Lets make it a threesome! I agree as well.
- LEAFSfan28191

(frank), we need a Toews-like player/leader.

This is what drives me crazy about Leafs fans. Why can't they have both? Do you think that you're going to trade Kessel for this mythical guy that they're going to build the team around? Not going to happen. And don't talk to me about getting picks for him. No one is going to give up a lottery pick and that's the only way you're going to get this supposed cornerstone. Everyone says Kessel needs to go because he's not "the guy". Guess what, that describes every player on the roster! Why can't we be happy with a pure sniper? Why does ever first line player have to be an elite power forward? There's only a handful of those guys in the league.
- Jeffmt

Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

(frank), we need a Toews-like player/leader.
- As_I_See_It

poop yes, we do.

But lets not forget the Hawks didnt win just because they had Toews. They are successful because they built around him. You know, like Kane, Sharp, Hossa.

(frank), we need a Toews-like player/leader.
- As_I_See_It

Ya Buddy! I was thinking a giroux like player but yup!

Ya Buddy! I was thinking a giroux like player but yup!
- LEAFSfan28191

Again, same thing. Were is Giroux leading that team to now? The Flyers were at their best when they had Giroux, Richards, Carter, Briere, Jagr etc.

No team wins because of one player, and if they do, its a major exception and not the rule. Its a team game. You need a lot of pieces in place to truly contend.

Again, same thing. Were is Giroux leading that team to now? The Flyers were at their best when they had Giroux, Richards, Carter, Briere, Jagr etc.

No team wins because of one player, and if they do, its a major exception and not the rule. Its a team game. You need a lot of pieces in place to truly contend.
- systemtool

Look im not hating on phil i like him im just saying. Personally i would like to trade him for younger assets, and build the draft way which in my opinion is the best way. We have a good young core and maybe trading phil is a dumb thing it's just what i think.

This is what drives me crazy about Leafs fans. Why can't they have both? Do you think that you're going to trade Kessel for this mythical guy that they're going to build the team around? Not going to happen. And don't talk to me about getting picks for him. No one is going to give up a lottery pick and that's the only way you're going to get this supposed cornerstone. Everyone says Kessel needs to go because he's not "the guy". Guess what, that describes every player on the roster! Why can't we be happy with a pure sniper? Why does ever first line player have to be an elite power forward? There's only a handful of those guys in the league.
- Jeffmt

If you can't trade Kessel for the future guy to build the team around, then you can certainly draft him once Kessel is gone and the team free falls to near dead last. Fact is, Kessel is going to be useful to a contender and certain contenders, like St. Louis, have got plenty of top prospects and picks to blow.

You want to be happy with Kessel being the guy the team is built around? Then enjoy mediocrity because that's all this team will ever be with him as the center piece.

What he can be used for however is a catalyst to acquire the pieces we really need to build a team both in what we get in return and where we are able to draft after he's gone.
- Two_For_Truth

Its a gamble. You might get that player, you might not. Im not ready to take that gamble with trading Kessel unless its a sure thing move, or we know he has no interest in returning.

Its a gamble. You might get that player, you might not. Im not ready to take that gamble with trading Kessel unless its a sure thing move, or we know he has no interest in returning.
- systemtool

With the draft pick the Leafs would have in the next year or two without him, it's not much of a gamble. You get high quality prospects in return as well as at the draft by drafting as high as possible.

By keeping Kessel, all they are doing is hovering in the middle of the pack. He's not good enough to bring you to the top of the league while keeping the Leafs out of a high drafting position.

If you can't trade Kessel for the future guy to build the team around, then you can certainly draft him once Kessel is gone and the team free falls to near dead last. Fact is, Kessel is going to be useful to a contender and certain contenders, like St. Louis, have got plenty of top prospects and picks to blow.

You want to be happy with Kessel being the guy the team is built around? Then enjoy mediocrity because that's all this team will ever be with him as the center piece.
- Two_For_Truth

Holy crap. Nobody is saying build around Kessel. Just that he is PART of building this team to where it eventually needs to be.

This team has never been mediocre with Kessel, please stop being childish. 5th and 7th last is not mediocre.

Again, same thing. Were is Giroux leading that team to now? The Flyers were at their best when they had Giroux, Richards, Carter, Briere, Jagr etc.

No team wins because of one player, and if they do, its a major exception and not the rule. Its a team game. You need a lot of pieces in place to truly contend.
- systemtool

Also, lets not lose sight of the fact that people are throwing around some pretty ridiculous names here. You don't just go out and get a Teows-like player or a Giroux-like player. Teams don't give guys like that up and they certainly wouldn't do it to get Kessel. Lets pretend for a second that Nonis could get a guy like Getzlaf for Kessel. Now we've got that big power forward center that everyone is begging for but he's got no one to play with. We did that with Sundin, it was ugly.

With the draft pick the Leafs would have in the next year or two without him, it's not much of a gamble. You get high quality prospects in return as well as at the draft by drafting as high as possible.
- Two_For_Truth

Assumption. This team is not bottom feeding despite him not scoring any goals. Might as well trade Kadri if you dont want players who play well (frank)ing things up, because right now hes doing more to keep this team from the basement than Kessel.

With the draft pick the Leafs would have in the next year or two without him, it's not much of a gamble. You get high quality prospects in return as well as at the draft by drafting as high as possible.
- Two_For_Truth

Agreed id rather have a Mackinnon/Drouin player than Kessel...... That's just me.

Holy crap. Nobody is saying build around Kessel. Just that he is PART of building this team to where it eventually needs to be.

This team has never been mediocre with Kessel, please stop being childish. 5th and 7th last is not mediocre.
- systemtool

When you sign a high talent player to a huge contract, he becomes the center piece you build around whether you like it or not. That's the guy they're going to have to accommodate if they keep him.

The Leafs aren't as bad as they should be without him and they aren't drafting as high either. Once they start adding more players, they will rise to mediocre but that's as high as they will go.

Agreed id rather have a Mackinnon/Drouin player than Kessel...... That's just me.
- LEAFSfan28191

If that was a one for one trade, sure. But losing Kessel doesnt guarantee you those things.

Here we go again. Mystery box vs boat deja vu.

Assumption. This team is not bottom feeding despite him not scoring any goals. Might as well trade Kadri if you dont want players who play well (frank)ing things up, because right now hes doing more to keep this team from the basement than Kessel.
- systemtool

But Kadri has the nifty mittens And he's been my fav leaf since 09 even though he's just really became a leaf.

When you sign a high talent player to a huge contract, he becomes the center piece you build around whether you like it or not. That's the guy they're going to have to accommodate if they keep him.

The Leafs aren't as bad as they should be without him and they aren't drafting as high either. Once they start adding more players, they will rise to mediocre but that's as high as they will go.
- Two_For_Truth

No, that is not true. Its just signing a good player to be part of the core, not the main piece. This team still has a lot of work to do and they know it as much as we do.

Assumption. This team is not bottom feeding despite him not scoring any goals. Might as well trade Kadri if you dont want players who play well (frank)ing things up, because right now hes doing more to keep this team from the basement than Kessel.
- systemtool

Law of averages suggests he will pick it up eventually and do what he has done in his time in Toronto which is make the Leafs slightly less worse than they should be without him.

Agreed id rather have a Mackinnon/Drouin player than Kessel...... That's just me.
- LEAFSfan28191

Most logical people would, unfortunately, that's not a sacrifice they're willing to make yet. Hopefully that changes.

But Kadri has the nifty mittens And he's been my fav leaf since 09 even though he's just really became a leaf.
- LEAFSfan28191

Well, cant have him (frank)ing up our quest for last, now can we? Trade him.

Law of averages suggests he will pick it up eventually and do what he has done in his time in Toronto which is make the Leafs slightly less worse than they should be without him.
- Two_For_Truth

So we trade every player on the team that has the talent to play well?

If that was a one for one trade, sure. But losing Kessel doesnt guarantee you those things.

Here we go again. Mystery box vs boat deja vu.
- systemtool

Hahaha Sorry im not trying to say trade kessel for a pick like that hahaha. I just really want someone the Leafs drafted to be a superstar you know. Id love Mackinnon or Drouin on our team. And if they made the team out of camp i love watching rookie season's. Schenn's year was a fun year to watch IMO, bcuz we were legit rebuilding.

No, that is not true. Its just signing a good player to be part of the core, not the main piece. This team still has a lot of work to do and they know it as much as we do.
- systemtool

It's the main piece. Signing a high talent guy to a huge contract makes him the guy. That's usually the way it works. This team can't do the work it needs to do by keeping him. They will constantly be trying to push for 8th place and keeping themselves away from the bottom.

Agreed id rather have a Mackinnon/Drouin player than Kessel...... That's just me.
- LEAFSfan28191

I'm not so sure about that. People put a lot of stock these days into kids who have never played against anyone older than themselves. Two years ago lots of people would have said they'd rather have Braydon Schenn over Kessel. Right now, I'd take Kessel. A year ago Mackinnon was supposed to be the second coming and now he's not even the consensus #1 pick. A year ago Drouin was barely on the radar. Getting rid of a young 35 goal sniper for just a chance at these kids is an enormous risk.

So we trade every player on the team that has the talent to play well?
- systemtool

Kessel, Lupul and Phaneuf. Gives you younger, cheaper picks and prospects and also allows you to sink for a year or two and get those core pieces that they really need.