Your case for Subban being a good player is mentioning his plus-minus stat?

Thank you, come again.
- mochoson

I provide somes stats to support that Subban is a good player. Your only argument is that he is part of a bad team...


There's no use arguing with you anymore.

I think a lot of both so I say seriously stupid?
- al3535

You should know...takes an idiot to recognize one....

I can see you're easily impressed. He might be the best thing for the Oilers. Jones will look good on this team. At what point will there be a system in place that doesn't result in a bottom 3 pick?

I notice you didn't correct the "fire the Gm" comment.
- 93Matty

Love when Leafs fans insult the oilers about picking high. Let us look at the leafs past several years of first round picks. 2008-5th overall Schenn(nice pick) 2009-7th overall kadri(also nice pick) 2010-2nd overall Tyler Seguin(great trade) 2011-9th overall Dougie Hamilton 2012-5th overall Morgan rielly.
5th last, 7th last, 2nd last, 9th last, and 5th last and youre talking about high picks? bahahahahahahahahaha

Agree. Subban is not Pietrangello or Doughty. But he already a good defenseman, he will be part of the elite sooner than later. Right now he deserve more money than Del Zotto.


For fun. Does the Oilers could win more game with Subban instead of Hall in their line up?
- Dlkif

The Oilers live and die with Hall. When he is on he takes over. PK is never at that level.

Subban is no where near the level of Hall.

Don't think most people think Subban is a Pietrangello or Dougty. Even him say last week that he doesn't want Doughty money...

Don't make me wrong here. I don't compare Subban to Hall. Just asking because the Oilers needs defenseman and they have a lot of talented players up front.

Still not sure how anyone argues that as of right now, Eberle is our best player.

Don't think most people think Subban is a Pietrangello or Dougty. Even him say last week that he doesn't want Doughty money...

Don't make me wrong here. I don't compare Subban to Hall. Just asking because the Oilers needs defenseman and they have a lot of talented players up front.
- Dlkif

They have offensive defenceman. They need more of physical intimidator thats positionally sound. No offence but PKs simply not there yet. The asking price would likely make such a trade a no-go.

I provide somes stats to support that Subban is a good player. Your only argument is that he is part of a bad team...


There's no use arguing with you anymore.
- Dlkif

You provided his time on ice stat and his plus-minus, which is indicitive of absolutely nothing.

My arguement has nothing to do with his team. My argument is he's over-rated.

But I guess I'm wrong. After all, he was a plus six on a lottery team. Hell probably win the Norris this year if he ever accepts his 2 year, 5 million dollar offer. Quite a steal for an elite dman.

You without question need Hall more. Hall is an elite talent.

Again, Subban is a very talented young dman. I just think its funny how everyone's saying Subban will definitely be amongst the Pietrangelos, Doughtys and Karlssons when all of those guys are already cornerstones of their TEAMS, not even just their blue-lines, and they were all drafted after him.

Could Subban be in that discussion eventually? Of course. Am I really not making that much sense here? Does no one get what I'm saying?
- mochoson

yeah I don't rate him in the Norris-caliber class with those guys. I compare him to guys like OEL, Hedman etc., guys who play all or most situations, usually against the other team's best. But none of those guys have taken next step which usually involves high-end offensive production.

Still not sure how anyone argues that as of right now, Eberle is our best player.
- sanfordnson

It's why I added IMHO in front of my statement, because I know not everyone agrees with it. OF course it's up for argument though, the only reason you dont think so is because you obviously prefer Eberle.

You should know...takes an idiot to recognize one....
- Iggysbff

This is the thanks I get after defending you in the Anaheim blog? For shame, for shame!!

It's why I added IMHO in front of my statement, because I know not everyone agrees with it. OF course it's up for argument though, the only reason you dont think so is because you obviously prefer Eberle.
- Jack-artist

Just because of intangibles. He always seems to score when its needed, never looks flustered, obviously has great offensive production and is underestimated for his play away from the puck. Hall is definitely on his level though.

yeah I don't rate him in the Norris-caliber class with those guys. I compare him to guys like OEL, Hedman etc., guys who play all or most situations, usually against the other team's best. But none of those guys have taken next step which usually involves high-end offensive production.
- Jack-artist

I'd take Hedman and especially OEL over Subban Anyday. OEL is borderline elite. I'd put Subban towards the lower end of the group of guys you've mentioned. I'd still take Kulikov or Alzner over Subban but I'd tak Subban before MDZ, Ellis, Fowler, etc

Just because of intangibles. He always seems to score when its needed, never looks flustered, obviously has great offensive production and is underestimated for his play away from the puck. Hall is definitely on his level though.
- sanfordnson

Yakupov is clutch now too!!!


Happy goals!!!

Look at schultz's AHL and college numbers compared to Gardiner. And even look at his defensive play in the NHL. It's solid. Gardiner is awful in his own end.
- TheNugeIsHuge

Clearly don't watch a lot of leafs hockey. Which is understandable because why would you? but don't go saying something you don't know. Gardnier is not bad in his own end really at all. Especially considering he was a rookie last year and that not being his strong point he did very well in his own end. I'm also not stupid and going to come in here and say he's better than schultzs cause obviously he's more than likely going to be the better player of the two. At the same time Gardnier was probably one of if not the best Leafs Dman last year. He got sent down cause he missed 7 weeks of playing and the leafs are letting him play a bit before keeping him up but also because he doesn't have to clear waivers like other dmen on the roster do. They have to figure out what to do with people like franson, Komi, Fraser. He's not playing in the AHL cause he's not good enough to play in the NHL like some people are suggesting.

Just because of intangibles. He always seems to score when its needed, never looks flustered, obviously has great offensive production and is underestimated for his play away from the puck. Hall is definitely on his level though.
- sanfordnson

I find Eberle the more aesthetically pleasing player that's for sure. I guess from an intangible perspective, I've always found that Hall has an effect on the team where they're significantly better at gaining the zone and getting chances on the net with him on the ice.

I'd take Hedman and especially OEL over Subban Anyday. OEL is borderline elite. I'd put Subban towards the lower end of the group of guys you've mentioned. I'd still take Kulikov or Alzner over Subban but I'd tak Subban before MDZ, Ellis, Fowler, etc
- mochoson

Kulikov is pretty underrated I agree. Subban is a lot better defensively than he gets credit for, I take him over Alzner just because he provides a lot more offense.

Paajarvi AND a 2nd for Subban? That's more then fair.

This is PK Subban, not Alex Pietrangelo. Idk why everyone thinks he's this budding Norris Trophy candidate. He's a good young dman, no doubt. But some of the offers I've seen for him are insane. Couldn't be more obvious half the people on this website haven't really seen him play. The 5-6 million dollar tags associate with his name is even more hilarious.

And to the genius' arguing "Schultz vs. Gardiner", your all (frank)ing lame. Lets sit there and argue who's a better NHL player: The guy who's played 1 season vs. The guy who's played 5 games.

News flash Richardfaces: Their not comparable. Bring it up again when both guys have played 300 games, 150 at the absolute least. (frank)ing Christ. I know every fan-base loves hypin up young players, but seriously. These are ROOKIE NHL DEFENSMEN. The same players you all say "need time to properly develop and adjust to the NHL". How about we be patient and let them do so? Maybe? Yes?
- mochoson

A second and MPS for Subban is not more than fair...just no...MPS cant even crack the oilers roster and yet that gets it done for a top 4dman who would instantly become the best defender on the oilers?

Paajarvi AND a 2nd for Subban? That's more then fair.

This is PK Subban, not Alex Pietrangelo. Idk why everyone thinks he's this budding Norris Trophy candidate. He's a good young dman, no doubt. But some of the offers I've seen for him are insane. Couldn't be more obvious half the people on this website haven't really seen him play. The 5-6 million dollar tags associate with his name is even more hilarious.

And to the genius' arguing "Schultz vs. Gardiner", your all (frank)ing lame. Lets sit there and argue who's a better NHL player: The guy who's played 1 season vs. The guy who's played 5 games.

News flash Richardfaces: Their not comparable. Bring it up again when both guys have played 300 games, 150 at the absolute least. (frank)ing Christ. I know every fan-base loves hypin up young players, but seriously. These are ROOKIE NHL DEFENSMEN. The same players you all say "need time to properly develop and adjust to the NHL". How about we be patient and let them do so? Maybe? Yes?
- mochoson

A second and MPS for Subban is not more than fair...just no...MPS cant even crack the oilers roster and yet that gets it done for a top 4dman who would instantly become the best defender on the oilers?

Link to Oil Change preview this year:

http://vimeo.com/57950355

Kadri was mis handled by a horrible coach. Most leafs fans will be glad to explain how crappy RonW was. A reason our GM was let go, fairly as well.

I'm thinking you didn't watch him play last year... Who had a better year as a rookie D?

The thing is, we got to see him have a great year last year, Oilers are EXPECTING a great year from Shultz.

As for the Oilers currently have a better D-Man... Continue to laugh... The rest of the league is laughing with/at you guys as well.
- 93Matty

lol, way to take a compliment.

A second and MPS for Subban is not more than fair...just no...MPS cant even crack the oilers roster and yet that gets it done for a top 4dman who would instantly become the best defender on the oilers?
- 6Karlsson5

He'd be the Oilers best dman?

Run through the last 3 pages and get back to me. Your late to this party.

Hey guys, lots of talk about PK Subban on the board today. I'll just give my two cents and I'll bet you can appreciate it...

You know how everyone always judges Hall based on his numbers? and they don't actually watch him play live and see his effort/talent/etc.? I live in MTL and watch the Habs live a lot. PK is a bigmouth, smartass, agitating kid. I fully understand if others do not like him and I also understand how coaches and teammates love his heart.

He is the real deal though. His talent level is incredible and he is FULL of heart, enthusiasm, and confidence. I would welcome him with open arms on the Oilers and he would fit right in. He's waaaaaaaay better than people on the boards are giving credit for and I think it's a similar kind of thing with people basing opinions via highlights and stats. He's electric in the same type of way Hall is, but you can't really see that unless you're there.

Anyway, just my two bits. I wouldn't trade Taylor Hall for almost anyone.

Hey guys, lots of talk about PK Subban on the board today. I'll just give my two cents and I'll bet you can appreciate it...

You know how everyone always judges Hall based on his numbers? and they don't actually watch him play live and see his effort/talent/etc.? I live in MTL and watch the Habs live a lot. PK is a bigmouth, smartass, agitating kid. I fully understand if others do not like him and I also understand how coaches and teammates love his heart.

He is the real deal though. His talent level is incredible and he is FULL of heart, enthusiasm, and confidence. I would welcome him with open arms on the Oilers and he would fit right in. He's waaaaaaaay better than people on the boards are giving credit for and I think it's a similar kind of thing with people basing opinions via highlights and stats. He's electric in the same type of way Hall is, but you can't really see that unless you're there.

Anyway, just my two bits. I wouldn't trade Taylor Hall for almost anyone.
- JLO961

Good post.

Paajarvi AND a 2nd for Subban? That's more then fair.

This is PK Subban, not Alex Pietrangelo. Idk why everyone thinks he's this budding Norris Trophy candidate. He's a good young dman, no doubt. But some of the offers I've seen for him are insane. Couldn't be more obvious half the people on this website haven't really seen him play. The 5-6 million dollar tags associate with his name is even more hilarious.

And to the genius' arguing "Schultz vs. Gardiner", your all (frank)ing lame. Lets sit there and argue who's a better NHL player: The guy who's played 1 season vs. The guy who's played 5 games.

News flash Richardfaces: Their not comparable. Bring it up again when both guys have played 300 games, 150 at the absolute least. (frank)ing Christ. I know every fan-base loves hypin up young players, but seriously. These are ROOKIE NHL DEFENSMEN. The same players you all say "need time to properly develop and adjust to the NHL". How about we be patient and let them do so? Maybe? Yes?
- mochoson

Lots of angst in this little rant. PK is worth more than double what you've offered, Gardiner couldn't hold Schultz jock-strap he has so much less confidence and ability (mainly confidence), and when you Leaf fans get all red-faced it is more than a little obvious why. Go have a beer for f s.