Not an easy thing to do SC..


The Leafs had Burke, with a budget to the Cap, and he couldn't get a team in the playoffs either..Just sayin. it is a hrad thing to do. Those how do it quickly also admit to getting lucky with some prospects as well. Also, they get lucky with picks that they have received from trades gone by. Also some drafts years are far stronger than other, so it also dpends where you pick and how the picks are for that year..

I thnk Snow has done a pretty fair job with a negative Cap floor budget to work with. He has a far higher grade than Burke, for what that's worth.
- bixll

The F'in Edmonton Oilers went from a game away from their 7th cup, to 6 years out of the playoffs & chances are a 7th this year. And they have drafted 1st over all 3 times in that span.
From where they were 7 years ago & where we were 7 years ago.. we have done a ton better.

XxNYIxX

I'm Back!!!!

Snowblowing the driveway!!!

Lots of snow... so far so good!!!

What did I miss... or should I ask????

Not an easy thing to do SC..


The Leafs had Burke, with a budget to the Cap, and he couldn't get a team in the playoffs either..Just sayin. it is a hrad thing to do. Those how do it quickly also admit to getting lucky with some prospects as well. Also, they get lucky with picks that they have received from trades gone by. Also some drafts years are far stronger than other, so it also dpends where you pick and how the picks are for that year..

I thnk Snow has done a pretty fair job with a negative Cap floor budget to work with. He has a far higher grade than Burke, for what that's worth.
- bixll

Not saying its easy.

Just saying that OUR 5 yr Rebuild is a failure.

I dont see how anyone can argue that point.

We are in the middle of the 5th yr and the team isnt very good.

How can it be called a success when the 5th yr is about to expire?

Kind of like saying I wouldnt have lost the fight had I not been knocked out with that one punch.

Are our players younger? Yes. Do they have potential? Some of them do.

In the final yr of the Rebuild are we a Cup contending team? NO.

Are we a PO team? I doubt that highly.

Are we a successful team. NOPE.

So the rebuild hasnt produced the results that Snow expected when he put the 5 yr label on it. Therefor its failed.


Comparing Snow to Burke. Who was fired because of his inept rebuild.


End of Rant.

We have to stop setting our standards and expectations so low. We're bringing up the Phoenix Coyotes...and then talking about how we're not comparable because they're in a better position than we are? What are we even doing in the league at that point? At least we haven't been the Oilers for the last six seasons? C'mon fellas, Let's aim a little higher and expect more from the team, its owner, and its management. Where's UrNotMe with his "Losing is a disease"?

Last night was a disaster, but I still believe the team was playing relatively well before then. Horrible to have that kind of effort against the Rangers of all teams, but I'm not writing off the season. Let's go out there and turn it around against Buffalo.

But if last night starts a trend and we're back where we started all over again, and if Cappy takes the fall only to be replaced by Weight, and if the only response from management is to weasel around the cap floor, the last thing I'm going to do is make excuses for it. Time for the folks in charge of this operation to turn the ship around here. I think we've milked the "Milbury" excuse for all it's worth, the arena issues are behind us now...if not now, when?

The F'in Edmonton Oilers went from a game away from their 7th cup, to 6 years out of the playoffs & chances are a 7th this year. And they have drafted 1st over all 3 times in that span.
From where they were 7 years ago & where we were 7 years ago.. we have done a ton better.

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

I do have to agree here. Anyone suggesting the Hawks and Pens won their cups or even made the playoffs in the first 5 years of their rebuilds are incorrect. Neither showed significant progress until the 6th season. Granted what we have is full of holes and lacking serious depth along with serious top end talent. We have not been lucky enough to draft 1st overall more than once and have had difficulty attracting quality UFA's. Where I very strongly agree is that now we have a prospect pool to draw on as far as trade chips, and have several players on the roster not living up to expectations that could and should be moved if we can improve the team.

KO is very quickly looking like Comeau after his 24 goal season. At this point I'm questioning his ability to play in the top 9 with any kind of success and thinking he's in dire need of a change of scenery. His contract, while long, is not overly expensive and if I was in charge I'd be looking to move him along with a mid level prospect for some immediate help.

As far as LV coming back into the line up and whether or not it's fair Hickey sits, at this point I want wins. This team needs points desperately and needs to avoid a longer string of losses. LV makes this defense better over Hickey, and Streit (whether or not he plays like he is currently) makes us better than Hickey.

I don't care about fair, I want wins. Sit the players who aren't producing and put our best line up forward. Aucoin needs to drop to the 4th line, Cizikas needs to jump to the third, Ullstrom to the second, Okposo to the third.

If this streak reaches 5 or 6 we may as well start looking at the draft. It's going to be a lot more difficult this year to make up any ground.

The F'in Edmonton Oilers went from a game away from their 7th cup, to 6 years out of the playoffs & chances are a 7th this year. And they have drafted 1st over all 3 times in that span.
From where they were 7 years ago & where we were 7 years ago.. we have done a ton better.

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

That's my point. To get where this team is, with a negative cap budget is border line excellent work. The Leafs suck and they had a max budget. Pretty damn good.

Not saying its easy.

Just saying that OUR 5 yr Rebuild is a failure.

I dont see how anyone can argue that point.

We are in the middle of the 5th yr and the team isnt very good.

How can it be called a success when the 5th yr is about to expire?

Kind of like saying I wouldnt have lost the fight had I not been knocked out with that one punch.

Are our players younger? Yes. Do they have potential? Some of them do.

In the final yr of the Rebuild are we a Cup contending team? NO.

Are we a PO team? I doubt that highly.

Are we a successful team. NOPE.

So the rebuild hasnt produced the results that Snow expected when he put the 5 yr label on it. Therefor its failed.


Comparing Snow to Burke. Who was fired because of his inept rebuild.


End of Rant.
- SCLI

And just to add....

While it can be argued that we are somewhat better than we were 5 years ago (only because we have JT now and didn't have him back then), the teams around us have gotten exponentially better than us without being in a "rebuild".

Anyone who is saying this team is no better off than it was 5 years ago has clearly forgetten what this franchise looked like when Smyth bolted. The clubs only prospect was Okposo. Since then we've added Tavares, Strome, Hamonic, Poulin, Nilsson, Nino, Nelson, Cizikas, Donnovan, Mayfield, Martin, Ullstrom and a bunch of others. While the big team still struggles in waiting for those players to become NHL ready, the farm club is miles ahead of where it was making the overall all health of the francise far better than before.
Regardless of the reason, this team has had to do the rebuild with nearly no injection of free agent activity.

So while I understand, and share to a degree, the frustration that this team isn't a force after 5 years, I also am not going to make it sound as though we've only spun our wheels.

It's amazing, a 3 game losing streak with one VERY BAD performance and folks who were talking about how this team was finally turned the corner are now declaing the last 5 years a wreck. Talk about volatility!

We have to stop setting our standards and expectations so low. We're bringing up the Phoenix Coyotes...and then talking about how we're not comparable because they're in a better position than we are? What are we even doing in the league at that point? At least we haven't been the Oilers for the last six seasons? C'mon fellas, Let's aim a little higher and expect more from the team, its owner, and its management. Where's UrNotMe with his "Losing is a disease"?

Last night was a disaster, but I still believe the team was playing relatively well before then. Horrible to have that kind of effort against the Rangers of all teams, but I'm not writing off the season. Let's go out there and turn it around against Buffalo.

But if last night starts a trend and we're back where we started all over again, and if Cappy takes the fall only to be replaced by Weight, and if the only response from management is to weasel around the cap floor, the last thing I'm going to do is make excuses for it. Time for the folks in charge of this operation to turn the ship around here. I think we've milked the "Milbury" excuse for all it's worth, the arena issues are behind us now...if not now, when?
- UIF

BINGO!

Anyone who is saying this team is no better off than it was 5 years ago has clearly forgetten what this franchise looked like when Smyth bolted. The clubs only prospect was Okposo. Since then we've added Tavares, Strome, Hamonic, Poulin, Nilsson, Nino, Nelson, Cizikas, Donnovan, Mayfield, Martin, Ullstrom and a bunch of others. While the big team still struggles in waiting for those players to become NHL ready, the farm club is miles ahead of where it was making the overall all health of the francise far better than before.
Regardless of the reason, this team has had to do the rebuild with nearly no injection of free agent activity.

So while I understand, and share to a degree, the frustration that this team isn't a force after 5 years, I also am not going to make it sound as though we've only spun our wheels.

It's amazing, a 3 game losing streak with one VERY BAD performance and folks who were talking about how this team was finally turned the corner are now declaing the last 5 years a wreck. Talk about volatility!
- keaner17

Anyone who is saying this team is no better off than it was 5 years ago has clearly forgetten what this franchise looked like when Smyth bolted. The clubs only prospect was Okposo. Since then we've added Tavares, Strome, Hamonic, Poulin, Nilsson, Nino, Nelson, Cizikas, Donnovan, Mayfield, Martin, Ullstrom and a bunch of others. While the big team still struggles in waiting for those players to become NHL ready, the farm club is miles ahead of where it was making the overall all health of the francise far better than before.
Regardless of the reason, this team has had to do the rebuild with nearly no injection of free agent activity.

So while I understand, and share to a degree, the frustration that this team isn't a force after 5 years, I also am not going to make it sound as though we've only spun our wheels.

It's amazing, a 3 game losing streak with one VERY BAD performance and folks who were talking about how this team was finally turned the corner are now declaing the last 5 years a wreck. Talk about volatility!
- keaner17

with the good start this year i was reminded of last year when they did the same thing then tanked for about 15 games. I was encouraged by their play but worried about the goals against and when they'd start to slide. Looks like they're right on schedule. I did not expect them to make the playoffs but was hoping they'd be more competitive this season, thus far, not impressed. We've allowed 34 goals in 10 games and somehow won 4 of them. If this trend continues that 4 isn't going to be added to very often.

Not trolling but did you fellers see this?


Larry Brooks
@NYP_Brooksie
20m
Bill Daly tells Post via email that if Tim Thomas does not return to NHL, cap hit goes away after this season even if NYI toll the contract.

We have to stop setting our standards and expectations so low. We're bringing up the Phoenix Coyotes...and then talking about how we're not comparable because they're in a better position than we are? What are we even doing in the league at that point? At least we haven't been the Oilers for the last six seasons? C'mon fellas, Let's aim a little higher and expect more from the team, its owner, and its management. Where's UrNotMe with his "Losing is a disease"?

Last night was a disaster, but I still believe the team was playing relatively well before then. Horrible to have that kind of effort against the Rangers of all teams, but I'm not writing off the season. Let's go out there and turn it around against Buffalo.

But if last night starts a trend and we're back where we started all over again, and if Cappy takes the fall only to be replaced by Weight, and if the only response from management is to weasel around the cap floor, the last thing I'm going to do is make excuses for it. Time for the folks in charge of this operation to turn the ship around here. I think we've milked the "Milbury" excuse for all it's worth, the arena issues are behind us now...if not now, when?
- UIF[/quote]

Agreed here and this is what's so perplexing about the ship jumping mentality. We're 10 games in at about .500. Last night was our most dismal showing of the season, a season in which I think we've played with heart so far. However, it's how the team reacts from this point on that will tell us if things have changed at all. If we get more of the same and see the wheels truly begin to come off only to see band aids placed on the wounds, then I think we know they're just going through the motions until Barclays. But we just saw a financial maneuver last night that indicates this team may be preparing to take action in some fashion or the other. I'd prefer we damn this rebuild at the end of the year or at least once we're eliminated from the playoff contention, rather than after our first facepalm experience of the year.

Anyone who is saying this team is no better off than it was 5 years ago has clearly forgetten what this franchise looked like when Smyth bolted. The clubs only prospect was Okposo. Since then we've added Tavares, Strome, Hamonic, Poulin, Nilsson, Nino, Nelson, Cizikas, Donnovan, Mayfield, Martin, Ullstrom and a bunch of others. While the big team still struggles in waiting for those players to become NHL ready, the farm club is miles ahead of where it was making the overall all health of the francise far better than before.
Regardless of the reason, this team has had to do the rebuild with nearly no injection of free agent activity.

So while I understand, and share to a degree, the frustration that this team isn't a force after 5 years, I also am not going to make it sound as though we've only spun our wheels.

It's amazing, a 3 game losing streak with one VERY BAD performance and folks who were talking about how this team was finally turned the corner are now declaing the last 5 years a wreck. Talk about volatility!
- keaner17

The only players on that list that have proven anything is Tavares, Hamonic and maybe Martin....I only say maybe to Martin because he's not a player that's going to make a hugh impact...he's a GREAT role player. All the rest are just prospects. I hope they all pan out, but man, how long are we supposed to wait to see? Like UIF pointed out, our expectations are super low, and they have been for a long long time.

Oh, and I love what I've seen from Cizikas and Ullstrom so far, but they are far from proven.

And just to add....

While it can be argued that we are somewhat better than we were 5 years ago (only because we have JT now and didn't have him back then), the teams around us have gotten exponentially better than us without being in a "rebuild".
- Charlie21

What were they rebuilding and what were/are we rebuilding? Answer: they make a few big Free Agent purchases and sprinkle in developed projects who have been in their farm system.
We have been rebuilding our whole franchise, AHL and NHL without any free agent activity. That's a HUGE difference.

The only players on that list that have proven anything is Tavares, Hamonic and maybe Martin....I only say maybe to Martin because he's not a player that's going to make a hugh impact...he's a GREAT role player. All the rest are just prospects. I hope they all pan out, but man, how long are we supposed to wait to see? Like UIF pointed out, our expectations are super low, and they have been for a long long time.

Oh, and I love what I've seen from Cizikas and Ullstrom so far, but they are far from proven.
- Charlie21

Correct! Which is why our rebuild is different than your typical rebuild. We are rebuilding completely from the bottom up with prospects. Regardless of what the reason is, we haven't had the luxury of attracting even a glance from the leagues top Free Agents and that won't change for another year or two.

Better drafting or better development? Don't you think Baily and Nino might of been developed poorly and rushed?
- mrhattrick27

There is no question they were. But Bailey was a reach a #9 in the draft his year. He was clearly ruined and rushed, probably could have topped out as a #2 center, but now will likely top out as a third-line player. Nino was also being ruined, but they did the right thing (amazingly) by leaving him in the "A" all year. Now, he's among the "A"s leaders in scoring.

Not trolling but did you fellers see this?


Larry Brooks
@NYP_Brooksie
20m
Bill Daly tells Post via email that if Tim Thomas does not return to NHL, cap hit goes away after this season even if NYI toll the contract.
- DONMURDOCH14

Interesting. So if we deal Nabby at the trade deadline and somehow manage to get Thomas in as next years goalie, he comes with no charge to the cap. That should also make his rights pretty tradeable.

Interesting thought: When Nabby decided to resign with us, he requested a 2 year deal. The Isles gave him 1. I wonder if he wanted that 2 year deal because he thought it may make it more likely that the Isles could trade him this year after failing to get any real interest last season.

This team is a better team today than they were 5 years ago... anybody that doesn't see that, there is no help for you...

Not trolling but did you fellers see this?


Larry Brooks
@NYP_Brooksie
20m
Bill Daly tells Post via email that if Tim Thomas does not return to NHL, cap hit goes away after this season even if NYI toll the contract.
- DONMURDOCH14

They won't toll the contract!!!

They just want the virtual salary to stay above the cap floor.

The Predators are NOT comparable to the Isles as they owner is one of the richest in the entire league. They are in a favorable lease situation since the building is not that old. No cop out...FACT.
The Coyotes had plenty of assets and players in th organization before their woes began. In addition, they've had the NHL picking up their financial tabs for several years now, a luxury the isles have not had. None of those situations are comparable.
- keaner17

Come on. The Preds were about five seconds from relocation. The team may have a rich owner (which I cannot confirm nor deny), but that doesn't mean the team has a lot of $$. Wang is a billionaire. See any of that $$ going into the team? NO! The owner's personal wealth has nothing to do with that of the corporation that owns the team.

You're missing the boat on this. A lack or revenue does not stop a team from being able to successfully evaluate players, draft them then develop them. A lack of $$ also doesn't prevent a savvy GM from making trades or from icing a competitive team. the Coyotes and Predators are shining examples of this. You can't possibly say that both of those franchises are in ideal situations which perpetuate their competitive status year in and year out.

They won't toll the contract!!!

They just want the virtual salary to stay above the cap floor.
- jimmc7722

I wouldn't be so sure about that. They'd be foolish not to toll the contract if it's not going to hit their salary cap at all. Since Thomas is a USA boy, he fits right into Garth's pro US player group. Plus, if the Isles honor Nabby and give him a shot to play with a contender (provided we're out of it), they can basically restart the process by bringing in Thomas next year to split time with Poulin. (I'm assuming DP's contract becomes terminated under the Amnesty Clause).
Then we have another tradeable commodity at no cost to the team.

The only players on that list that have proven anything is Tavares, Hamonic and maybe Martin....I only say maybe to Martin because he's not a player that's going to make a hugh impact...he's a GREAT role player. All the rest are just prospects. I hope they all pan out, but man, how long are we supposed to wait to see? Like UIF pointed out, our expectations are super low, and they have been for a long long time.

Oh, and I love what I've seen from Cizikas and Ullstrom so far, but they are far from proven.
- Charlie21

You have to remember these kids are drafted @ 18 yrs old.

It's not like the NFL where they get drafted and make an impact right away.

Maybe they should wait until they are 20 yrs old... then we can move them directly to the big club or the AHL.

No more being trapped between the CHL and the NHL.

Anyone who is saying this team is no better off than it was 5 years ago has clearly forgetten what this franchise looked like when Smyth bolted. The clubs only prospect was Okposo. Since then we've added Tavares, Strome, Hamonic, Poulin, Nilsson, Nino, Nelson, Cizikas, Donnovan, Mayfield, Martin, Ullstrom and a bunch of others. While the big team still struggles in waiting for those players to become NHL ready, the farm club is miles ahead of where it was making the overall all health of the francise far better than before.
Regardless of the reason, this team has had to do the rebuild with nearly no injection of free agent activity.

So while I understand, and share to a degree, the frustration that this team isn't a force after 5 years, I also am not going to make it sound as though we've only spun our wheels.

It's amazing, a 3 game losing streak with one VERY BAD performance and folks who were talking about how this team was finally turned the corner are now declaing the last 5 years a wreck. Talk about volatility!
- keaner17

The farm system is in far better shape. The NHL product has not improved since Smyth left. That is what those who say the organization is not better off now than it was before the rebuild base their opinion on.

You have a lot of variables up there. I have been thinking about this today. Look at all the players the Isles have drafted since 2008. Of all those guys, how many really have high ceilings? JT, Nino, Strome, Poulin, Hamonic, Reinhart? I don't think you can say anyone else. It feels like most of the guys they've drafted are either busts or are going to top out as depth players. So yes, the organization is better off now, but not as better off as I'd expect it to be five years after a "rebuild" allegedly commenced and the team has picked in the neighborhood of sixty prospects during that time.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. They'd be foolish not to toll the contract if it's not going to hit their salary cap at all. Since Thomas is a USA boy, he fits right into Garth's pro US player group. Plus, if the Isles honor Nabby and give him a shot to play with a contender (provided we're out of it), they can basically restart the process by bringing in Thomas next year to split time with Poulin. (I'm assuming DP's contract becomes terminated under the Amnesty Clause).
Then we have another tradeable commodity at no cost to the team.
- keaner17

Maybe... I just don't know if Thomas is really interested in coming back.

And it wouldn't be @ no cost... it would be a second rounder!!!