keeps getting repeated until its a fact. He sure didn't look soft last night, taking the body on multiple occaisions.
- Aquaman_2400

Dude: it was the Jets.

Dude: it was the Jets.
- Atomic Wedgie

It pains me to defend him but c'mon man. You are completely spinning his words just so you can be a Richard head.

We all know how much you love to do that so.... Nevermind. Why bother...

- markmark

Spinning his words? He clearly said he would trade the 1st round pick as if the Leafs have never had that blow up in their face doing that before.

I like it when I don't have to watch the NHL draft on Friday night.

It's easier to go out to a movie that night, and just starting watching Saturday morning.

Or Saturday afternoon...
- Atomic Wedgie

Or Sunday night.

Dude just stop........ If you Kotska is anything more than a bottom pairing defensemen then you've been drinking already today. All-star???
- faceto27

The guys a nucks troll

I'd say that more of a fan consensus than any kind of fact. The kids' from Thunderbay and I have a hard time believing that if the Leafs aquired him and Burke said "Hey kid, we're going to make you the centre of our franchise and pay you millions of dollars to play in your home province" that he would insist on playing in Carolina. Maybe he would have, I don't know him but its hardly a fact.
- Aquaman_2400

That's actually false.

- Pecafan Fan

What are you laughing at, jerk-face?

You are our sworn enemy until around Saturday at midnight.

So shut your sugar pie-hole.

Dude: it was the Jets.
- Atomic Wedgie

Holy (frank) are we going to get a lot of (frank)in SNOW... 2 major snows coming, and going to colide right over us... It is going to start in 2 hours and SNOW HARD until MONDAY morning.

Of course not. Who needs Stamkos or Giroux?

Yes, trade more 1st round picks. Not like that has ever failed the Leafs before.
- Two_For_Truth

Youre just being an ass for the fun of it. I think anyone who reads what I wrote would know I meant that , sure it would be nice to have a Stamkos, you only need to improve on Bozak, not win the lottery.

Secondly, theres no logic in your resistance to trading first rounders. You know who always trades their first rounder? Detroit. Becuase they know there is value in trading them because you get paid for them like a star is assured, when in fact, even if you draft top ten, you only have about 40% chance of getting a star player, and thats with a liberal use of the word star.

Even the Kessel deal is not as bad as people think because you are trading the potential bust for something assured. Kessel was 21 and guareneed to work out. Where as only in a worse case scenerio would boston get 2 star players (potentiall, lets not blow Hamilton up too much yet).

The only point I want to make with regards to first rounders is that just becaues it didnt work out well in the past doesn't have any bearing on the future. You are committing a logical fallacy.