You effers know there's a new blog up, right?
- Atomic Wedgie

There is??

Should I bring the popcorn?

As per my posts to Tony Fernandez, I don't have a problem with that line of thinking. It's a different way of getting as much talent as you can. I'm just rejecting the notion of "building around."
- Atomic Wedgie

Mats Sundin. Why do you constantly ignore this example? It's painfully obvious that the Leafs were built around Sundin. Had they done a better job of laying the ground work when they acquired him, maybe they would have won something. It's the same idea but just improving on where they made their mistakes in the past.

Ultimately, though, I don't think you'd ever get enough for Kessel in a trade to make it worthwhile. Columbus isn't going to trade for him. You'll get a 1st rounder for him, but it's going to be in the 20-30 range.

Kessel will get far more than a 1st rounder. Far more. There are contenders out there who need goal scoring and they have a surplus of young top prospects they are willing to part with for immediate results.

Even if you completely ignore what you get for Kessel in a trade, just the fact that the Leafs are without Kessel, gives them an excellent opportunity to draft very high.

delays us from aquring any free agents that may help improve the team...like say a getzlaf or a perry for example.
- big_dion

Free agents are irrelevant right now. Getzlaf and Perry are half way finished their careers. Signing them is paying them for previous accomplishments. You get five years out of them instead of 10 had you drafted them. It's insanely inefficient way to build a team. It costs way more cap space and gives you half as much time. Sometimes, half as much productivity too.

If the Leafs build their team properly, free agents will come when the time is right. Adding them today is completely irrelevant and meaningless.

these guys are not exactly ancient...you could easily turn it around with one of them, and get lucky with a couple late firsts and early second/third round picks...

zetterberg, datsyuk, grabovski were all in the later round 4-7.

it happens, more often than not.

Grabovski has no place being mentioned anywhere near the name Datsyuk. Ever.

The Leafs have never been able to find guys like Datsyuk in later rounds. Why is it going to start happening now all of a sudden?

Mats Sundin. Why do you constantly ignore this example? It's painfully obvious that the Leafs were built around Sundin. Had they done a better job of laying the ground work when they acquired him, maybe they would have won something. It's the same idea but just improving on where they made their mistakes in the past.
.
- Two_For_Truth

Sundin completely invalidates your argument.

If the team was "built around him", why didn't they acquire wingers that specifically met his requirements?

Mats Sundin. Why do you constantly ignore this example? It's painfully obvious that the Leafs were built around Sundin. Had they done a better job of laying the ground work when they acquired him, maybe they would have won something. It's the same idea but just improving on where they made their mistakes in the past.



Kessel will get far more than a 1st rounder. Far more. There are contenders out there who need goal scoring and they have a surplus of young top prospects they are willing to part with for immediate results.

Even if you completely ignore what you get for Kessel in a trade, just the fact that the Leafs are without Kessel, gives them an excellent opportunity to draft very high.
- Two_For_Truth

Exactly what ground work had to be laid for sundin when they traded for him?

They had Gilmour, Clark, potvin.. Etc. they had just went to two conference finals.

Because that's all he does... he doesn't do anything else. He doesn't lead, he doesn't help defensively, he doesn't check, he doesn't play physically, the list goes on. You don't build a team around someone like that, you just don't; if you can't get that, then there's no need for us to continue this conversation which you've tried to end a few times now.
- Conquest

You're wrong there - defense is a broad term that encompasses more than muscle and brawn. No he doesn't check, nor play physically - which is redundant - but thankfully you have no say in the operation of the franchise.

Sundin completely invalidates your argument.

If the team was "built around him", why didn't they acquire wingers that specifically met his requirements?
- Atomic Wedgie

Sundin does not invalidate the argument. It shows you how the Leafs have had success by building around one guy that was worthy of it. The problem was the rest of the process that followed. The acquired Sundin and that was it. They didn't hit the draft table and acquire more guys that were as talented as Sundin.

This serves to show how the Leafs can improve on where they have gone wrong in the past. You get the one guy you can build around and then you proceed to get him some guys to play with. But instead of trying to do it on the fly, year by year, you do it from the start and give yourself more time to get the rest of the team in order.

Exactly what ground work had to be laid for sundin when they traded for him?

They had Gilmour, Clark, potvin.. Etc. they had just went to two conference finals.
- joel878

The lack of ground work around Sundin is exactly my point. The point is for the Leafs to avoid making the same mistake again. The fact that they had Sundin was good but the fact that they didn't continue drafting well and building around him from the start is bad. If the Leafs were wise, they would seek to avoid making that mistake again. But first, they need to lay some ground work and find at least one guy worth building around.

Sundin does not invalidate the argument. It shows you how the Leafs have had success by building around one guy that was worthy of it. The problem was the rest of the process that followed. The acquired Sundin and that was it. They didn't hit the draft table and acquire more guys that were as talented as Sundin.

This serves to show how the Leafs can improve on where they have gone wrong in the past. You get the one guy you can build around and then you proceed to get him some guys to play with. But instead of trying to do it on the fly, year by year, you do it from the start and give yourself more time to get the rest of the team in order.
- Two_For_Truth

The build around one player argument is foolish.

Pittsburgh didn't even build around Crosby. They brought in fleury, Malkin.. And then lucked out on Crosby. Staal, orpik came after.. And the rest was done with free agent signings and trades.

There is no set way, a blueprint, to building a championship team that only you are aware of. There's been many cup winners with many different formats.

The tank and draft notion is among the very small percentile of those formats.

The lack of ground work around Sundin is exactly my point. The point is for the Leafs to avoid making the same mistake again. The fact that they had Sundin was good but the fact that they didn't continue drafting well and building around him from the start is bad. If the Leafs were wise, they would seek to avoid making that mistake again. But first, they need to lay some ground work and find at least one guy worth building around.
- Two_For_Truth

The situation was mismanaged, not necessarily through the draft either.

They had a lot of valuable players that could've been traded for high end prospects.. But trying to ride the wave with an aging core, complimented with senseless moves in the other direction sealed that generations fate.

There's nothing to suggest sundin would have even been interested in sticking around threw a gut, and years at the bottom of the league.

And from the logic you blessed us with last night, having sundin would have made the team to good to finished dead last, and would have been cursed with years of mediocre 5th to 7th place finishes instead.. Right?

The build around one player argument is foolish.
- joel878

So foolish that it's been done to great success for decades. It's reality. Accept it.

Pittsburgh didn't even build around Crosby. They brought in fleury, Malkin.. And then lucked out on Crosby. Staal, orpik came after.. And the rest was done with free agent signings and trades.

Keep pissing on Pittsburgh and Chicago for assembling a Cup winning team. No way Toronto wants or needs something like that.

There is no set way, a blueprint, to building a championship team that only you are aware of. There's been many cup winners with many different formats.

Most Cup winners have many things in common. If you are too lazy to take a look to see what they are, that's your problem.

The tank and draft notion is among the very small percentile of those formats.

Actually, it isn't. Most teams, if not all of them, have drafted very high to acquire a franchise type player, if not more than one.

Also, try to keep in mind that the Leafs generally aren't very good at finding franchise players in nontraditional places so they need all the help they can get with the highest odds of finding a franchise player being a result of tanking and drafting 1st overall.

And from the logic you blessed us with last night, having sundin would have made the team to good to finished dead last, and would have been cursed with years of mediocre 5th to 7th place finishes instead.. Right?
- joel878

Except the fact that Kessel is nowhere near as good as Sundin and thus not worth building around. And that was the point of bringing up Sundin. He's an example of a player to build around over 10+ years. The Leafs acquired Sundin with zero groundwork to go with him and for a few years, they were indeed mediocre. They were drafting 15th or 16th overall and it didn't help their cause. They tried to expedite the process and it got worse.

Now, if they learn from their mistakes and they draft a Sundin type player at age 18, instead of acquiring him at 24 in a trade, the Leafs not only give themselves more time to find complimentary players but they also give themselves another year or two of drafting high.

Starting to see how the puzzle pieces fit? It's all about the timing.

So foolish that it's been done to great success for decades. It's reality. Accept it.



Keep pissing on Pittsburgh and Chicago for assembling a Cup winning team. No way Toronto wants or needs something like that.



Most Cup winners have many things in common. If you are too lazy to take a look to see what they are, that's your

Actually, it isn't. Most teams, if not all of them, have drafted very high to acquire a franchise type player, if not more than one.

Also, try to keep in mind that the Leafs generally aren't very good at finding franchise players in nontraditional places so they need all the help they can get with the highest odds of finding a franchise player being a result of tanking and drafting 1st overall.
- Two_For_Truth

It hasn't been done for decades.. Twisting history to support your argument doesn't make it history.

Pittsburgh made it to the bottom of the league through near bankruptcy.

Chicago was garbage for years, and years. They didn't intentionally tank.

Either way, you're literally talking about two teams who maybe have successfully done it in 20 years. That's it.

You can be a baby, be childish.. Dance, dodge and avoid important points to try and prove yours.. But don't be a (frank)ing retard, because we all know you're not.

Two teams.. Might have possibly done it in a twisted argument over 20 years.. That's it.

The build around one player argument is foolish.
- joel878

So foolish that it's been done to great success for decades. It's reality. Accept it.

It hasn't been done for decades.. Twisting history to support your argument doesn't make it history.
- joel878

Building around a franchise player has been done for decades. Go back and read it again. How badly you misread things and miss the point is hilarious.

Pittsburgh made it to the bottom of the league through near bankruptcy.

Chicago was garbage for years, and years. They didn't intentionally tank.

Pittsburgh being near bankrupt is irrelevant. The Leafs will never go bankrupt. Chicago being garbage on purpose or not is also irrelevant. The point is, they drafted high and got the right guys to build a Cup team around.

Now, the Leafs can either do it right or they can screw around like they did five years ago when they had this opportunity. But who needs true superstars like Stamkos or Doughty right? Just keep running with Kessel and praying for a miracle.

Building around a franchise player has been done for decades. Go back and read it again. How badly you misread things and miss the point is hilarious.



Pittsburgh being near bankrupt is irrelevant. The Leafs will never go bankrupt. Chicago being garbage on purpose or not is also irrelevant. The point is, they drafted high and got the right guys to build a Cup team around.

Now, the Leafs can either do it right or they can screw around like they did five years ago when they had this opportunity. But who needs true superstars like Stamkos or Doughty right? Just keep running with Kessel and praying for a miracle.
- Two_For_Truth

But making championship teams out of it hasn't. Isn't that your bottom line to all of this? That there's on way and one way only, and you're the only one alive who has unlocked that vault?

It's debateable at best. Very rarely had it been about one single hockey player. Every championship team had multiple stars, near dynasty's had multiple conn smythe winners. I would argue that it's never been entirely done with one player in mind, aside from the very rare instance.

Serious question, what is it about you that you feel the need to immediately turn into a (frank)ing wiener? The 'missing the point' 'hilarious how slow you are' type crap is so unnessecary in any structured adult conversation it's not even funny. We're you raised in a cave? This entire site has been putting up with your petty bullpoop for far to many years, and I really am curious what is lacking to make you feel like you immediately have to go for any posters throat in such a childish manner?

If this is how you engage mature conversation in the real world, id be embarrassed for you. That's probably the most honest 30 seconds I'll ever spend wasted on you.. For sure.

If I were a mod I'd just prema-ban him to prevent people from wasting their time trying to reason with him.

Can't believe no mod has done that yet in all honesty. I've seen bans for far less. The quality of discussion goes down significantly as soon as he logs in.

If I were a mod I'd just prema-ban him to prevent people from wasting their time trying to reason with him.

Can't believe no mod has done that yet in all honesty. I've seen bans for far less. The quality of discussion goes down significantly as soon as he logs in.
- daeth

Yes, and I take the bait every time.

Not only that, but they're letting him agitate the world under an alternate account to dodge a ban. Let him clearly break rules to put on this act every day.

I've been banned for openly questioning it.

I think there should be an 'ignore poster' function which blocks you from seeing any of his posts. That would clear up a lot of their headaches.

But making championship teams out of it hasn't. Isn't that your bottom line to all of this? That there's on way and one way only, and you're the only one alive who has unlocked that vault?
- joel878

Look at the long list of Cup champions and you'll see a lot of teams, most teams actually, that have a guy they built the team around. Gretzky with the Oilers, Orr with the Bruins, Lemieux with the Penguins are the easy and obvious ones but the list is long.

And nobody ever said there is only one way to build a team. That's your assumption. That's your failure. There is however an efficient way to gather the vital pieces to build a Cup winner. When you look at the Leafs as a franchise and the history of this franchise, they have sucked at building a Cup winner for the past 45 years. It's time for them to do what has the best odds of success and that means drafting high and drafting often to reduce the risk of making mistakes.

It's debateable at best. Very rarely had it been about one single hockey player. Every championship team had multiple stars, near dynasty's had multiple conn smythe winners. I would argue that it's never been entirely done with one player in mind, aside from the very rare instance.

Every Cup winner has an MVP. Or a captain. Or a guy the team is centered around. Deny history if you want. It only makes you look worse.

Serious question, what is it about you that you feel the need to immediately turn into a (frank)ing wiener? The 'missing the point' 'hilarious how slow you are' type crap is so unnessecary in any structured adult conversation it's not even funny. We're you raised in a cave? This entire site has been putting up with your petty bullpoop for far to many years, and I really am curious what is lacking to make you feel like you immediately have to go for any posters throat in such a childish manner?

If this is how you engage mature conversation in the real world, id be embarrassed for you. That's probably the most honest 30 seconds I'll ever spend wasted on you.. For sure.

This is hilarious. Go talk to Aetherial about engaging in a mature conversation. Maybe this rings a bell.

some people are just banana eaters by nature. almost born with those genetics. even those people seem to contribute more to the world than you and your little over done purse/lap dog schtick.. (which you're to (frank)ing sheltered to realize just lays stakes to the idea that you enjoy men on your lap, and have a purse)

seriously, do you even work? or is the full time job sitting on hockeybuzz trying to pump yourself up at the expense of random posters who couldn't hand you an ounce of validation in the real world if you blew em for it?

you're a d-bag, and my biggest fan. you carry a sharpie in that purse so i can hand you an autograph? from what i've seen of you.. i'm thinking you'd rather hand me your lipstick so i can sign your tits.

eat poop and die.
- joel878

What an amazing, structured, adult conversation that was. Very mature of you.

Look at the long list of Cup champions and you'll see a lot of teams, most teams actually, that have a guy they built the team around. Gretzky with the Oilers, Orr with the Bruins, Lemieux with the Penguins are the easy and obvious ones but the list is long.

And nobody ever said there is only one way to build a team. That's your assumption. That's your failure. There is however an efficient way to gather the vital pieces to build a Cup winner. When you look at the Leafs as a franchise and the history of this franchise, they have sucked at building a Cup winner for the past 45 years. It's time for them to do what has the best odds of success and that means drafting high and drafting often to reduce the risk of making mistakes.



Every Cup winner has an MVP. Or a captain. Or a guy the team is centered around. Deny history if you want. It only makes you look worse.



This is hilarious. Go talk to Aetherial about engaging in a mature conversation. Maybe this rings a bell.



What an amazing, structured, adult conversation that was. Very mature of you.
- Two_For_Truth

You took the time to look up one of my posts?!? All in the interest of dodging the point? Seriously, this is how you handle everything. You look up something to deflect the heat on you, and immediately make it about something else.

Whatever man, I've had explosions with the best of em. There's not to much I don't do, or am wrong about.. That I don't take ownership of.

At least aetherial has objectivity. You're by far the worst poster on this site. You throw tantrums, attack anyone who has a differing opinion.. You immediately start with the same childish antics every go around. Keep failing, it's miserable how slow you are.. All the same BS anytime someone even slightly disagrees with you.

At the best of times, you're a virus on this site. Hopefully one day you grow up.

Anyways, I'll take the path of everyone else and be done talking hockey with you. If one is not engaging you to go 'you're right UG, you and your never ending arrogance are spot on, and I just wanted to tell you how right you are, and how stupid and unimportant everyone that disagrees with you is'... Then there's really not a (frank)ing point.

I'm enjoying this little stretch with no bans. Good luck with the whole trying to be god of hockeybuzz thing.

You throw tantrums, attack anyone who has a differing opinion.. You immediately start with the same childish antics every go around. Keep failing, it's miserable how slow you are.. All the same BS anytime someone even slightly disagrees with you.
- joel878

Funny because you just described yourself perfectly.

Come back when you feel like talking about hockey.

Funny because you just described yourself perfectly.

Come back when you feel like talking about hockey.
- Two_For_Truth

Ahhh yes, the I'm rubber your glue clause, great to see it exercised post grade school.

Talk hockey with you? You mean it's everyone pull up a chair and listen to UG explain all the reasons he's god and you're stupid as (frank) time?

Thanks, I'll pass.

Good luck with everyone else though.

You guys need to trade Damien Cox.