No but they drafted Yzerman 4th overall and locked him up for his entire career. Subsequent frachise players like Federov and Lidstrom they were more lucky in obtaining.

How good were they before they drafted Yzerman and kept him as that centrepiece? How did that strategy work out?
- 1979AD

This truthful post will be ignored.

I never said buying a car wasn't an investment. I said its a horrible investment, as far as investments go. Buying a home would have made more sense, but maybe you're 18 and never thought of or know anything about buying homes?
See how this works?
- systemtool

It's a bad investment money-wise, it's a good investment to get you where you need to go, which is why you buy cars. (man, shouldn't you have common sense enough to know that?). I could've used buying a home, but that's not infallible either. It amounts to the same thing, now you're just being picky. Really, if you're just going to spin this argument in a circle, maybe you really need a nap.

So a guy who is capable of scoring more than 30 goals regularly, and is improving from one year to the next, is easy to acquire?
- A_Tree

Yes, it actually is. The Leafs got Kessel didn't they? All they had to do was give up two 1st round picks.

So, once the Leafs draft their true cornerstones, you can afford to give up 1st round picks.

It's all about the timing of when you do it. The Leafs picked the worst possible time to make that deal. But if they already had two or three cornerstone players, it would have made sense.

Yzerman was there from day one of the process of turning a horrid franchise into a dynasty. So yes, the team was built around him. He was the constant that the team always revolved around. When they found problems in his game, they got Scotty Bowman to help him fix it. He was the captain. He was the leader. He was the point producer. He was the focal point of the franchise. I don't know how much simpler it can get than that.

Look at the Leafs with Sundin. Everything they did revolved around him. He was the captain. He was the leader. He was what they team always had to depend on. Did they win? No. But that's because they didn't pay enough attention to rebuilding and setting up the right pieces prior to making playoff runs.
- Two_For_Truth

the wings were the worst NHL team for like 20 years straight, they were due, and yzerman was cut right away, but showed heart and made it on the club. federov didnt hurt, nor did the grit and depth of the wings for the last 20 years...

ug ug ug, what will we do with you!

We're talking about what to do now. Not what to do with this flux capacitor and de lorean we have at our disposal.
- systemtool

Yes, you are talking about what to do now. Doesn't mean I can't bring up that point; we learn from the past, well except for the Leafs who acquire "superstars" who possess one good trait in exchange for their future.

Nice setup, ever been to Metalworks studios? The one that the guys from Triumph built specifically to record their own albums, now it is one of the most used in Canada, took a tour of it once, incredible.
- LeafMan

the one in mississauga? i havent had the pleasure.. wonder what their rates are?

emac is 85$ an hour before taxes

Rick Nash is the highest paid player on the Rangers. He is not the player they built around now is he??

Gaborik is the 2nd highest paid player on the team. Is he the player the team is built around. Nope.


Nice try sport
- faceto27

I would say the Goalie they have is the most important player...and started adding the pieces once they had him... I may be way off base

How is acquiring Kessel a step forward? You know what's two steps forward? Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton. Please, keep telling me about moving forward.
- Conquest

It's a turn of phrase referring to having something of perceived value giving it up for something lesser, and opening up another hole in the process. All in the name of progress.

The same place they are going to get "the guy" after they trade Kessel.

The draft, development, trades, free agency.

Trading Kadri also helps this team bottom feed and get assets back. Do we do that to now since hes not "the guy"?
- systemtool

And that's where you go wrong. The place where they get "the guy" after they trade Kessel is 1st overall at the draft. With Kessel, the Leafs don't get that opportunity.

Trades? Free agency? So, they're going to have to grossly overpay to get players and either destroy their depth in a trade or they're going to sign a 30 year old to a contract he doesn't deserve. All that gives you a player and smaller window of opportunity. Instead of having 7 to 10 years to get the job done, they give themselves 3 to 5 years. They've tried that before. It didn't work.

I don't know you're situation, but I wouldn't be posting here every day getting my heart rate up over comments made by some internet tough guys. I'd be doing anything I could to be productive.
- Conquest

Is this a joke? You're telling me im not productive, because im on here, yet you dont see the irony that you're on the same forum for which your discussing my lack of productivity? How do you know who is here every day if you're not coming here every day yourself. Come on man, calm down. Way to make it personal, and you're telling me about heart rates and internet tough guys. Have a good day.

So you get as much talent as you can, and then you hang on to it.

And Yzerman is a pretty good example, because for years, Red Wings fans wanted to trade the guy and start over.
- Atomic Wedgie

Yes, there are other approaches that work. What UG is advocating is one approach that has consistently proven to work. What you're advocating works too, I'd suggest both Boston and LA won Cups with the 'get as much talent as you can and then you hang on to it' strategy.

It's a turn of phrase referring to having something of perceived value giving it up for something lesser, and opening up another hole in the process. All in the name of progress.

- A_Tree

I never said trading Kessel now would solve our problems to send us into the playoffs next year; doing it now while we can allows us to start building a core for the future. It looks real nice for the oilers right now

Yes, you are talking about what to do now. Doesn't mean I can't bring up that point; we learn from the past, well except for the Leafs who acquire "superstars" who possess one good trait in exchange for their future.
- Conquest

If we learned anything from the past its that we havent had a 25 year old consistent 30 goal scorer in years.

Yes, there are other approaches that work. What UG is advocating is one approach that has consistently proven to work. What you're advocating works too, I'd suggest both Boston and LA won Cups with the 'get as much talent as you can and then you hang on to it' strategy.
- 1979AD

I'm not arguing against the tank and draft strategy.

I'm just irked by the whole "build around" notion - which so far nobody has been able to define for me.

You get as many good players as you can. If you choose to do that by tanking and drafting high, go for it.

But I reject the idea that you "build a team" around a guy. Whether you have Player A or Player B, you still try to get the next best player you can.

So you get as much talent as you can, and then you hang on to it.
- Atomic Wedgie

That's wrong. What's the point of treading water and hanging on to talent that costs you more than it's worth?

If you want to get as much talent as you can, you bomb a few seasons and hit the draft table really hard. That gives you elite level talent, 18 to 20 year old players, on ELC and gives you a lot more time and flexibility.

And Yzerman is a pretty good example, because for years, Red Wings fans wanted to trade the guy and start over.

That was before they knew who or what Scotty Bowman was capable of. Unless you can find somebody to do that with Kessel, the point still stands; the Leafs need to find the right guy to build around.

I never said trading Kessel now would solve our problems to send us into the playoffs next year; doing it now while we can allows us to start building a core for the future. It looks real nice for the oilers right now
- Conquest

How is keeping a 25 year old consistent 30 goal scorer not building a core for the future?

the one in mississauga? i havent had the pleasure.. wonder what their rates are?

emac is 85$ an hour before taxes
- Dozzer

Yes on Mavis rd, http://metalworksstudios.com/

Voted Canada's Studio of the Year 14 times, it is huge with multiple studios. Take a look at the site.

That's the problem, right now... how/where to get that franchise player.
- 1979AD

draft Sean Monahan

I'm not arguing against the tank and draft strategy.

I'm just irked by the whole "build around" notion - which so far nobody has been able to define for me.

You get as many good players as you can. If you choose to do that by tanking and drafting high, go for it.

But I reject the idea that you "build a team" around a guy. Whether you have Player A or Player B, you still try to get the next best player you can.
- Atomic Wedgie

Put another way, I'm just making a pissy linguistic argument.

Is this a joke? You're telling me im not productive, because im on here, yet you dont see the irony that you're on the same forum for which your discussing my lack of productivity? How do you know who is here every day if you're not coming here every day yourself. Come on man, calm down. Way to make it personal, and you're telling me about heart rates and internet tough guys. Have a good day.
- systemtool

Yes, because you post here every day, hourly. I'm betting you've never seen me around since before a few days ago because I come on here every so often, I don't spend hours a week on here like you seem to be doing. I check the threads when I can and constantly see your name in these threads; hell, I could skip weeks and see you in here when I log on. It would be a joke to say you don't "live" on here. I'll never understand why people say calm down like they know how I'm feeling right now, it's laughable If you're taking it personally, it's through no fault of my own.

I would say the Goalie they have is the most important player...and started adding the pieces once they had him... I may be way off base
- senstroll

I would say you are right in saying Lundquist is the their main building block. The point is, that he is not their highest paid player. Which is what I was eluding to.

Right?

thats true, but if you cant get that franchise player, what do you do? you get the next best thing so that perhaps down the road someone will offer you a great package or number of picks for that player...kessel is super young, and hes also super talented.
- big_dion

If you can't get that franchise player, you keep drafting until you do. Simple.

What you don't do is keep Kessel on a huge contract screwing around chasing 8th place every year. That just delays the inevitable.

what we gave up for kessel means jack poop at this point. what we do with him from here means everything. keeping him isnt the worst thing...push comes to shove, if we can land that #1 C or if Kadri keeps getting better and better, who knows, maybe the leafs already have that player in the system...

Who said anything about what the Leafs gave up to get Kessel? Absolutely nobody said that what they gave up for Kessel needs to be exactly what they get in return for him. The point of trading Kessel is to get as many top prospects and picks in return for him and allowing the team to draft as high as possible instead of watching him walk for nothing or get overpaid to stay and keep this team mediocre.

How is keeping a 25 year old consistent 30 goal scorer not building a core for the future?
- systemtool

Because that's all he does... he doesn't do anything else. He doesn't lead, he doesn't help defensively, he doesn't check, he doesn't play physically, the list goes on. You don't build a team around someone like that, you just don't; if you can't get that, then there's no need for us to continue this conversation which you've tried to end a few times now.

Yes, because you post here every day, hourly. I'm betting you've never seen me around since before a few days ago because I come on here every so often, I don't spend hours a week on here like you seem to be doing. I check the threads when I can and constantly see your name in these threads; hell, I could skip weeks and see you in here when I log on. It would be a joke to say you don't "live" on here. I'll never understand why people say calm down like they know how I'm feeling right now, it's laughable If you're taking it personally, it's through no fault of my own.
- Conquest

A whole post of personal jabs.

So you're not here as much as I am, but know exactly now often im on by not being here. Convincing. See as how you resorted to this tirade, I can see why heart rates and internet tough guys was something you would bring up.Until a recent surgery I wasnt on here as often either, but you feel better now about yourself, dont you?

PITTSBURGH MODEL MY ASS!