Yes 6-1
- Vukota

I hope so but i'm not feeling it. If the Pens team that has played the last 3 games shows up the Isles have a good chance to win.

i cant fault garth for taking the job, therefore i give him credit for doing the best he can with the limited resources available to him; AND the fact that its acknowledged that he was thrown into the deepend with a raft should buy him some more time and dare i say, sympathy? if i were to blame someone, it would be wang...i dont think anyone points to anyone but charles for that decision.
- LetsGoIsles

If for no other reason than NOT firing Milbury when he bought the team. He was far too patient with him.

Heh...I suppose. I guess the big question and most debateable point is, if another GM were in Snow's position, would we be a contender today? I suppose it's impossible to answer with any certainty but I'd be inclined to say 'no'. The stadium issues combined with things like the NY tax structure make it very tough to convince someone to make their millions here.
- keaner17

i think this is a great point....and i tend to agree

I hope so but i'm not feeling it. If the Pens team that has played the last 3 games shows up the Isles have a good chance to win.
- canadianpenfan

Wait til we send DP out there on the 4th line to take care of business

i cant fault garth for taking the job, therefore i give him credit for doing the best he can with the limited resources available to him; AND the fact that its acknowledged that he was thrown into the deepend with a raft should buy him some more time and dare i say, sympathy? if i were to blame someone, it would be wang...i dont think anyone points to anyone but charles for that decision.
- LetsGoIsles

Oh, heck no. Just like you can't fault DP for signing the contract.

Oh, heck no. Just like you can't fault DP for signing the contract.
- UIF

100% agree about dp

if i were to blame someone, its a no-brainer....wang

having said that, he bought some points with me by keeping the isles in town and setting them up for a GREAT situation in BK.

There are actually other examples of GM's who went directly from playing careers as well but I won't beat that horse. I agree that it's helpful to do 'sit-withs' for training though in a GM role I think the most important thing is who you surround yourself with. A GM is only as good as his scouts. When Snow took the job I nearly fell out of my seat but after thinking about it for a few minutes, I realized that it wasn't as bad as it seemed. Few positions in a sport lend themselves more to learning the complete aspects of a game and it's players more than a goaltender. That said, I agree that this was NOT a good situation for an owner to take a leap of faith.

As far as the blame game, we've all been over this ground over and over and I think the answer is 'all of the above'. There are some who probably deserve the blame more than others. The Isles have been in the 'perfect storm' for failure for years now. Still, the stadium issue is far and away the biggest issue for this teams inability to succeed over the last 20 years. Teams like Buffalo and Pittsburgh, who also suffered through SMG escaped due to miracle help from their state and ownership. The Isles haven't really had that luxury. Their own state left them for dead. The fact that they're still here can only be attributed to their cable contract.

Snow isn't without blame, I've mentioned plenty of mistakes I've felt he made. But he's also managed to find diamonds in the rough that now (IMO) have us 2-3 moves from becoming a dangerous competitor. Under the circumstances, that has to be appreciated.
- keaner17

Sure...we can speculate on where the blame lies. My point was there seems to be little accountability within the organization. Irrespective of our opinions of management, do you get the sense that winning is the mandate around here and jobs are on the line if it doesn't happen? I feel like if you have certain relationships within the organization...whether you're a player, coach, GM or whatever...you're safe. Don't know if that's really the case, just how it looks to me as a casual observer.

Personally, I don't have a problem giving Snow all the credit in the world where it's due...his drafting. Even if the first rounds are gimmes picking that high, I really like a lot of the later-round picks. I'm not crazy about how he builds his teams year in and year out...letting replaceable players walk without ever actually replacing them...so we always seem to be back where we started, dreaming about how the team might look three years down the road.

Wait til we send DP out there on the 4th line to take care of business
- keaner17

I don't know how well Vokoun can throw them, but i'm guessing better than Ricky.

100% agree about dp

if i were to blame someone, its a no-brainer....wang

having said that, he bought some points with me by keeping the isles in town and setting them up for a GREAT situation in BK.
- LetsGoIsles

Keep this in mind with DP's contract, while being a bad deal due to his injuries, it was a groundbreaking contract. For all of the crticism it received, plenty of other goalies have signed 9+ year deals since.

At the time DP signed this deal, it could be argued that he took a slight hometown discount. Lundqvist shortly signed a contract after on the order of $6.5 million per season. At that stage DP and Lundqvist were considered on the same level (Brodeur even thought DP was better). So DP took $2 million less per season than his peer. If DP had gone on as projected from that point, we'd all still be scratching our heads at how we ever got him that cheap. We'd also have to have been thankful that during a time when other players wouldn't even sniff at the Isles, he commited his entire, and very promising, career to us.

Unfortunately it wasn't to be and the kid ended up being...what's that Italian word...FRAGILE!
I still find it interesting, and actually believe him, when Milbury says he actually was against the contract. Charles was doing things from a businessman's perspective...THAT is where having an inexperienced owner hurt.

Lot's of great talent out there... sometimes it's just a #s game, timing, and getting a chance to play.

It is tough to be patient... the 5 year plan will end with lots of talent, lots of prospects, lots of cap space, and a new arena... maybe even a new owner...

It's all good!!!

PS... yes a new owner will probably mean a new GM...
- jimmc7722

I agree it is VERY tough to be patient. Frankly I am scared of a new owner b/c in the past that meant a GM being told to MAKE US relevant NOW.. and that is when all the stupid trades happened. If we start trading these prospects earned with shtty seasons for washed up bums I will be pretty angry.

Sure...we can speculate on where the blame lies. My point was there seems to be little accountability within the organization. Irrespective of our opinions of management, do you get the sense that winning is the mandate around here and jobs are on the line if it doesn't happen? I feel like if you have certain relationships within the organization...whether you're a player, coach, GM or whatever...you're safe. Don't know if that's really the case, just how it looks to me as a casual observer.

Personally, I don't have a problem giving Snow all the credit in the world where it's due...his drafting. Even if the first rounds are gimmes picking that high, I really like a lot of the later-round picks. I'm not crazy about how he builds his teams year in and year out...letting replaceable players walk without ever actually replacing them...so we always seem to be back where we started, dreaming about how the team might look three years down the road.
- UIF

No..I get the sense that 'patience' is the mandate. It may be the one lesson Charles actually learned from the Milbury era. I think the constant knee jerk trades and releases that happened wrecked this organizations foundation and forced us to commit to rebuilding that foundation. The only other thing that was left to do was remain patient until it was/is completed. Unfortunately that takes a long time to do and even longer to realize if it's succeeded or failed.

Sure...we can speculate on where the blame lies. My point was there seems to be little accountability within the organization. Irrespective of our opinions of management, do you get the sense that winning is the mandate around here and jobs are on the line if it doesn't happen? I feel like if you have certain relationships within the organization...whether you're a player, coach, GM or whatever...you're safe. Don't know if that's really the case, just how it looks to me as a casual observer.

Personally, I don't have a problem giving Snow all the credit in the world where it's due...his drafting. Even if the first rounds are gimmes picking that high, I really like a lot of the later-round picks. I'm not crazy about how he builds his teams year in and year out...letting replaceable players walk without ever actually replacing them...so we always seem to be back where we started, dreaming about how the team might look three years down the road.
- UIF

i hear that logic from an Islanders stand point...IE the NHL team.

from a organizational depth and player development point of view i compare it to an army getting beaten down and realizing their strategy isnt working. so they retreat, gather additional troops, load up on guns and ammo and then when they are fully stocked they go balls to wall, guns blazin.

right now the isles are past the retreating point, they are loading up on guns and ammo, once they are ready to fight theyll come on quick.

I completely understand your enthusiasm but we really dont know if any of those guys (highlited) are going to develop into the players we expect them to be! It's all (educated) Speculation.

There are 16 prospects. 16 ????? marks. If 1/4 turn into good players. (Thats a pretty liberal %) That still leave a lot of holes.

Thats why some prospects need to be traded before they turn out to be BUSTS!

Stock piling Prospects is great. You keep some and you use some to bring in established talent.

The key is to know your prospects better then the competition. And trade the ones that will not develop to expectations before anyone else finds out.

One more thing. 13 of those prospects (highlited above) have never seen an NHL Game. It's naive to believe that these players will be able to turn the Islander around with in 3 or 4 yrs!

Some are still 2-3 yrs away from the NHL. Then it will likely take 2-3 seasons to become accustomed to the NHL Game.

Best case is another 4 - 6 yrs waiting for them to become "productive" NHL players. By that time some of our Vets may have left or headed down hill.

Its impossible to build a team solely with this method.

That could but our 5 yr rebuild some where around 9-11 yrs! Thats realistic IMO.

- SCLI

The reason I listed ALL those prospects is b/c it is unrealistic to expect all/most to be relevant. Some of them will Pan out... some will not. The reason for my optimism is a few reasons. One is the prospects we have are highly regarded throughout hockey not just in my mind. Second is the amount of cap room we have when this number goes down for teams next year.. and third and this is very big.. for the first time in 20 years we have a Future intact with a new building. This is a very big reason no High quality UFA's would play for this team. As they look at the team now with guys like JT, Strome, Hamonic, etc...and a new building... not going anywhere..etc. That is a different story.

Here you go:

Arthur Staple ‏@StapeNewsday
If Hamonic can't go, Martinek in. Hickey stays in on D. #Isles

Arthur Staple ‏@StapeNewsday
Nabokov in goal, Cizikas back in for Boulton, Hamonic game-time decision for #Isles tonight vs. Pitt.
- kear20

I like both moves... 5-4 Pens in OT.

What do the Rangers have to do with anything, nite? Sad to say, the Rangers aren't even worth thinking about for us. We should be more concerned with teams closer to our universe that we'll actually be fighting with, if we're lucky. At the end of the day, the Rangers will be up near the top of the standings again and their fans will without doubt be watching hockey deep into the Spring. Who cares if it's because of Lundqvist, Sather, Nash, Callahan or Gaborik? It's the truth of the matter regardless. Until the Islanders can hang with them and the other top teams in the division with some regularity, any comparison is laughable. And in general people only praise Sather here when you come out of left field and criticize the Rangers while the Islanders are stuck in the quicksand again for the sixth or whatever year in a row. Let's just worry about our own house.
- UIF

I only brought them up b/c I always find them being referred to on hear as the premier example of how to run a Team. I strongly disagree with that opinion.

i hear that logic from an Islanders stand point...IE the NHL team.

from a organizational depth and player development point of view i compare it to an army getting beaten down and realizing their strategy isnt working. so they retreat, gather additional troops, load up on guns and ammo and then when they are fully stocked they go balls to wall, guns blazin.

right now the isles are past the retreating point, they are loading up on guns and ammo, once they are ready to fight theyll come on quick.
- LetsGoIsles

This can happen so fast from a team perspective too. During this rebuild, very little has been done for the sake of immediate gratification to the big club. It's all been about the farm system/foundation. However we now have a few of those pieces playing substantial roles on the Isles. If you can imagine how much better our top six becomes if we actually add a top line forward, then figure one of our present top six players moving to the third line (Frans) and the team instantly takes on a far more dangerous look. Sprinkle in kids like Strome and Nino arriving in the next year, and we've got something major brewing. It's just so tough without UFA consideration.

Simmer down cool aide man. The potential is there and this rebuild should have shown results by now. None of these kids minus stroke is a true blue chip. We constantly fill the roster with has beens and maybe so I'm not as enthusiastic as you.
- Cptmjl

It has shown results... but.. and this is a huge BUT.. you can not win hockey games without a top goalie. Nabby is the best we have had in 15 years. Our draft picks have started to make the team and are playing well. If we ever have a real goalie we might make an even bigger jump.

Doobie, Montoya, Macdonald, Danis, etc. etc. etc....

Teams do not rebuild COMPLETELY through the draft these days. I would suggest that no team in the NHL has had more difficulty attracting free agents over the last decade than the Isles. I'd also say that a large majority of that reason is and has been the stadium issues.

I'm definitely not scoring Garth an A, hell I'd probably give him a C at best, but I have to recognize the fact that he's facing a curve that no other GM in the NHL has had to deal with. He's made some very good moves (Moulson, Grabner, Aucoin, Nabby, Rolo etc) and some very bad one's. I'm not suggesting that folks should be more patient, your tolerance or intolerance is your own right, but I do think you have to respect the fact that not many GM's could have flourished in this situation. Our farm system was bare, the big club sucked and the stadium is an albatross. In 2015, this team will go from a disadvantage to a major advantage. If Snow's still here, he'll have NO excuses to hide behind at that point.
- keaner17

It has shown results... but.. and this is a huge BUT.. you can not win hockey games without a top goalie. Nabby is the best we have had in 15 years. Our draft picks have started to make the team and are playing well. If we ever have a real goalie we might make an even bigger jump.

Doobie, Montoya, Macdonald, Danis, etc. etc. etc....
- niteislander

Not to be a douche but how so?

Excatly! When he doesn't lure any big time free agents what will be the excuse then? That will be a fun time around these parts. I can't wait to see how the sheep are going to spin that
- Vukota

They'll figure something out.

no, people have (clearly) been impatient for years, having said that, if a new ownership is brought in, for argument sake tomorrow, and are given a few years to develop and get the system they want in place than HONESTLY id rather have wang because i think the isles are 1-2 years away from becoming legit contenders.
- LetsGoIsles

I'm guessing you mean for the Stanley Cup?

I can't disagree with that at all!
He wasn't a hockey fan prior and he bought a team in desperate need of hockey management. He's big on 'business culture' which doesn't really go with the hockey climate. Unfortunately his oddities or shortcomings are magnified by a rotten situation.
- keaner17

he then kept Milbury on ten years too long hired then fired a legit Stanley Cup winning GM and hired his back up goaltender?

Don't you know that's the building's fault I can't wait until the move to Brooklyn and all the new excuses that will be made when Crazy Charlie does something... I don't know crazy!!
- Vukota

I'm actually looking foward to them, I find them amusing. I really do

This can happen so fast from a team perspective too. During this rebuild, very little has been done for the sake of immediate gratification to the big club. It's all been about the farm system/foundation. However we now have a few of those pieces playing substantial roles on the Isles. If you can imagine how much better our top six becomes if we actually add a top line forward, then figure one of our present top six players moving to the third line (Frans) and the team instantly takes on a far more dangerous look. Sprinkle in kids like Strome and Nino arriving in the next year, and we've got something major brewing. It's just so tough without UFA consideration.
- keaner17

Dead on. Like I've been saying for a while now, Islander fans have lowered their expectations so far down that its comical.
- Vukota

It's a joke. Watch another team play pretty much pick ONE out of 25 maybe and you realize just how far we are from being contenders. It's like comparing juniors to the NHL.