He's never made an outlet pass until this year. Campbell did that for him in Florida!
- Iggysbff

Never once eh? Man you miss nothing. Where were you yesterday sport? Ian knew how to lure you in. A blog about a mans butt and you come in looking for pictures.

Not really. None of the mentioned stats are very indicative of much at all.
- rdfred

Explain to me why they're not...

did ya catch the on air interview today on Team 1040..gillis this morning, said he was in Washington & NY area to see collage players, the canucks maybe interested in drafting.... this trip was scheduled way before hand
- Canuckfan2006

Yeah, McKenzie also Tweeted the name of the player that they were scouting. IMO it's all being way overblown(big surprise).

Okay, you made me say it...I played pro and did some scouting. You also proved MY point in your little tantrum above. thanks chucky
- JLO961

My tantrum. OK...you mean my response to your insulting comment.

So I'm supposed to take your word that you played pro and that's why you know what your talking about. OK....

You really showed me...

From what I've seen of most of your posts, you seem like a pretty polite guy. Really not sure who pissed in your cornflakes today.

thanks....I don't have to type a lot because you just did. The guy with a solid +/- stat on a bad team shows how steady he is, how realiable he can be even when surrounded by weak players. Conversely, a player with a low +/- on a great team is complete sh1t. If you play with Crosby and Malkin and your personal +/- is poor, it shows that you can't play solid two way hockey on your own...you need the talented guys to support your game.

I can't believe I'm explaining this...actually, yeah, forgot I was on the Canucker board. lol

Seriously though, most important stat in the game in my opinion and high on the top of the list for most scouts, especially at the lower levels.
- JLO961

Ron Francis, Mark Recchi, Dale Howerchuk, Joe Sakik, Adam Oates, Brett Hull (do I need to go on?) all say hi.

Not really. None of the mentioned stats are very indicative of much at all.
- rdfred

Corsi isn't, but I think Rel Corsi and Rel Corsi QOC are pretty good indicators. Along with other things like penalties taken/drawn per 6 mins, offensive zone start % and offensive zone finish %. A lot of NHL teams are hiring guys to analyze these stats.

Agreed. Corsi is still a far better stat than +/-, though.

And that guy has the gall to insult Canucks fans IQ
- Fosco

Silly me, I would prefer the puck to GO IN and STAY OUT, rather than count the shot attempts. It's an interesting stat though, no doubt, Calling it a better measure than +/- is inconsistent logic though, it's indirectly measuring relatively similar performance.

Du8nyk's not bad, at least he isn't Khabibu71n
- DariusKnight

Hey's okay, but not in the same league as Luongo or Schneider... in my opinion

Holy (frank). Ignorance, and name calling to boot.

Corsi and rel Corsi are far more indicative of a players offensive and defensive ability.

+/- can be impacted by the linemates/players a player plays with.

An example. Frank Corrado before being traded to the Kitchener Rangers was a minus 3, since traded he is a plus 12.

Frank is not playing better hockey, he is now on a better team.

You call me an idiot. +/- is widely considered only important in certain contexts by pro scouts and major hockey pundits.

Do a bit of research before you start calling names...

Seriously, wow.
- Fosco

great post.

Silly me, I would prefer the puck to GO IN and STAY OUT, rather than count the shot attempts. It's an interesting stat though, no doubt, Calling it a better measure than +/- is inconsistent logic though, it's indirectly measuring relatively similar performance.
- JLO961

A player can step on the ice a second before a goal was scored and get a plus, or before a goal was scored on their team and get a minus.

Relative Corsi measures the amount of pucks directed at a team/other-teams net in 60 minutes of hockey while that player was on the ice.

It gives a far better picture of puck possession, and offensive and defensive ability than simple +/-, which is affected far more by other players on the team.

Obviously the only stat that really matters are wins, but advanced stats can measure a players ability better than +/-.

Silly me, I would prefer the puck to GO IN and STAY OUT, rather than count the shot attempts. It's an interesting stat though, no doubt, Calling it a better measure than +/- is inconsistent logic though, it's indirectly measuring relatively similar performance.
- JLO961

you still have to use common sense.

Hey's okay, but not in the same league as Luongo or Schneider... in my opinion
- JLO961

Wow. You are quite the charmer.

There was contact. I didn't feel it was enough contact to warrant a PS in overtime. Mind you they'd called a few weak ones on both teams earlier in the game, so I guess it was par for the course.

Not sure what I've ever done do you to be the recipient of all these stinging barbs...
- Fosco

Sincerely sorry bro, not meant to be personal really...I just get annoyed by this kind of stuff. That was a textbook canopener (actually quite good, but illegal) defensive play. The ref was equally alert to catch it...although it's quite common so not that hard to spot I guess. I just said you didn't have a clue what that play and call was about, because it seems so obvious to me, but sorry if I offended you because you didn't see it. I can be harsh with the rhetoric sometimes. What do I care? I don't know you...lol just kidding...sort of.

Hey's okay, but not in the same league as Luongo or Schneider... in my opinion
- JLO961

I like Dubnyk. I think he's a lower tier #1. Still a decent goalie.

Explain to me why they're not...
- Fosco

Really? That's a lot of ground to cover. But simplistically, no stats will explain how well a player is doing better than watching the game and the player. I do know the essence of the (so-called) advanced stats view, but as in Baseball, they haven't proven to be of more than limited usefulness. They are also filled with variables that are dependent on too many factors to be truly meaningful. Basically, to me, they paint a picture that I can already see on the ice.

Or maybe I'm just one for simplicity. No stats could have shown me that Raymond was other than terrible last season.

Sincerely sorry bro, not meant to be personal really...I just get annoyed by this kind of stuff. That was a textbook canopener (actually quite good, but illegal) defensive play. The ref was equally alert to catch it...although it's quite common so not that hard to spot I guess. I just said you didn't have a clue what that play and call was about, because it seems so obvious to me, but sorry if I offended you because you didn't see it. I can be harsh with the rhetoric sometimes. What do I care? I don't know you...lol just kidding...sort of.
- JLO961

I'm pretty sure the term "can opener" refers to the placement of the defending players stick between the legs of the other player and then twisting it to unbalance him/her.

So, while there was definitely a hook on the play, one which still allowed Hall to shoot and in my opinion, should have been a 2 min minor and not a penalty shot. And don't give me any BS about he shot it into the corner, because on the penalty shot he shot it right into Luongo's pad, so maybe his aim just isn't that good.

Wow Crombeen just got KO'd by Rinaldo!

Sincerely sorry bro, not meant to be personal really...I just get annoyed by this kind of stuff. That was a textbook canopener (actually quite good, but illegal) defensive play. The ref was equally alert to catch it...although it's quite common so not that hard to spot I guess. I just said you didn't have a clue what that play and call was about, because it seems so obvious to me, but sorry if I offended you because you didn't see it. I can be harsh with the rhetoric sometimes. What do I care? I don't know you...lol just kidding...sort of.
- JLO961

You're entitled to your opinion. I feel that to call a penalty shot in OT, there needs to be more than minimal contact with a guys armpit. Hall was able to get a shot off, the hook impeded him from getting it on net. Should have been a minor penalty.

Honestly, it didn't look like a can opener to me at all. It looked like a bit of a hook under the arm. A can opener is usually an attempt to haul the guy down. There wasn't even close to enough contact to bring Hall down.

I'm pretty sure the term "can opener" refers to the placement of the defending players stick between the legs of the other player and then twisting it to unbalance him/her.

So, while there was definitely a hook on the play, one which still allowed Hall to shoot and in my opinion, should have been a 2 min minor and not a penalty shot. And don't give me any BS about he shot it into the corner, because on the penalty shot he shot it right into Luongo's pad, so maybe his aim just isn't that good.
- 1970vintage

That's actually the correct original "can opener". good call. There isn't really a name for the little hook on the inside of the wrist to open the hands up and lose the puck...we just called it the can opener also. Your definition is more widely used I think, especially by Dmen in the slot.

This is likely the only forum on the planet arguing whether it's a penalty or not.

That's actually the correct original "can opener". good call. There isn't really a name for the little hook on the inside of the wrist to open the hands up and lose the puck...we just called it the can opener also. Your definition is more widely used I think, especially by Dmen in the slot.

This is likely the only forum on the planet arguing whether it's a penalty or not.
- JLO961

Oh it was a penalty, that's not being argued, at least not by me.

Really? That's a lot of ground to cover. But simplistically, no stats will explain how well a player is doing better than watching the game and the player. I do know the essence of the (so-called) advanced stats view, but as in Baseball, they haven't proven to be of more than limited usefulness. They are also filled with variables that are dependent on too many factors to be truly meaningful. Basically, to me, they paint a picture that I can already see on the ice.

Or maybe I'm just one for simplicity. No stats could have shown me that Raymond was other than terrible last season.
- rdfred

I literally used to use the same example, using Raymond as evidence, when I would try to discredit advanced stats, before I did a bit of research.

Raymond had decent Corsi. He was effective in directing more shots at the opposing teams net than was directed at his own. I agree, that it doesn't take into context the pathetic quality of most of those shots. Basically it means Raymond is a competent hockey player, not that he is an effective offensive player. Nobody has had any issues with Raymond's D, though.

Corsi by itself is not the greatest stat, but more can be taken from it of a player's overall play than +/-, which is what essentially it tries to replace.

As I said, rel Corsi coupled with QOC is a very good indicator of a players offensive/defensive ability, because it takes into account Corsi for a single player for 60 minutes while that player is on the ice, and only 60 minutes of that player, and measures it with the quality of players that player is out on the ice against.

In the end, only wins matter, but advanced stats are valuable in conjunction with other stats, as well as game observations.

That's actually the correct original "can opener". good call. There isn't really a name for the little hook on the inside of the wrist to open the hands up and lose the puck...we just called it the can opener also. Your definition is more widely used I think, especially by Dmen in the slot.

This is likely the only forum on the planet arguing whether it's a penalty or not.
- JLO961

You need to watch your tone. Name calling and insults aren't tolerated in this forum.

You need to watch your tone. Name calling and insults aren't tolerated in this forum.
- micah555

Schneider starts next game or do we stick with Lu?

Thanks, LOL


- 1970vintage

Thats so fake. Wrestling that is... so 1990s.

On another topic... who would take the tiem to make a picture like this. It is so random. You right as well photoshop a head onto Gozilla and another onto a Japanese building.