It's obvious after one game??
- burn

Yes.

The one and only game hes ever had to ride the bench. With his one coach Wilson Eakins Carlyle the third.

One game. Ever.

Whats with this top 5 bs? You can get franchise changing players anywhere in the first. So get more firsts and increase your chances. Sounds logical enough. What do the Leafs have to lose? Their 5th worst spot in the standings?
- systemtool

top 5 were the lottery picks before. only reason I used that number. Just saying, you can tank now, finish last, and end up drafting 14th.

What if they waited till April and he rips it up and now is asking for way more???? Waiting does come with it's own risks.
- burn

Id rather go the safer route and not assume this team is playoff bound as opposed to the reality that they most likely miss it.

Like, what if he gets injured again? What if we miss the playoffs the next 3 years?

Glucky, you're not understanding my point. Its that they shouldnt have signed Lupul until they knew they were in a position to realisticly make the playoffs. They have until April to trade him. Why not wait and see if you're a playoff team or not before commitingto an injury prone player for 5 years? Thats my point.

Keeping our picks is just important as adding to them. Especially when you're not a team that has the best of luck with draft/development.
- systemtool

And I don't disagree with your point.

What I'm saying is if they've identified him as a guy worth keeping around long-term, they should.

No top-line position is easy to fill. Creating a hole to possibly fill another one isn't the best move.

top 5 were the lottery picks before. only reason I used that number. Just saying, you can tank now, finish last, and end up drafting 14th.
- prock

Solid and elite players are taken in the mid/late first round all the time.

So many examples.

had played a game at that point?
- bixll

Nope.

Id rather go the safer route and not assume this team is playoff bound as opposed to the reality that they most likely miss it.

Like, what if he gets injured again? What if we miss the playoffs the next 3 years?
- systemtool

What if the guy we trade him for doesn't become an NHL regular(50/50 chance)- let alone a top-line player?

What if that guy himself gets hurt?

what ifs what ifs what ifs.

And I don't disagree with your point.

What I'm saying is if they've identified him as a guy worth keeping around long-term, they should.

No top-line position is easy to fill. Creating a hole to possibly fill another one isn't the best move.
- Feeling Glucky?

Creating a hole on a bad team is not the end of the world. Especially a rebuilding team.

Creating a hole on a good team to fill another hole is what should be avoided.

If by trading Lupul we get or end up drafting our 1st line center of the future, then we still have Kessel and can add one of our other many wingers to that line. Lupul is our best trading chip for that.

- burn

What's so funny, Kesler being a top-liner or Staal being better than Lupul?

Id rather go the safer route and not assume this team is playoff bound as opposed to the reality that they most likely miss it.

Like, what if he gets injured again? What if we miss the playoffs the next 3 years?
- systemtool

If they let Lupul walk or trade him I think Kessel also goes too.... then at that point what do you really have on this team? (frank) all I'd say.

What if the guy we trade him for doesn't become an NHL regular(50/50 chance)- let alone a top-line player?

What if that guy himself gets hurt?

what ifs what ifs what ifs.
- Feeling Glucky?

Then we're not stuck with a 5 year, 5 million plus contract?

If they let Lupul walk or trade him I think Kessel also goes too.... then at that point what do you really have on this team? (frank) all I'd say.
- Mr_Smokey

Trade, not walk. Jesus Larry Murphy.

This team has done (frank) all for about 10 years. So we just keep repeating the same things we've already tried?

Clearly ignored. Not enough time spent healthy and playing has passed to be satisfied that a guy with only one 70 game season in the last 5 is good enough to leave injuries behind for the next 5 years.
- systemtool

He does have a 70+ games in one season in the last 5 years (08-09 79 games)

Last year he missed last 16 games with a shoulder injury

He had back surgery Dec09 and after missing time from 09-11 hasn't had an of those issues since. Seems that is in the past.

Trade, not walk. Jesus Larry Murphy.
- systemtool

I know what you mean but there's the possibility the Leafs push for a playoff spot, keep Lupul, they don't make it and he wants much more than 5.25....

He is never going to be who they want him to be. If this is going to happen every time he plays the only way he knows how to play, whats going to change? It sure isnt going to be him. Its not an over reacting, its stating the obvious. Lets take off the blue blockers.
- systemtool

he's 3rd line... he played 3rd line minutes. He's poope on faceoffs and suspect defensively. Not going to get much ice in 3rd period of a 2-1 game.

Now, I am surprisaed hbe didn't get more PP time than he did. That I think they need to fix.

2 more mins of PP time, and he's at nearly 12 mins for the game.

He does have a 70+ games in one season in the last 5 years (08-09 79 games)

Last year he missed last 16 games with a shoulder injury

He had back surgery Dec09 and after missing time from 09-11 hasn't had an of those issues since. Seems that is in the past.
- burn

Reread the post. Thats what I said. 1 in the last 5.


Both injuries are injuries that are reoccuring. On not ones you just brush off as in the past, and risk a 5 year commitment on. We're talking athletes here, not pencil pushers.

he didnt do that at all...
- twiztedmike

The Kessel deal wasn't cutting a corner to get to the playoffs faster when he grossly underestimated how bad his team was? That never happened?

and you ignore the fact that kessel was like 21 years old at the time of thr trade
- twiztedmike

And you ignore the fact that Seguin and Hamilton are not only younger but are also better players to build a team around.

Id rather go the safer route and not assume this team is playoff bound as opposed to the reality that they most likely miss it.

Like, what if he gets injured again? What if we miss the playoffs the next 3 years?
- systemtool

What does that have to do with anything?

I know what you mean but there's the possibility the Leafs push for a playoff spot, keep Lupul, they don't make it and he wants much more than 5.25....
- Mr_Smokey

Im more comfortable dealing with that than missing the playoffs, keeping Lupul and finishing in 10th.

What's so funny, Kesler being a top-liner or Staal being better than Lupul?
- Mr_Clean

Kessler better than half the #1 centers. I doubt it.

What if the guy we trade him for doesn't become an NHL regular(50/50 chance)- let alone a top-line player?

What if that guy himself gets hurt?

what ifs what ifs what ifs.
- Feeling Glucky?

Uggie's answer: you have to draft the best guy.

You make sure the guy you draft is a future HHOF.

Oh, by the way, the way to win 6/49 is to pick the six correct numbers.

What does that have to do with anything?
- burn

It has everything to do with the direction of the team and whether or not it was smart for a team in Torontos position to be signing 5 year deals to a guy thats almost 30 with a long history of being injured.

Uggie's answer: you have to draft the best guy.

You make sure the guy you draft is a future HHOF.

Oh, by the way, the way to win 6/49 is to pick the six correct numbers.
- Atomic Wedgie

Nope.
- Mr_Clean

Then that would not qualify.

Lost in this endless debate is that drafting well and high leads to trades for needs