I think if you're going to be a good player, you'll be a good player. How many highly toted guys struggle on one team, are traded, and still struggle? Don't really think were you play has all that much to do with your progression. Maybe a small amount but not enough to make a star into a 3rd line forward or 3rd pairing dman.
- NickTheKid87

With all due respect I totally disagree with this. The Detroit Red Wings are probably the best example of late picks and nobodys becoming stars. They partly succeeded because the supporting cast was already strong. Why does Columbus have such a poor track record with first round picks (exception Nash and that was a nobrainer) How good could Nash have been in Detroit, Nash got very few assists in Columbus because nobody else could score. In Detroit I would be he would have scored as much and doubled his assists. Just my opinion but I firmly believe that to be the case.

agreeed, flyers should be looking for diamonds in the rough...matty carle and braydon coburn were unknowns practically before they got to philly.
- Flyers4Life88

Coburn and Carle were hardly unknowns. Coburn was taken 8th right in front of Phaneuf, Brown and Carter in 2003, one of the deepest, skilled drafts in the last 40 years. Carle was taken in the second round the same year and by the time he left college he was the top defenseman in the NCAA. He walked right in and established himself on a very talented SJ Sharks team.

With all due respect I totally disagree with this. The Detroit Red Wings are probably the best example of late picks and nobodys becoming stars. They partly succeeded because the supporting cast was already strong. Why does Columbus have such a poor track record with first round picks (exception Nash and that was a nobrainer) How good could Nash have been in Detroit, Nash got very few assists in Columbus because nobody else could score. In Detroit I would be he would have scored as much and doubled his assists. Just my opinion but I firmly believe that to be the case.
- flyerdude17

You seriously believe that Z and Datsyuk are the players they are today because they ended up on a good team?

agreeed, flyers should be looking for diamonds in the rough...matty carle and braydon coburn were unknowns practically before they got to philly.
- Flyers4Life88

Coburn definitely. Carle wasn't exactly unknown, but did play his first three years in SJ which only made him seem so out here on the east coast. I'm sure Homer's beating all the bushes.

does anybody else think the blue jackets got the better of the nash trade?

With all due respect I totally disagree with this. The Detroit Red Wings are probably the best example of late picks and nobodys becoming stars. They partly succeeded because the supporting cast was already strong. Why does Columbus have such a poor track record with first round picks (exception Nash and that was a nobrainer) How good could Nash have been in Detroit, Nash got very few assists in Columbus because nobody else could score. In Detroit I would be he would have scored as much and doubled his assists. Just my opinion but I firmly believe that to be the case.
- flyerdude17

Let's take Brad Richards for example. He scored 91 points in 80 games in 09/10 and 77 points in 72 games in 10/11 with the Stars. Last year he scored 66 points in 82 games, an obvious drop, mostly due to the different systems (offensive v. defensive), but nobody thinks he's a worse player than he was in Dallas.

Basically what I'm saying is that people know if a player is good by watching him. Richards is a good player, we can see that, even if his point per game total decreased. Nobody sees Derrick Brassard and says "that guy could put up 70+ points on a good team". You can tell if a player is good and for the most part, guys put up numbers that fit their level of play. The only guy I can think of that should put up more points than he does is Stephen Weiss.

does anybody else think the blue jackets got the better of the nash trade?
- flyerscup2011

I think it benefits both teams...

I personally think CBJ will see a better jump because of it... makes them a more complete team, but they definitely lost a lot in just Nash.

Coburn and Carle were hardly unknowns. Coburn was taken 8th right in front of Phaneuf, Brown and Carter in 2003, one of the deepest, skilled drafts in the last 40 years. Carle was taken in the second round the same year and by the time he left college he was the top defenseman in the NCAA. He walked right in and established himself on a very talented SJ Sharks team.
- mayorofangrytown

I think Carle was under appreciated in Philly. He was a good whipping boy, however, he was hardly, if ever, injured. Had plenty of assists. The only thing that really haunted him were his turnovers. But, I understand it's hard to play with a HOF'er in Pronger and be very successful and then turn aound and play with MAB and expected to produce the same. His worries with Pronger back there were so small, with someone that didn't have Pronger's statue, it really amplified his mistakes.

Coburn played 38 games in Atlanta and was 21 when he got to Philly. Defensemen generally progress slower than forwards. They had to give up some assets for Carle as well including Steve Downie.
- NickTheKid87

My point exactly, Rundblad is 22 and has already won MVP of swedish elite league, point a game guy in AHL and waiting for the opportunity to do it in the NHL. According to you he is still 6 year away from reaching his prime.

Let's take Brad Richards for example. He scored 91 points in 80 games in 09/10 and 77 points in 72 games in 10/11 with the Stars. Last year he scored 66 points in 82 games, an obvious drop, mostly due to the different systems (offensive v. defensive), but nobody thinks he's a worse player than he was in Dallas.

Basically what I'm saying is that people know if a player is good by watching him. Richards is a good player, we can see that, even if his point per game total decreased. Nobody sees Derrick Brassard and says "that guy could put up 70+ points on a good team". You can tell if a player is good and for the most part, guys put up numbers that fit their level of play. The only guy I can think of that should put up more points than he does is Stephen Weiss.
- NickTheKid87

I think it benefits both teams...

I personally think CBJ will see a better jump because of it... makes them a more complete team, but they definitely lost a lot in just Nash.
- jak521

Nash was done in Columbus, need a change of scenery. Dubinsky is a terrific all round player, solid third liner and the whole key is Anisimov who has the potential to be a great one. I like this trade for Columbus. I like this trade for the Rangers. This was a good trade for both teams.

My point exactly, Rundblad is 22 and has already won MVP of swedish elite league, point a game guy in AHL and waiting for the opportunity to do it in the NHL. According to you he is still 6 year away from reaching his prime.
- flyerdude17

When?

Also, in 63 career AHL games he has 39 points....

My point exactly, Rundblad is 22 and has already won MVP of swedish elite league, point a game guy in AHL and waiting for the opportunity to do it in the NHL. According to you he is still 6 year away from reaching his prime.
- flyerdude17

lets get em

I think it benefits both teams...

I personally think CBJ will see a better jump because of it... makes them a more complete team, but they definitely lost a lot in just Nash.
- jak521

while it improved the rangers' top line i think it downgraded their team as a whole. dubinsky and anisimov provide a lot of grit and both were effective against the flyers. i don't understand why the rags thought they needed to make such a big trade, they were on a scary good path IMO.

I really thought Homer would have pulled the trigger on a trade by today. I have a feeling he is going to hold off and try to do his dealings this summer which I think is a very wise move. I don't think we will be drafting anyone in the firt 2 rounds(I know we have a first and 2 seconds), I think they will be gone due to Homer trading them for players. Now that players can talk a week eariler, I think Homer will trade these picks to make sure he gets who he wants.
- Deasr1

I thought the Flyers have 1 first and 1 second?

I thought the Flyers have 1 first and 1 second?
- jstross

the flyers are prohibited from having any 2nd round draft picks. it's in the charter.

You seriously believe that Z and Datsyuk are the players they are today because they ended up on a good team?
- jak521

I was waiting for this comeback. If Datsyuk or Z had arrived by themself in Columbus the chances are good they would have not been as successful. They came into a system that was already very strong, had Lidstrom and there obviousl talent was allowed to grow. They never experienced a confidence drop because the rest of the team was doing poop like Columbus.

Coburn and Carle were hardly unknowns. Coburn was taken 8th right in front of Phaneuf, Brown and Carter in 2003, one of the deepest, skilled drafts in the last 40 years. Carle was taken in the second round the same year and by the time he left college he was the top defenseman in the NCAA. He walked right in and established himself on a very talented SJ Sharks team.
- mayorofangrytown

This.

Furthermore, if Atlanta wasn't pushing to make the playoffs in 2007 and wanted a veteran defenseman (we gave them Alexei Zhitnik), they may never have traded Coburn in the first place.

My point exactly, Rundblad is 22 and has already won MVP of swedish elite league, point a game guy in AHL and waiting for the opportunity to do it in the NHL. According to you he is still 6 year away from reaching his prime.
- flyerdude17

I don't remember saying that... I was arguing that playing for a bad team doesn't make you develop into a lesser player.

I thought the Flyers have 1 first and 1 second?
- jstross

For Bob

I was waiting for this comeback. If Datsyuk or Z had arrived by themself in Columbus the chances are good they would have not been as successful. They came into a system that was already very strong, had Lidstrom and there obviousl talent was allowed to grow. They never experienced a confidence drop because the rest of the team was doing poop like Columbus.
- flyerdude17

You are right that they would probably have produced less, however, that doesn't make them any worse of a player. Nash didn't do much his last few years in Columbus yet we all recognize that he is a premier goal scorer.

I was waiting for this comeback. If Datsyuk or Z had arrived by themself in Columbus the chances are good they would have not been as successful. They came into a system that was already very strong, had Lidstrom and there obviousl talent was allowed to grow. They never experienced a confidence drop because the rest of the team was doing poop like Columbus.
- flyerdude17

I couldnt disagree anymore. Sometimes, teams have inside knowledge of certain skill sets, due to supreme scouting. It isnt a secret that Detroit has one of the best overseas scouts in Hakkan Andersson.

You are right that they would probably have produced less, however, that doesn't make them any worse of a player. Nash didn't do much his last few years in Columbus yet we all recognize that he is a premier goal scorer.
- NickTheKid87

Stats and skills are not directly proportional... doesnt mean the player is a bust.

When?

Also, in 63 career AHL games he has 39 points....
- jak521

Your a pretty negative guy there Jak521 but that is what makes the world go round. I believe Rundblad had 29 points in 30 games this year but he is still 6 years away from his prime
Also, the Briere argument does not fly because in Phoenix he played with Roenick and Tkachuk, a great confidence booster. Unlike Brassard playing with Umberger and IP Nightly.

You are right that they would probably have produced less, however, that doesn't make them any worse of a player. Nash didn't do much his last few years in Columbus yet we all recognize that he is a premier goal scorer.
- NickTheKid87

nick cousins leads the OHL in scoring...didnt know that til just now