good one for a Canadiens fan

I think Burke turned down a 1st Round pick for him last year. I guess he'd be taking that offer now if he was still the GM.
- Orpik44

IMO no...he's our best 2 way forward and def a building block under Randy's system...Sutter and a first and we'll think about it

He's been the best Leafs defenceman by far. Nobody else even comes close.

Why do Leafs fans feel they need to attack this guy?

Yes, he's a douche. I really don't care.

But go ahead, repeat the story about him controlling the tape deck in the dressing room. It's fantastic proof that he's not a good captain.
- Atomic Wedgie

Do you really think he's been the best defenceman? I'd easily put Franson and Kostka before him, and on any given night one of the other guys. Phaneuf has been horrible.

Trade Phaneuf to the Flyers for Coburn/Couturier/Simmonds and call it a happy day
- Orpik44

If only it was that easy.

Do you really think he's been the best defenceman? I'd easily put Franson and Kostka before him, and on any given night one of the other guys. Phaneuf has been horrible.
- Leafland

Told you AW.... there is no point.

He's been the best Leafs defenceman by far. Nobody else even comes close.

Why do Leafs fans feel they need to attack this guy?

Yes, he's a douche. I really don't care.

But go ahead, repeat the story about him controlling the tape deck in the dressing room. It's fantastic proof that he's not a good captain.
- Atomic Wedgie

For the most part, I've been ok with the play of the D. I really noticed how physical they were last night, esp'ly Fraser and Holzer

IMO no...he's our best 2 way forward and def a building block under Randy's system...Sutter and a first and we'll think about it
- JIMI-JAMES

The thing is as I said before, in terms of importance to the Pens I don't think we'd trade Sutter. He's a very solid two way C. He'd fit nicely in TO. Just sign Getzlaf and Perry in the off season.

Told you AW.... there is no point.
- systemtool

???

We aren't allowed to say Dion has been bad after a win? Do you really think his play is acceptable?

If only it was that easy.
- Leafland

Philly is desperate for d-men. Phaneuf would be good there. You guys made magic with Luke Schenn for Van Riemsdyk. This could happen again! I'd start asking for Coburn/Couturier

???

We aren't allowed to say Dion has been bad after a win? Do you really think his play is acceptable?
- Leafland

You're allowed to say anything you want.

Im just saying its pointless to convince other people of the fact Dion hasn't been "horrible". Yes, I do. Its been more than acceptable.

Philly is desperate for d-men. Phaneuf would be good there. You guys made magic with Luke Schenn for Van Riemsdyk. This could happen again! I'd start asking for Coburn/Couturier
- Orpik44

Nonis would want Cooter, but so does everybody. I don't think Philly wants Dion that much, he's not a very well liked person in the league.

Do you really think he's been the best defenceman? I'd easily put Franson and Kostka before him, and on any given night one of the other guys. Phaneuf has been horrible.
- Leafland

Oh Lord.

Let's put aside my opinion for the moment.

Let's look at what Randy Carlyle thinks.

Can we agree that Randy Carlyle has a better handle on who is doing well and who isn't? I mean the guy stands on the bench for every game, he runs every practice, and he has a staff break down game film so that he knows how his players are doing.

So we agree Coach Carlyle has a better handle on it than us? Great.

Mr. Carlyle thinks that Phaneuf is worthy of 14 minutes more ice time a night than Franson. That's 12 extra shifts a game.

If Franson was playing better than Phaneuf, why would Carlyle do this?

For eff's sakes, Phaneuf is being thrown out against the other team's top two lines. Yeah, not one - top two lines. Franson is only seeing the dregs.

Phaneuf has been the Leafs' best defenceman this year. Same as last year. Suggesting otherwise is just ridiculous.

You're allowed to say anything you want.

Im just saying its pointless to convince other people of the fact Dion hasn't been "horrible". Yes, I do. Its been more than acceptable.
- systemtool

Oh, ok. I guess it's just as pointless to convince some people that he has been horrible.

For the most part, I've been ok with the play of the D. I really noticed how physical they were last night, esp'ly Fraser and Holzer
- Canada Cup

I agree, the D have been better, even Komi in the few games he has played..Liles still is not where he was before the head injury last year, but I think almost all of this can be explained by the system RC is implementing.

As for Phaneuf, I don't think he as been bad, but he can be better. I would try a period or two where he is back on the strong side, and Kostka is on his off side. Can't hurt to give that a try.

Oh, ok. I guess it's just as pointless to convince some people that he has been horrible.
- Leafland

Because he hasn't been. You hate him, we get it.

He's been the best Leafs defenceman by far. Nobody else even comes close.

Why do Leafs fans feel they need to attack this guy?

Yes, he's a douche. I really don't care.

But go ahead, repeat the story about him controlling the tape deck in the dressing room. It's fantastic proof that he's not a good captain.
- Atomic Wedgie

The guy plays 25-29 minutes per night against every top line the Leafs play. There is literally nobody else on this roster capable of doing it.

And, for the purposes of defining what a top pairing defenseman is, there are maybe 30-40 guys in the entire NHL who can do effectively over the course of a season.

Why some people can't see this is beyond me. Yeah, I guess they could play him 18 minutes a night against third and fourth lines if we wanted to pad his stats and make him look better.

Of course, then we'd have to hear the same people complain that we aren't playing Phaneuf enough.

Oh, ok. I guess it's just as pointless to convince some people that he has been horrible.
- Leafland

It's just pointless trying to convince me that he has been horrible.

I get it - everyone has a whipping boy. Mine is Bozak.

The difference is I can back up my hatred of Bozak.

27 minutes a night. If Phaneuf was horrible, he wouldn't get 27 minutes a night.

The guy plays 25-29 minutes per night against every top line the Leafs play. There is literally nobody else on this roster capable of doing it.

And, for the purposes of defining what a top pairing defenseman is, there are maybe 30-40 guys in the entire NHL who can do effectively over the course of a season.

Why some people can't see this is beyond me. Yeah, I guess they could play him 18 minutes a night against third and fourth lines if we wanted to pad his stats and make him look better.

Of course, then we'd have to hear the same people complain that we aren't playing Phaneuf enough.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Allow me to add one thing to your well-thought out post:

He's playing 27 minutes a night while carrying a 27 year old career AHLer.

Oh Lord.

Let's put aside my opinion for the moment.

Let's look at what Randy Carlyle thinks.

Can we agree that Randy Carlyle has a better handle on who is doing well and who isn't? I mean the guy stands on the bench for every game, he runs every practice, and he has a staff break down game film so that he knows how his players are doing.

So we agree Coach Carlyle has a better handle on it than us? Great.

Mr. Carlyle thinks that Phaneuf is worth of 14 minutes more ice time a night than Franson. That's 12 extra shifts a game.

If Franson was playing better than Phaneuf, why would Carlyle do this?

For eff's sakes, Phaneuf is being thrown out against the other team's top two lines. Yeah, not one - top two lines. Franson is only seeing the dregs.

Phaneuf has been the Leafs' best defenceman this year. Same as last year. Suggesting otherwise is just ridiculous.
- Atomic Wedgie

The minutes argument is such an easy point to make, but if he's playing 25 mins a night, against the best players, and getting beat like a rented mule every night, is he doing his job?

Obviously Mr. Carlyle doesn't have much to choose from on defence.

Oh Lord.

Let's put aside my opinion for the moment.

Let's look at what Randy Carlyle thinks.

Can we agree that Randy Carlyle has a better handle on who is doing well and who isn't? I mean the guy stands on the bench for every game, he runs every practice, and he has a staff break down game film so that he knows how his players are doing.

So we agree Coach Carlyle has a better handle on it than us? Great.

Mr. Carlyle thinks that Phaneuf is worth of 14 minutes more ice time a night than Franson. That's 12 extra shifts a game.

If Franson was playing better than Phaneuf, why would Carlyle do this?

For eff's sakes, Phaneuf is being thrown out against the other team's top two lines. Yeah, not one - top two lines. Franson is only seeing the dregs.

Phaneuf has been the Leafs' best defenceman this year. Same as last year. Suggesting otherwise is just ridiculous.
- Atomic Wedgie

Stop being silly, obviously since we post on a hockey forum we know way more than some bum coach who's only ever won a single cup in his coaching career.

I agree, the D have been better, even Komi in the few games he has played..Liles still is not where he was before the head injury last year, but I think almost all of this can be explained by the system RC is implementing.

As for Phaneuf, I don't think he as been bad, but he can be better. I would try a period or two where he is back on the strong side, and Kostka is on his off side. Can't hurt to give that a try.
- vermie22

Last night was a very disciplined game where mistakes were minimized. Team was outplayed for two periods and strong defensive play kept them in it even with one soft goal against. Stayed closed and came back.

Those were games that were very seldom won last year

The guy plays 25-29 minutes per night against every top line the Leafs play. There is literally nobody else on this roster capable of doing it.

And, for the purposes of defining what a top pairing defenseman is, there are maybe 30-40 guys in the entire NHL who can do effectively over the course of a season.

Why some people can't see this is beyond me. Yeah, I guess they could play him 18 minutes a night against third and fourth lines if we wanted to pad his stats and make him look better.

Of course, then we'd have to hear the same people complain that we aren't playing Phaneuf enough.
- Leeman4Gilmour

He plays 30 mins a night, is on the ice for 2 goals a game, and the team loses. Yes, he is a Leaf top pairing defenceman.

The minutes argument is such an easy point to make, but if he's playing 25 mins a night, against the best players, and getting beat like a rented mule every night, is he doing his job?

Obviously Mr. Carlyle doesn't have much to choose from on defence.
- Leafland

Wouldn't that make him best on the team?

The minutes argument is such an easy point to make, but if he's playing 25 mins a night, against the best players, and getting beat like a rented mule every night, is he doing his job?

Obviously Mr. Carlyle doesn't have much to choose from on defence.
- Leafland

Yes, I know.

It really, really is.

Like, seriously, you'd have to be pretty stupid to overlook it.

The minutes argument is such an easy point to make, but if he's playing 25 mins a night, against the best players, and getting beat like a rented mule every night, is he doing his job?

Obviously Mr. Carlyle doesn't have much to choose from on defence.
- Leafland

He isn't getting beat every game, nor is he costing this team many wins. The problem is, you only notice his mistakes and hate him so much you block out the positives.

Guys like Fraser, Franson, Holzer and Gunner have hurt this team far more times, yet they get a free pass because you're too busy hating the teams best Dman.

If Phaneuf wasn't doing his job, he wouldnt be getting the minutes he does. Its plain and simple. Nor would this team be sitting in a playoff spot right now.

It's just pointless trying to convince me that he has been horrible.

I get it - everyone has a whipping boy. Mine is Bozak.

The difference is I can back up my hatred of Bozak.

27 minutes a night. If Phaneuf was horrible, he wouldn't get 27 minutes a night.
- Atomic Wedgie

So let me get this straight...your only argument that he's our best defenseman is that Carlyle has him playing 27 mins per game? Don't number one defenseman also put up points, score goals, help keep the puck out of our net? He seems to be doing none of those, other than just being on the ice.