Lot's of great talent out there... sometimes it's just a #s game, timing, and getting a chance to play.

It is tough to be patient... the 5 year plan will end with lots of talent, lots of prospects, lots of cap space, and a new arena... maybe even a new owner...

It's all good!!!

PS... yes a new owner will probably mean a new GM...
- jimmc7722

You guys are avoiding the fact that we were supposed to be competing for the Stanley cup in five years. We haven't even made the playoffs. A chimpanzee could have built a team by now where we were picking and the results are not over the top great by any means. You want someone to show snow respect? For what exactly? Are you guys really that easily amused?

It's awfully hard to dismiss the comments of people around Charles who say he's gone head over heels for the game. While I don't doubt he had a heavy eye on the development of Nassau, he also bought the team as a toy. It grew into something he became rather passionate about. I don't see him walking away prior to the moment the team reaches it's height in value and with an incredibly lucrative cable deal that grows as the years pass. I don't think Charles will ever go completely away.
- keaner17

He has an extremely unusual way of showing his passion for the game and this team.

"Expected to win yesterday" implies people are suddenly becoming impatient and haven't given the man a fair chance. Twenty years and only a Shawn Bates penalty shot to show for it so far...

Edit -- Heck, even Garth Snow has had, what, six or seven years at the helm? Folks here were bashing Burke a couple of weeks ago as a failure and he had a couple of years less than that.
- UIF

no, people have (clearly) been impatient for years, having said that, if a new ownership is brought in, for argument sake tomorrow, and are given a few years to develop and get the system they want in place than HONESTLY id rather have wang because i think the isles are 1-2 years away from becoming legit contenders.

Exactly....the only time you sell when the value is sh*t is when you have NO CHOICE......unless you're an idiot......he may be a lot of things, but one of them is a billionaire......who started with nothing. He might be a hockey fool, but he's not a business fool...

Again, folks- this team desperately needed a building. That has been the problem since Pickett owned the team. That is why it is always bargain basement. Every owner comes in and spends a few bucks, thinking that's the problem....then learns that there's a reason why the payroll was low when he starts bleeding cash, because of the embarrassment his team plays in that no one in New York State seems to want to do anything about, even if said owner proffers several scenarios in which he might pay for it himself.

He finally did the right thing for the franchise- the thing that will make the franchise attractive to free agents, and that will eventually cause it be profitable (or at least far less unprofitable), and have success on the ice. I'll say it again- anyone who wants to complain about Brooklyn and blame that on Wang needs to pop the head out of the rectum. Nassau had 20 years and four owners to come up with a building, and it came up short- I'm not blaming that on the owner, and you can't convince me otherwise, no matter what any of you say.

He did what he always said he would- he found a way to keep them here, where we CAN go see their home games, and I'll always be thankful to him for that, regardless of any other scenario for which I might think he's a dope. You want to complain that he's the reason I still have to watch Ricky Superstar play the net when he shouldn't, and I'm right with ya....but the building is not his fault, and he finally talked himself into doing the right thing, against his OWN wishes for his team. That is the bottom line, IMO.
- dcb1

totally agree...

im not a huge fan of his, BUT a) i understand why he doesnt spend right now b) i (we all) owe him BIG TIME for keeping the franchise in NY.

You guys are avoiding the fact that we were supposed to be competing for the Stanley cup in five years. We haven't even made the playoffs. A chimpanzee could have built a team by now where we were picking and the results are not over the top great by any means. You want someone to show snow respect? For what exactly? Are you guys really that easily amused?
- Cptmjl

Teams do not rebuild COMPLETELY through the draft these days. I would suggest that no team in the NHL has had more difficulty attracting free agents over the last decade than the Isles. I'd also say that a large majority of that reason is and has been the stadium issues.

I'm definitely not scoring Garth an A, hell I'd probably give him a C at best, but I have to recognize the fact that he's facing a curve that no other GM in the NHL has had to deal with. He's made some very good moves (Moulson, Grabner, Aucoin, Nabby, Rolo etc) and some very bad one's. I'm not suggesting that folks should be more patient, your tolerance or intolerance is your own right, but I do think you have to respect the fact that not many GM's could have flourished in this situation. Our farm system was bare, the big club sucked and the stadium is an albatross. In 2015, this team will go from a disadvantage to a major advantage. If Snow's still here, he'll have NO excuses to hide behind at that point.

He has an extremely unusual way of showing his passion for the game and this team.
- Cptmjl

I can't disagree with that at all!
He wasn't a hockey fan prior and he bought a team in desperate need of hockey management. He's big on 'business culture' which doesn't really go with the hockey climate. Unfortunately his oddities or shortcomings are magnified by a rotten situation.

And shifting gears......

No Hamonic tonight against the Pens.....anyone else feel like our first blowout of the year is on it's way?

Teams do not rebuild COMPLETELY through the draft these days. I would suggest that no team in the NHL has had more difficulty attracting free agents over the last decade than the Isles. I'd also say that a large majority of that reason is and has been the stadium issues.

I'm definitely not scoring Garth an A, hell I'd probably give him a C at best, but I have to recognize the fact that he's facing a curve that no other GM in the NHL has had to deal with. He's made some very good moves (Moulson, Grabner, Aucoin, Nabby, Rolo etc) and some very bad one's. I'm not suggesting that folks should be more patient, your tolerance or intolerance is your own right, but I do think you have to respect the fact that not many GM's could have flourished in this situation. Our farm system was bare, the big club sucked and the stadium is an albatross. In 2015, this team will go from a disadvantage to a major advantage. If Snow's still here, he'll have NO excuses to hide behind at that point.
- keaner17

You've had a guy learning on the job with absolutely no front office experience at all. That's been the biggest hurdle for Snow, just in my opinion. No scouting job, no assistant GM position, not even a job fetching coffee for someone in a front office. From the ice to the GM seat of a major sports franchise. No matter how quickly he can grasp things, there's too much to learn and the team has paid for that. That summer he took over was a huge blow to the organization's league-wide reputation. There was the 60-day Smith nonsense, followed by hiring a current player as GM, followed immediately by the 15-year contract to DP. Doesn't matter where you stand on any one of those issues, but I don't think we can pretend that all had absolutely no bearing on how the team was viewed by players and other managers. For as brilliant of a businessman as Wang supposedly is, he is clueless when it comes to optics. Would you have gone to the Islanders if they were one of three teams offering you similar contracts? Would it have had anything to do with the building?

I asked Gallof regarding the Islanders being sold rumor...he sent me back a few tweets:

B.D. Gallof ‏@BDGallof
@kear20 i was told that person tweeting it was an idiot. so... take a guess.

.D. Gallof ‏@BDGallof
@kear20 i am told no. isles are always full of surprises but i have heard from sources NO truth to it.

B.D. Gallof ‏@BDGallof
@kear20 Wang won't sell... not for a while. wants rebuild to take shape. invested into that process, partners with Garth in that vision

B.D. Gallof ‏@BDGallof
@kear20 might that happen in several years with rebuild set/path clear/wang older/value higher... certainly
- kear20

Not for nothing but I also remember BD saying they weren't moving to Brooklyn either
Bottom line is nobody really knows except wang. Only thing we can do is pray that's its true.

You've had a guy learning on the job with absolutely no front office experience at all. That's been the biggest hurdle for Snow, just in my opinion. No scouting job, no assistant GM position, not even a job fetching coffee for someone in a front office. From the ice to the GM seat of a major sports franchise. No matter how quickly he can grasp things, there's too much to learn and the team has paid for that. That summer he took over was a huge blow to the organization's league-wide reputation. There was the 60-day Smith nonsense, followed by hiring a current player as GM, followed immediately by the 15-year contract to DP. Doesn't matter where you stand on any one of those issues, but I don't think we can pretend that all had absolutely no bearing on how the team was viewed by players and other managers. For as brilliant of a businessman as Wang supposedly is, he is clueless when it comes to optics. Would you have gone to the Islanders if they were one of three teams offering you similar contracts? Would it have had anything to do with the building?
- UIF

Don't you know that's the building's fault I can't wait until the move to Brooklyn and all the new excuses that will be made when Crazy Charlie does something... I don't know crazy!!

Not for nothing but I also remember BD saying they weren't moving to Brooklyn either
Bottom line is nobody really knows except wang. Only thing we can do is pray that's its true.
- Vukota

True, but he is right most of the time...I think Wang will eventually sell when teams moves to Brooklyn...

You guys are avoiding the fact that we were supposed to be competing for the Stanley cup in five years. We haven't even made the playoffs. A chimpanzee could have built a team by now where we were picking and the results are not over the top great by any means. You want someone to show snow respect? For what exactly? Are you guys really that easily amused?
- Cptmjl

Dead on. Like I've been saying for a while now, Islander fans have lowered their expectations so far down that its comical.

And shifting gears......

No Hamonic tonight against the Pens.....anyone else feel like our first blowout of the year is on it's way?
- keaner17

Yes 6-1

You've had a guy learning on the job with absolutely no front office experience at all. That's been the biggest hurdle for Snow, just in my opinion. No scouting job, no assistant GM position, not even a job fetching coffee for someone in a front office. From the ice to the GM seat of a major sports franchise. No matter how quickly he can grasp things, there's too much to learn and the team has paid for that. That summer he took over was a huge blow to the organization's league-wide reputation. There was the 60-day Smith nonsense, followed by hiring a current player as GM, followed immediately by the 15-year contract to DP. Doesn't matter where you stand on any one of those issues, but I don't think we can pretend that all had absolutely no bearing on how the team was viewed by players and other managers. For as brilliant of a businessman as Wang supposedly is, he is clueless when it comes to optics. Would you have gone to the Islanders if they were one of three teams offering you similar contracts? Would it have had anything to do with the building?
- UIF

No question the decision was a bad joke. That said, the team already was a league wide laughning stock and this was simply another staw to the bale. As for learning on the job, there are quite a few GM's over time who took over with little to no experience. Bobby Clarke took over as the Flyers GM promptly after retiring and led the Flyers to two Stanley Cup appearances. A fair amount of the GM's in the NHL have very little business experience at all, fortunately they hire bean counters to help.

The biggest problem for us as fans is it's difficulte to attribute just how much of the follies are the fault of Snow and how much are the fault of circumstance. From the individual transactions standpoint, I don't think we can say he's failed miserably and certainly he hasn't excelled. Soon we'll have a very level playing field that will allow us to really judge him.

No question the decision was a bad joke. That said, the team already was a league wide laughning stock and this was simply another staw to the bale. As for learning on the job, there are quite a few GM's over time who took over with little to know experience. Bobby Clarke took over as the Flyers GM promptly after retiring and led the Flyers to two Stanley Cup appearances. A fair amount of the GM's in the NHL have very little business experience at all, fortunately they hire bean counters to help.

The biggest problem for us as fans is it's difficulte to attribute just how much of the follies are the fault of Snow and how much are the fault of circumstance. From the individual transactions standpoint, I don't think we can say he's failed miserably and certainly he hasn't excelled. Soon we'll have a very level playing field that will allow us to really judge him.
- keaner17

Excatly! When he doesn't lure any big time free agents what will be the excuse then? That will be a fun time around these parts. I can't wait to see how the sheep are going to spin that

Excatly! When he doesn't lure any big time free agents what will be the excuse then? That will be a fun time around these parts. I can't wait to see how the sheep are going to spin that
- Vukota

There will be no excuses then. And I'll be one of the first to say, it's time to kick him to the curb. All though I wonder how those who fault him for the rain will react if the team does become successful.

I think most of us can agree that if this team has sound goaltending and adds a UFA forward and Dman of impact, the dynamic of this club changes dramatically. When present players who are asked to take impact roles suddenly become role players, this club quickly will be deeper and more dangerous.

But this whole assertion that a player can't become a GM with no experience is bullsheet. It's happened plenty of times.

Exactly....the only time you sell when the value is sh*t is when you have NO CHOICE......unless you're an idiot......he may be a lot of things, but one of them is a billionaire......who started with nothing. He might be a hockey fool, but he's not a business fool...

Again, folks- this team desperately needed a building. That has been the problem since Pickett owned the team. That is why it is always bargain basement. Every owner comes in and spends a few bucks, thinking that's the problem....then learns that there's a reason why the payroll was low when he starts bleeding cash, because of the embarrassment his team plays in that no one in New York State seems to want to do anything about, even if said owner proffers several scenarios in which he might pay for it himself.

He finally did the right thing for the franchise- the thing that will make the franchise attractive to free agents, and that will eventually cause it be profitable (or at least far less unprofitable), and have success on the ice. I'll say it again- anyone who wants to complain about Brooklyn and blame that on Wang needs to pop the head out of the rectum. Nassau had 20 years and four owners to come up with a building, and it came up short- I'm not blaming that on the owner, and you can't convince me otherwise, no matter what any of you say.

He did what he always said he would- he found a way to keep them here, where we CAN go see their home games, and I'll always be thankful to him for that, regardless of any other scenario for which I might think he's a dope. You want to complain that he's the reason I still have to watch Ricky Superstar play the net when he shouldn't, and I'm right with ya....but the building is not his fault, and he finally talked himself into doing the right thing, against his OWN wishes for his team. That is the bottom line, IMO.
- dcb1

Amen, broski.

No question the decision was a bad joke. That said, the team already was a league wide laughning stock and this was simply another staw to the bale. As for learning on the job, there are quite a few GM's over time who took over with little to no experience. Bobby Clarke took over as the Flyers GM promptly after retiring and led the Flyers to two Stanley Cup appearances. A fair amount of the GM's in the NHL have very little business experience at all, fortunately they hire bean counters to help.

The biggest problem for us as fans is it's difficulte to attribute just how much of the follies are the fault of Snow and how much are the fault of circumstance. From the individual transactions standpoint, I don't think we can say he's failed miserably and certainly he hasn't excelled. Soon we'll have a very level playing field that will allow us to really judge him.
- keaner17

Point taken with Clarke -- nice one. For the others..."little" experience is different than "no" experience. From my own experiences I can say that watching an old pro do a job, even for a brief period, is invaluable when you're thrown into the fire with very little experience yourself. I don't mean to pile on the "backup goalie GM" criticism, or imply that the man could never be a successful executive. Just saying that learning on the fly like that, with the mistakes and growing pains bound to come with it...in addition to stepping into a bad situation of running a franchise that everyone is still in the midst of laughing at because of what happened that offseason...I think those combined factors made it a much tougher deal than just an arena issue.

On your second point...the thing is, keaner, someone has to take ownership of something. If it's never the players' fault, the coach's fault, the GM's fault or the owner's fault, then where's the Truman within the Isles organization who says "The buck stops here?"

This team will be a serious contender if they stay the course. you guys have to see some of the results of being patient??!! no? I mean We have some quality young guys on this team and have a bunch of quality prospects almost ready to compete for spots. 2 years from now..

Jt/Moulson/Nino
Grabner/Strome/Brock
Bailey/Nielsen/Okp
Casey C/UFA/Martin
(Anders Lee? Kabanov? Persson? Sundstrom? dare I say Petrov?)

Defense
Hamonic/ Streit
Mayfield/ Amack
Dehaan/ Donovan
Reinhart/pedan/ UFA/

Goalies
Poulin
Koskinen/Nillson

you really don't think this team is going to be good? Is your hatred and anger that blinding? Add a top notch UFA D-man and Forward in the mix b/c we have tons of cap room and everyone else will have cap issues.
- niteislander

I completely understand your enthusiasm but we really dont know if any of those guys (highlited) are going to develop into the players we expect them to be! It's all (educated) Speculation.

There are 16 prospects. 16 ????? marks. If 1/4 turn into good players. (Thats a pretty liberal %) That still leave a lot of holes.

Thats why some prospects need to be traded before they turn out to be BUSTS!

Stock piling Prospects is great. You keep some and you use some to bring in established talent.

The key is to know your prospects better then the competition. And trade the ones that will not develop to expectations before anyone else finds out.

One more thing. 13 of those prospects (highlited above) have never seen an NHL Game. It's naive to believe that these players will be able to turn the Islander around with in 3 or 4 yrs!

Some are still 2-3 yrs away from the NHL. Then it will likely take 2-3 seasons to become accustomed to the NHL Game.

Best case is another 4 - 6 yrs waiting for them to become "productive" NHL players. By that time some of our Vets may have left or headed down hill.

Its impossible to build a team solely with this method.

That could but our 5 yr rebuild some where around 9-11 yrs! Thats realistic IMO.

...despite my doom and gloom posts today, I'll say I'm actually still somewhat optimistic for this season. As long as the players on the ice believe there's a chance and play like it, anything can happen.

There will be no excuses then. And I'll be one of the first to say, it's time to kick him to the curb. All though I wonder how those who fault him for the rain will react if the team does become successful.

I think most of us can agree that if this team has sound goaltending and adds a UFA forward and Dman of impact, the dynamic of this club changes dramatically. When present players who are asked to take impact roles suddenly become role players, this club quickly will be deeper and more dangerous.

But this whole assertion that a player can't become a GM with no experience is bullsheet. It's happened plenty of times.
- keaner17

If a stated 5-year rebuild becomes, say, an 8 or 9-year rebuild? I think we'll have to call it a draw...

Point taken with Clarke -- nice one. For the others..."little" experience is different than "no" experience. From my own experiences I can say that watching an old pro do a job, even for a brief period, is invaluable when you're thrown into the fire with very little experience yourself. I don't mean to pile on the "backup goalie GM" criticism, or imply that the man could never be a successful executive. Just saying that learning on the fly like that, with the mistakes and growing pains bound to come with it...in addition to stepping into a bad situation of running a franchise that everyone is still in the midst of laughing at because of what happened that offseason...I think those combined factors made it a much tougher deal than just an arena issue.

On your second point...the thing is, keaner, someone has to take ownership of something. If it's never the players' fault, the coach's fault, the GM's fault or the owner's fault, then where's the Truman within the Isles organization who says "The buck stops here?"
- UIF[/quote]

There are actually other examples of GM's who went directly from playing careers as well but I won't beat that horse. I agree that it's helpful to do 'sit-withs' for training though in a GM role I think the most important thing is who you surround yourself with. A GM is only as good as his scouts. When Snow took the job I nearly fell out of my seat but after thinking about it for a few minutes, I realized that it wasn't as bad as it seemed. Few positions in a sport lend themselves more to learning the complete aspects of a game and it's players more than a goaltender. That said, I agree that this was NOT a good situation for an owner to take a leap of faith.

As far as the blame game, we've all been over this ground over and over and I think the answer is 'all of the above'. There are some who probably deserve the blame more than others. The Isles have been in the 'perfect storm' for failure for years now. Still, the stadium issue is far and away the biggest issue for this teams inability to succeed over the last 20 years. Teams like Buffalo and Pittsburgh, who also suffered through SMG escaped due to miracle help from their state and ownership. The Isles haven't really had that luxury. Their own state left them for dead. The fact that they're still here can only be attributed to their cable contract.

Snow isn't without blame, I've mentioned plenty of mistakes I've felt he made. But he's also managed to find diamonds in the rough that now (IMO) have us 2-3 moves from becoming a dangerous competitor. Under the circumstances, that has to be appreciated.

If a stated 5-year rebuild becomes, say, an 8 or 9-year rebuild? I think we'll have to call it a draw...
- UIF

Heh...I suppose. I guess the big question and most debateable point is, if another GM were in Snow's position, would we be a contender today? I suppose it's impossible to answer with any certainty but I'd be inclined to say 'no'. The stadium issues combined with things like the NY tax structure make it very tough to convince someone to make their millions here.

Here you go:

Arthur Staple ‏@StapeNewsday
If Hamonic can't go, Martinek in. Hickey stays in on D. #Isles

Arthur Staple ‏@StapeNewsday
Nabokov in goal, Cizikas back in for Boulton, Hamonic game-time decision for #Isles tonight vs. Pitt.

Point taken with Clarke -- nice one. For the others..."little" experience is different than "no" experience. From my own experiences I can say that watching an old pro do a job, even for a brief period, is invaluable when you're thrown into the fire with very little experience yourself. I don't mean to pile on the "backup goalie GM" criticism, or imply that the man could never be a successful executive. Just saying that learning on the fly like that, with the mistakes and growing pains bound to come with it...in addition to stepping into a bad situation of running a franchise that everyone is still in the midst of laughing at because of what happened that offseason...I think those combined factors made it a much tougher deal than just an arena issue.

On your second point...the thing is, keaner, someone has to take ownership of something. If it's never the players' fault, the coach's fault, the GM's fault or the owner's fault, then where's the Truman within the Isles organization who says "The buck stops here?"
- UIF

i cant fault garth for taking the job, therefore i give him credit for doing the best he can with the limited resources available to him; AND the fact that its acknowledged that he was thrown into the deepend with a raft should buy him some more time and dare i say, sympathy? if i were to blame someone, it would be wang...i dont think anyone points to anyone but charles for that decision.