Ya bench the player who is easily the best player on the team

Ya, I can see how we don't see eye to eye on things.


- faceto27

At least Kessel is showing one good thing. The fallacy of this team being a playoff contender.

We went into this season, believing that it was our goaltending that was our biggest problem. We also thought our defense was adequate but not too flashy. We also had balanced scoring, but need a first line center.

I guess those theories are out the window. A first line center? Yes, that is legitimate. However, we don't have balanced scoring, our defense is garbage and our farm system is still very shallow.

How has this team changed under Carlyle? More goons, who cost us games, AHLer's playing top line minutes in our own end, rookies leading the team in scoring. All of our established veterans are doing nothing. No goals from Kessel, MacArthur, Phaneuf, Liles, and very little offence from Kulimen, Grabovski and Bozak. The powerplay is putrid and our penalty killing is only slightly improved. If it were not for Reimer, we'd be in dead last, in the conference.

So I guess the needle on the compass should be pointing in the direction of tank....... Now is the time to maximize our assets and trade them. High end draft picks and prospects are the way this team needs to be constructed. Better to do it now, before they go UFA. I couldn't care less about a goal that was called back, in both of the two last games. It was actually favourable for this to happen. It'll probably save us a few spots in the draft in a few weeks. I'm hoping that we go on a losing streak and we'll all feel better about it, come June. Screw the idea of this team, ever being a Cup contender, let alone a playoff contender. There just isn't enough upside to convince me otherwise.

but he isnt creating lanes for himself

when he is scoring he drives the net regardless of a defender being there or not

i guess thats my point. he is staying to the outside too much. take the bump and go to the net. he will start scoring.

maybe if i put it this way:

poopty slumping kessel = blake at his best

kessel playing his A game = blake to the power of a billion

is that better?
- Dozzer

No more Blake talk

Lets discuss his slump and his lack of production, but player comparison isnt fair or getting us anywhere.

I will however agree with the notion that he has to stop this "pull up" trick he keeps getting burned on. Either keep driving to the net, shoot or dump...but the pull up and stop act is only forcing him to lose the puck/turn it over.

I hear what you're saying, but I've yet to hear somebody give some concrete examples of things he should be doing differently.

All you hear is basically a variation on the same "he needs to go to the net more" platitude.

How? If Kessel could drive the net on a 1-on-3, I'm sure he would. There is, in fact, nobody in the NHL who drives the net on a 1-on-3 successfully (aside the odd highlight reel goal that you see once per year).

The reason Kessel looks like a perimieter shooter is because he gets chances that literally nobody else on the ice would get. So what's he going to do? Dump the puck into the corner and head to the bench rather than take a shot?

It's like the error stat in baseball. Sometimes, very good defensive players get charged with errors simply because they fail to make a play on a ball that nobody else would get to.
- Leeman4Gilmour

all i want from him is to drive to the centre of the ice.. take his lumps

the speed in which he does so (when he is doing it) puts the opposition d back on their heels

this will create more scrums in front of the net.. allowing his linemates to bang in some rebounds.. or hell.. even kessel himself.

it all starts with getting the puck to the net and creating havoc.. thats what he needs to do to break out of his slump. then the perimeter wrist shots will start finding their way into the back of the net as well. why? because the goalies wont be able to think to themselves "here comes the wrist shot" and set for it

if the goalie and the D are guessing as to what kessel might do thats only going to bode well for kessel. right now tho, they arent. he;s playing very predictable.

Last night, first period. Kessel put himself in perfect position for an easy tap-in.

And Bozak can't put the puck on his tape - the defenceman tips the pass.

That's not Kessel's fault - it's 100% Bozak.
- Atomic Wedgie

The defenseman was also completely free to move because Kessel, instead of battling in front of the net in order to finally get a goal this season, be it his ugliest goal ever, decided to float behind him.

No more Blake talk

Lets discuss his slump and his lack of production, but player comparison isnt fair or getting us anywhere.

I will however agree with the notion that he has to stop this "pull up" trick he keeps getting burned on. Either keep driving to the net, shoot or dump...but the pull up and stop act is only forcing him to lose the puck/turn it over.
- systemtool

hence my ja....

(frank) it.. yes youre right.. the bolded, thats what i mean.. no need to reference anyone else who had a habit of doing the same thing

Jim Ralpf said this morning that if he doesn't score this week the heat/pressure is going to start...


I agree with him..
- Fruitcakenipple

Me too.

At some point, you just have to be held accountable. I think we should allow more patience for a guy who is young but proven to be an elite goal scorer. Cant do it forever though.

Good idea Bruce




P.S. You're still my favorite zebra
- faceto27

hence my ja....

(frank) it.. yes youre right.. the bolded, thats what i mean.. no need to reference anyone else who had a habit of doing the same thing
- Dozzer

If Blake and Kessel had comparable careers, then its fair to compare the two.

But we're comparing a 34 year old Blake (when he was with the team), to a 25 year old Kessel. The 34 year old has only a single season of above 30 goals, while the 25 year old has had 4 consecutive already. Not fair at all.

Me too.

At some point, you just have to be held accountable. I think we should allow more patience for a guy who is young but proven to be an elite goal scorer. Cant do it forever though.
- systemtool

Is Michael Ryder an Elite goal scorer?

Is Michael Ryder an Elite goal scorer?
- Pecafan Fan

He is if Kessel is considered one...

I think the talk of benching Kessel is a bit overboard.

I realize its nine games into a 48 game season, and that's far too long for your best offsensive player to go without a goal. But when its a matter of needing to get one for confidence and the flood gates to open.. a benching isn't the best move.

I've had issues with Kessel's game before, (lack of back checking, fore checking, general effort at time), but I would say at this point, the other areas of his game are greatly improved from previous seasons.

I've seen him win battles in the corner, back check, etc.

And yes, no matter how you slice it, playing with Bozak will hurt your chances of scoring.

Nothing against Bozak, but c'mon considering he is a number 1 center he should be on par or close to the likes of guys like:

Tavares, Spezza, Sharp, Richards, Backstrom, Thornton, Staal, Kopitar, B Richards, Malkin, Toews, Crosby, Getzlaf, Datsyuk, Sedin...

See my point?

If Blake and Kessel had comparable careers, then its fair to compare the two.

But we're comparing a 34 year old Blake (when he was with the team), to a 25 year old Kessel. The 34 year old has only a single season of above 30 goals, while the 25 year old has had 4 consecutive already. Not fair at all.
- systemtool

But has Kessel ever scored 40? Blake has

ok ok, I'm kidding. Sort've.

Is Michael Ryder an Elite goal scorer?
- Pecafan Fan

Has he had 4 consecutive 30 goal seasons? Are there many players in the last few seaons in league that have?

Sorry, but you're suggesting I compare a vet with only two 30 goal compaigns to a young player with 4 already? Do I have it right?

If Blake and Kessel had comparable careers, then its fair to compare the two.

But we're comparing a 34 year old Blake (when he was with the team), to a 25 year old Kessel. The 34 year old has only a single season of above 30 goals, while the 25 year old has had 4 consecutive already. Not fair at all.
- systemtool

Nobody is comparing their careers. The only thing that is being compared is the idiotic shot selection and location.

I think the talk of benching Kessel is a bit overboard.

I realize its nine games into a 48 game season, and that's far too long for your best offsensive player to go without a goal. But when its a matter of needing to get one for confidence and the flood gates to open.. a benching isn't the best move.


- dragus84

Agreed.

Nobody is comparing their careers. The only thing that is being compared is the idiotic shot selection and location.
- Two_For_Truth

Hes made some poor shots, sure, but hes also taken a lot more quality shots that just havent found the back of the net.

Is Michael Ryder an Elite goal scorer?
- Pecafan Fan

Did he play for the Leafs?

Has he had 4 consecutive 30 goal seasons? Are there many players in the last few seaons in league that have?

Sorry, but you're suggesting I compare a vet with only two 30 goal compaigns to a young player with 4 already? Do I have it right?
- systemtool

Actually, Ryder had 3, 30 goals seasons (35 last year), and one of 27 which he missed 10-or so games.

Elite, goal scorer.

Hes made some poor shots, sure, but hes also taken a lot more quality shots that just havent found the back of the net.
- systemtool

They haven't found the net for a reason. He's too predictable and takes too many low percentage shots.

They haven't found the net for a reason. He's too predictable and takes too many low percentage shots.
- Two_For_Truth

Can't really blame him. He wants to put it in at all costs.

That being said, he should go at the net all the time and just get a greasy tap-in / redirect type of goal to try and get going.

Actually, Ryder had 3, 30 goals seasons (35 last year), and one of 27 which he missed 10-or so games.

Elite, goal scorer.
- Pecafan Fan

Ryder is 32, Kessel is 25.



Kessel scored 30 twice while missing 12 games...

Ryder is 32, Kessel is 25.


- systemtool

Is he on pace to score 30 goals this season?

Can't really blame him. He wants to put it in at all costs.

That being said, he should go at the net all the time and just get a greasy tap-in / redirect type of goal to try and get going.
- Pecafan Fan

If Kessel wanted to put it in at all costs, he would pay the price and try something different rather than doing the exact same thing over and over again and expecting it to work.

Actually, Ryder had 3, 30 goals seasons (35 last year), and one of 27 which he missed 10-or so games.

Elite, goal scorer.
- Pecafan Fan

don't forget his first season of 25, Ryder had 85 goals and 176 points in his first 3 seasons.

Kessel didn't have a great first 2 years, so we will go with Kessels 3rd to 5th year as a fair comparision, 98goals and 179 points

Now Career,
Ryder 197G 396P in 549GP 0.721 PPG 0.359GPG
Kessel 165G 327P in 456GP 0.717 PPG 0.361GPG

Damn, you can't get much closer then that

don't forget his first season of 25, Ryder had 85 goals and 176 points in his first 3 seasons.

Kessel didn't have a great first 2 years, so we will go with Kessels 3rd to 5th year as a fair comparision, 98goals and 179 points

Now Career,
Ryder 197G 396P in 549GP 0.721 PPG 0.359GPG
Kessel 165G 327P in 456GP 0.717 PPG 0.361GPG

Damn, you can't get much closer then that
- Oilhab

Both playing with what can't be called legit 1st line centers.