Yes, thats when you trade him. When either doesnt want to resign, or wants insane amounts. Until thats a fact, you dont just trade him over assumptions. Especially just so you can finish lower in the standings.
- systemtool

Yes, only time will tell, but if Lupul and Grabo are making $5.25M and $5.5M NOW, you can bet that Phil will be in the neighborhood of $7.5M+ in a year and half.

Sorry, he's just not worth it.

no, it really isn't.
- Big_Lightnin

but but but...he assumed! It must be true!

Yes, only time will tell, but if Lupul and Grabo are making $5.25M and $5.5M NOW, you can bet that Phil will be in the neighborhood of $7.5M+ in a year and half.

Sorry, he's just not worth it.
- As_I_See_It

Those two should have been traded. Kessel will probably come in at around 6 - 6.5, and im fine with that. Anything more and you walk.

Very few players make 7.5+ a year, and Kessel being one of them is a reach at best.

Fellas fellas fellas why dont we just hug it out and all have a bowl of fruit loops???

no, it really isn't.
- Big_Lightnin

Just based on Lupul and Grabo's salaries now, $7.5M+ isn't too far off in a year and half.

What do you think Kessel's next deal with the Leafs could look like?

Fellas fellas fellas why dont we just hug it out and all have a bowl of fruit loops???
- LEAFSfan28191

As long as its not Lucky Charms. (frank) that gives me the poops, bad. Green poops.

As long as its not Lucky Charms. (frank) that gives me the poops, bad. Green poops.
- systemtool

Don't worry bro no one buy's lucky charms in Saskatchewan.

Trading Kessel is not a guarantee to bring you the elite player to build around. Trading Kessel is only a logical solution should his contract demands exceed what is fair value, or he has no intention of stayig here.

Kadri is producing enough to keep this team out of last. Does he get traded too? (frank), get rid of Frattin too. These guys are producing too much.
- systemtool

You're missing the point and being obtuse about it isn't going to make it any better. You don't trade Kadri or Frattin because while they occasionally produce, they aren't good enough to do what Kessel does. They're cheap and they're young, they don't drive the Leafs to 9th place but they don't drive the Leafs to 1st place either. That's exactly why the Leafs are still looking for the right guys to build around.

You can't keep Lupul and keep Kessel and then just magically expect the "right guy" to appear out of nowhere. The Leafs need to put themselves in the right position to be able to get that guy whether it's by trading Kessel to get him or by sinking low enough in the standings to draft him.

Look, to all the so-called "realists" here who claim the only way to ensure winning is to bottom out and rebuild, that may be true, but if you're a true realist you should know that's not something that big market teams do. The people who run big market teams don't think like that. Look at the other major market teams in the league. When's the last time the Rangers did a full rebuild? Or the Canadiens? Or the Bruins? Teams like Pittsburgh, Edmonton, Tampa Bay, they can do that because they exist in a different world. Right or wrong, big market teams just don't do what you're asking the Leafs to do. It's not just Toronto, none of them do it.

Don't worry bro no one buy's lucky charms in Saskatchewan.
- LEAFSfan28191

I have Just Right and Special K Almonds going at home right now. Delicious.

Trading Kessel is not a guarantee to bring you the elite player to build around. Trading Kessel is only a logical solution should his contract demands exceed what is fair value, or he has no intention of stayig here.

Kadri is producing enough to keep this team out of last. Does he get traded too? (frank), get rid of Frattin too. These guys are producing too much.
- systemtool

Agree we complain for years that we suck now we are complaining that are good players aren't good enough. Yes lets try and fail when they change the lottery rules how about we try to improve so that big name players will want to come here and we can get that guy through another route.

Those two should have been traded. Kessel will probably come in at around 6 - 6.5, and im fine with that. Anything more and you walk.

Very few players make 7.5+ a year, and Kessel being one of them is a reach at best.
- systemtool

Kessel, as a UFA, is definitely going to be going for the 7+ million dollar a year contract. If you're expecting him to take 6 million (a measly 600K a year increase from what he makes now) you're going to be very disappointed.

Those two should have been traded. Kessel will probably come in at around 6 - 6.5, and im fine with that. Anything more and you walk.

Very few players make 7.5+ a year, and Kessel being one of them is a reach at best.
- systemtool

Kessel remaining contract sees him making $5.1M then $5.4M. You think he settles for a $1M raise? No chance

You're missing the point and being obtuse about it isn't going to make it any better. You don't trade Kadri or Frattin because while they occasionally produce, they aren't good enough to do what Kessel does. They're cheap and they're young, they don't drive the Leafs to 9th place but they don't drive the Leafs to 1st place either. That's exactly why the Leafs are still looking for the right guys to build around.

You can't keep Lupul and keep Kessel and then just magically expect the "right guy" to appear out of nowhere. The Leafs need to put themselves in the right position to be able to get that guy whether it's by trading Kessel to get him or by sinking low enough in the standings to draft him.
- Two_For_Truth

Kessel and Lupul have not led this team anywhere near 9th place. Please accept reality if you want to have any form of credibility. Kadri and Frattin are young and developing and right now they have done more to help this team win than Kessel. Eventually it will even out, but they're proving so far to be good enough to lend a hand in keeping this team out of the basement.

Lupul just signed and isnt going anywhere. He is the guy who should have been traded, but we're talking Kessel right now.

I have Just Right and Special K Almonds going at home right now. Delicious.
- systemtool

Sick Bro! Special K is unreal!!

Kessel, as a UFA, is definitely going to be going for the 7+ million dollar a year contract. If you're expecting him to take 6 million (a measly 600K a year increase from what he makes now) you're going to be very disappointed.
- Two_For_Truth

With the cap going down, I'm not so sure about that. He doesn't play in a vacuum in Toronto. All the problems Leafs fans have with him are known throughout the league.

On the other hand, GMs do stupid things during free agency.

Fellas fellas fellas why dont we just hug it out and all have a bowl of fruit loops???
- LEAFSfan28191

Piss off!

It's ALPHABITS or nothing!

Just based on Lupul and Grabo's salaries now, $7.5M+ isn't too far off in a year and half.

What do you think Kessel's next deal with the Leafs could look like?
- As_I_See_It

7 years, $6.25M cap hit.

and I'm fine with that.

Why would Kessel be $2M more than Lupul, when they were on pace for same points and similar goals.

Kessel might get 1M more per year of open market as a UFA... MIGHT, but he gets 2 more years of security if he stays with Leafs, which ends up being a LOT more money overall.

Look, to all the so-called "realists" here who claim the only way to ensure winning is to bottom out and rebuild, that may be true, but if you're a true realist you should know that's not something that big market teams do. The people who run big market teams don't think like that. Look at the other major market teams in the league. When's the last time the Rangers did a full rebuild? Or the Canadiens? Or the Bruins? Teams like Pittsburgh, Edmonton, Tampa Bay, they can do that because they exist in a different world. Right or wrong, big market teams just don't do what you're asking the Leafs to do. It's not just Toronto, none of them do it.
- Jeffmt

What you have to understand here is that the Leafs are one of the few teams that can actually afford to do it. It costs them nothing. People won't disappear. They will support whatever the hell they decide to do. This is what they should be doing for the good of the franchise.

I don't expect Nonis to blow apart the team and rebuild properly. It's pretty clear that he has convinced himself that who he has now is good enough to build around. He's going to be wrong but I know that's the direction he's eventually going in. He made that obvious by keeping Lupul. He's going to keep the guys he has and go from there.

But it doesn't mean it's the right direction and it doesn't mean it's what they should be doing either.

Kessel remaining contract sees him making $5.1M then $5.4M. You think he settles for a $1M raise? No chance
- As_I_See_It

Who knows. Neither you or I know.

The difference is that im willing to wait and see what he wants as opposed to acting and calling shots based on nothing but assumption.

I didnt say he settles for a 1 million raise. I said thats what I offer and try to lock him down to. If he demands to much then yes you trade him.

All ive said from the start is that we should wait and see what Kessel wants and demands before we rush to judgement. You know, be logical about it and not panic and make calls based on knee jerk reactions.

Kessel remaining contract sees him making $5.1M then $5.4M. You think he settles for a $1M raise? No chance
- As_I_See_It

yup, cause he gets 2 more years as a Leaf... that's $12-13M more in guaranteed money.

Piss off!

It's ALPHABITS or nothing!
- As_I_See_It

Ok ok ok ok Any bowl of cereal!!

Piss off!

It's ALPHABITS or nothing!
- As_I_See_It

There seems to be two arguements here for trading Kessel. One is that he be traded so the team could tank.

The other is because he wont be worth a big raise.

Are you argueing a case for both or one of the two?

Ok ok ok ok Any bowl of cereal!!
- LEAFSfan28191

You didn't get the joke...

Kessel remaining contract sees him making $5.1M then $5.4M. You think he settles for a $1M raise? No chance
- As_I_See_It

He should get 1m less.