Case in point. Most of the players you've listed are pretty much second liners in terms of talent, production and circumstance.

So is Kassian now considered a "top 3" winger now? No. There are plenty of players around the league in roles/on lines not because of their abilities, but because of circumstance. (See Bozak - As you have listed)

Has Burrows been "top 3" because there was no one else? Most likely. Seriously, who else could the Canucks have put with the Sedins that would have been better? The Canucks have tried numerous players up there with the Sedins and Burrows has been the best fit, it's as simple as that. By no means does that make Burrows a legit "top 3 winger." When people talk about "top 3 wingers," names like D. Sedin, Ovechkin, Perry, Parise, Iginla, P. Kane, Kovalchuk are mentioned... NOT BURROWS!

Perhaps our definition of what defines "a top 3" is different.

Think about it. If Burrows was going to be traded, would he be traded as a "top 3" or a "top 6?" My money is on the latter

Again, it's not a knock on Burrows because he is an decent player, he's just not a bona fide "top 3," IMO.
- As_I_See_It

Okay friend, let's make it like this.

Is Kunitz a top line player? Yes he is, because he plays with Crosby. Is Burrows better than Kunitz? Obviously. So what you are doing is taking 1 top winger from the 1st line and comparing him to Burrows. Burrows is the 2nd best winger on the top line, so why not compare him to 2nd best wingers instead of best wingers on teams.

This study is going to prove me right, fyi.

ha ha, it was all auto-pick. Well, other than Quick, I took him with my first pick. I don't really care about who I have on my fantasy team, its more about beating the HB elite, which isn't going too well so far.

EDIT - oh yeah, I also have Brad "the beak" Marchand...
- 1970vintage

My girlfriend took that rat bastard and I remind her of that every night while I explain that she is on the couch again.

My girlfriend took that rat bastard and I remind her of that every night while I explain that she is on the couch again.
- Marwood

Got it, don't order anything that doesn't come in a sealed container.

My girlfriend took that rat bastard and I remind her of that every night while I explain that she is on the couch again.
- Marwood

Lol my hockey team does a draft pool every year...and now everytime someone picks a bruin they get boo'd

Top 15 first lines in NHL. (from 2010)

15 - Briere Giroux Hartnell
14 - Miettinen Koivu Brunette
13 - Huselius Nash Vermette
12 - Dubinsky Gaborik Prospal
11 - Allfredsson Spezza Michalek
10 - Downie Stamkos St Louis
9 - Datsyuk Fransen Holmstrom
8 - Getzlaf Perry Ryan
7 - Brouwer Kane Toews
6 - Langenbruner Zajac Parise
5 - Eriksson Neal Richards
4 - Crosby Malkin Kunitz
3 - Burrows Sedin Sedin
2 - Backstrom Knuble Ovechkin
1 - Heatley Marleau Thornton

Only 3-4 lines there where Burrows wouldn't make that top line.

source: http://bleacherreport.com...op-15-first-lines/page/16

So the Leafs don't have any top 3 players?
- hankthetank

Kessel. Maaaaaaaaaybe Lupul, but even that's a stretch.

Your point?

Really liked Schroeder's game last night. Very confident with his passes, great skating, and handled himself well defensively.

Hope he continues the good play and retains a spot even when Kesler and Booth are back.

#14, but I don't think I should even be on that list, I don't troll...
- 1970vintage

I didn't think I did, either just the odd retaliatory remark. I guess they hit home when I make them.

Really liked Schroeder's game last night. Very confident with his passes, great skating, and handled himself well defensively.

Hope he continues the good play and retains a spot even when Kesler and Booth are back.
- Fosco

Agreed. I'm hoping Kassian is playing this well by mid next month and beyond. Would hate to see him disappear after a week or two of good hockey.

Okay friend, let's make it like this.

Is Kunitz a top line player? Yes he is, because he plays with Crosby. Is Burrows better than Kunitz? Obviously. So what you are doing is taking 1 top winger from the 1st line and comparing him to Burrows. Burrows is the 2nd best winger on the top line, so why not compare him to 2nd best wingers instead of best wingers on teams.

This study is going to prove me right, fyi.
- Scooby_Doo

IF Kunitz is considered "top 3," it not because of TALENT, it's because of circumstance. Therefore not a true "top 3." Neal would round out the Pens' "top 3," but those players are split to distribute scoring. Kunitz, LIKE Burrows is not a bona fide "top 3."

#2 wingers around the league:
Anaheim - Ryan or Selanne (after Perry) - I'd take both before Burrows
Boston - Lucic or Horton (after Seguin) - I'd take both before Burrows
Buffalo - Pominville (after Vanek) - I'd take Pommer before Burrows
Calgary - Cammy or Glencross (after Iginla) - Comparable to Burrows
Carolina - Skinner (after Semin) - I'd take Skinner before Burrows
Chicago - Sharp (after Kane/ Hossa) - I'd take both before Burrows

What about multi-position players, how do they factor in?

I'm not going to go through the entire league, but after just the first 6 teams alphabetically, Burrows DEFINITELY isn't above the #2 W on 5 of 6 teams I've listed. Cammy and Glencross vs. Burrows could go either way.

Really liked Schroeder's game last night. Very confident with his passes, great skating, and handled himself well defensively.

Hope he continues the good play and retains a spot even when Kesler and Booth are back.
- Fosco

Yeah, I didn't notice him a lot, which I think for his first game is a good thing. I did notice him not shying away from physical play, which was nice. He was also +1 in the GvA TkA department and kept his shifts short, which I would think makes the coach happy.

Agreed. I'm hoping Kassian is playing this well by mid next month and beyond. Would hate to see him disappear after a week or two of good hockey.
- Marwood

That seemed to be the biggest concern with Kassian: consistency. We'll see what happens but if he stays with the Sedins it's tough not to be forced to bring it every night when the other 2 guys on your line are.

Top 15 first lines in NHL. (from 2010)

15 - Briere Giroux Hartnell
14 - Miettinen Koivu Brunette
13 - Huselius Nash Vermette
12 - Dubinsky Gaborik Prospal
11 - Allfredsson Spezza Michalek
10 - Downie Stamkos St Louis
9 - Datsyuk Fransen Holmstrom
8 - Getzlaf Perry Ryan
7 - Brouwer Kane Toews
6 - Langenbruner Zajac Parise
5 - Eriksson Neal Richards
4 - Crosby Malkin Kunitz
3 - Burrows Sedin Sedin
2 - Backstrom Knuble Ovechkin
1 - Heatley Marleau Thornton

Only 3-4 lines there where Burrows wouldn't make that top line.

source: http://bleacherreport.com...op-15-first-lines/page/16
- Scooby_Doo

Please use today's lines. Thanks.

FYI... Sedin/Sedin + WHOEVER was making that list.

That seemed to be the biggest concern with Kassian: consistency. We'll see what happens but if he stays with the Sedins it's tough not to be forced to bring it every night when the other 2 guys on your line are.
- AlexF

Did you see AV's presser after the game? Kind of called out the Sedins while complimenting Kassian.

Please use today's lines. Thanks.
- As_I_See_It

Kyle Palmieri
Ryan Getzlaf
Corey Perry

Brad Marchand
Patrice Bergeron
Tyler Seguin

Thomas Vanek
Cody Hodgson
Jason Pominville

Michael Cammalleri
Mikael Backlund
Jarome Iginla

Drayson Bowman
Eric Staal
Alexander Semin

Brandon Saad
Jonathan Toews
Marian Hossa

Gabriel Landeskog
Matt Duchene
P.A. Parenteau

R.J. Umberger
Derick Brassard
Derek Dorsett

Loui Eriksson
Derek Roy
Jaromir Jagr


Todd Bertuzzi
Pavel Datsyuk
Valtteri Filppula

Taylor Hall
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
Jordan Eberle

Tomas Fleischmann
Stephen Weiss
Tomas Kopecky

Justin Williams
Anze Kopitar
Dustin Brown

Zach Parise
Mikko Koivu
Dany Heatley

Max Pacioretty
David Desharnais
Erik Cole

Martin Erat
Mike Fisher
Sergei Kostitsyn

Mattias Tedenby
Travis Zajac
Ilya Kovalchuk

Matt Moulson
John Tavares
Kyle Okposo

Rick Nash
Brad Richards
Marian Gaborik

Milan Michalek
Jason Spezza
Jakob Silfverberg

Scott Hartnell
Claude Giroux
Jakub Voracek

Steve Sullivan
Antoine Vermette
Shane Doan

Chris Kunitz
Sidney Crosby
Pascal Dupuis

Patrick Marleau
Joe Thornton
Joe Pavelski

David Perron
David Backes
T.J. Oshie

Ryan Malone
Steven Stamkos
Martin St. Louis

Clarke MacArthur
Tyler Bozak
Phil Kessel

Wojtek Wolski
Nicklas Backstrom
Alex Ovechkin

Evander Kane
Olli Jokinen
Blake Wheeler

Pretty sure that Burrow makes 80% of these teams better as a first liner.

That seemed to be the biggest concern with Kassian: consistency. We'll see what happens but if he stays with the Sedins it's tough not to be forced to bring it every night when the other 2 guys on your line are.
- AlexF

He has the talent to be better than Lucic, but Kassian is known to be a headcase.

I think Montana for the golf trip this year. My wife is heading out to the Island on Feb 7th for 10 days. I can't go, I'll be in Florida on business.
- KABLOOEY

The worldwide janitor convention is in Florida this year?


Seriously, what part are you gonna be in. I'll be in central Florida for 2 weeks, leaving on the 6th.

Kyle Palmieri
Ryan Getzlaf
Corey Perry

Brad Marchand
Patrice Bergeron
Tyler Seguin

Thomas Vanek
Cody Hodgson
Jason Pominville

Michael Cammalleri
Mikael Backlund
Jarome Iginla

Drayson Bowman
Eric Staal
Alexander Semin

Brandon Saad
Jonathan Toews
Marian Hossa

Gabriel Landeskog
Matt Duchene
P.A. Parenteau

R.J. Umberger
Derick Brassard
Derek Dorsett

Loui Eriksson
Derek Roy
Jaromir Jagr


Todd Bertuzzi
Pavel Datsyuk
Valtteri Filppula

Taylor Hall
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
Jordan Eberle

Tomas Fleischmann
Stephen Weiss
Tomas Kopecky

Justin Williams
Anze Kopitar
Dustin Brown

Zach Parise
Mikko Koivu
Dany Heatley

Max Pacioretty
David Desharnais
Erik Cole

Martin Erat
Mike Fisher
Sergei Kostitsyn

Mattias Tedenby
Travis Zajac
Ilya Kovalchuk

Matt Moulson
John Tavares
Kyle Okposo

Rick Nash
Brad Richards
Marian Gaborik

Milan Michalek
Jason Spezza
Jakob Silfverberg

Scott Hartnell
Claude Giroux
Jakub Voracek

Steve Sullivan
Antoine Vermette
Shane Doan

Chris Kunitz
Sidney Crosby
Pascal Dupuis

Patrick Marleau
Joe Thornton
Joe Pavelski

David Perron
David Backes
T.J. Oshie

Ryan Malone
Steven Stamkos
Martin St. Louis

Clarke MacArthur
Tyler Bozak
Phil Kessel

Wojtek Wolski
Nicklas Backstrom
Alex Ovechkin

Evander Kane
Olli Jokinen
Blake Wheeler

Pretty sure that Burrow makes 80% of these teams better as a first liner.
- 1970vintage

Not every team puts their top 3 forwards on their first line, players like Hossa, B. Ryan, Malkin, Jeff Carter, Lucic, Skinner, Zetterberg. All of them are ahead of Burrows

Did you see AV's presser after the game? Kind of called out the Sedins while complimenting Kassian.
- 1970vintage

Yeah. I was calling out the Sedins here on the forum last night. If they're on song this team is flying. If they're average then so are we. They're the only ones who can mask our other deficiencies and with the current depth that we have on the forward lines it really is that simple.

Not every team puts their top 3 forwards on their first line, players like Hossa, B. Ryan, Malkin, Jeff Carter, Lucic, Skinner, Zetterberg. All of them are ahead of Burrows
- sbroads24

He asked for today's lineups, I obliged. Do you think that there are 58 better all around wingers in the game today than Burrows?

Most biased blogger on this site, pure comedy. Canuckland has been over-valuing their team for over a decade with ONE finals appearance, not even a win. I believe they are the current leaders for professional sports teams without a championship. It's fun to watch them flounder, actually. Cheap, dirty, whiney players followed by hockey-illiterate fans. They stole the U2 warmup song from another team, stole the "woooooooo" when they score from Boston, and each year it is ONE person's fault for their failure. The Province has had headlines in past years in April blaming the likes of Bure, Naslund, Messier, Luongo. No wonder these guys want out. Watch Vigneault's face on almost every penalty against them....it's this ridiculous, "oh, everyone is always against us" look. That same lazy, entitled attitude runs rampant in the Canucks organization from the GM to the players and to the fans. WHen's the last time Bieksa hit someone while the play was going and the opposing player was facing him? Kessler....lol...yeah....too easy.

Kassian is not only becoming the best power forward in the game, but maybe one of the best players in the game. He can score, hit, pass and his defensive game is impressive. If he keeps playing with the Sedins I think he can make a serious push for 40 or 50 goals this year. IF he keeps playing with the Sedins. He is a total force out there. Kassian can score at will. Something we haven't seen in a long time.
- hankthetank

If you post it, they will come. He is definitely skating better than last year.

Most biased blogger on this site, pure comedy. Canuckland has been over-valuing their team for over a decade with ONE finals appearance, not even a win. I believe they are the current leaders for professional sports teams without a championship. It's fun to watch them flounder, actually. Cheap, dirty, whiney players followed by hockey-illiterate fans. They stole the U2 warmup song from another team, stole the "woooooooo" when they score from Boston, and each year it is ONE person's fault for their failure. The Province has had headlines in past years in April blaming the likes of Bure, Naslund, Messier, Luongo. No wonder these guys want out. Watch Vigneault's face on almost every penalty against them....it's this ridiculous, "oh, everyone is always against us" look. That same lazy, entitled attitude runs rampant in the Canucks organization from the GM to the players and to the fans. WHen's the last time Bieksa hit someone while the play was going and the opposing player was facing him? Kessler....lol...yeah....too easy.





- JLO961

Hi!

Most biased blogger on this site, pure comedy. Canuckland has been over-valuing their team for over a decade with ONE finals appearance, not even a win. I believe they are the current leaders for professional sports teams without a championship. It's fun to watch them flounder, actually. Cheap, dirty, whiney players followed by hockey-illiterate fans. They stole the U2 warmup song from another team, stole the "woooooooo" when they score from Boston, and each year it is ONE person's fault for their failure. The Province has had headlines in past years in April blaming the likes of Bure, Naslund, Messier, Luongo. No wonder these guys want out. Watch Vigneault's face on almost every penalty against them....it's this ridiculous, "oh, everyone is always against us" look. That same lazy, entitled attitude runs rampant in the Canucks organization from the GM to the players and to the fans. WHen's the last time Bieksa hit someone while the play was going and the opposing player was facing him? Kessler....lol...yeah....too easy.


- JLO961

What's your name, sweetheart?

Most biased blogger on this site, pure comedy. Canuckland has been over-valuing their team for over a decade with ONE finals appearance, not even a win. I believe they are the current leaders for professional sports teams without a championship. It's fun to watch them flounder, actually. Cheap, dirty, whiney players followed by hockey-illiterate fans. They stole the U2 warmup song from another team, stole the "woooooooo" when they score from Boston, and each year it is ONE person's fault for their failure. The Province has had headlines in past years in April blaming the likes of Bure, Naslund, Messier, Luongo. No wonder these guys want out. Watch Vigneault's face on almost every penalty against them....it's this ridiculous, "oh, everyone is always against us" look. That same lazy, entitled attitude runs rampant in the Canucks organization from the GM to the players and to the fans. WHen's the last time Bieksa hit someone while the play was going and the opposing player was facing him? Kessler....lol...yeah....too easy.


- JLO961

Hi, you must be new , welcome to hockeybuzz. Be sure to check out Cloutier's blogs, Garth's blogs or anything Leafs. Have a nice day!