He said it doesn't guarantee you a great team. There are many examples of teams that have sucked for years, and not gotten a great team out of it.
- prock

You mean examples of low budget teams that can't afford to hire the right people to do the right job?

Comparing small market, broke ass teams to the Leafs in resources is just comical.

because by all accounts he's a good leader.

Vets help the young guys get established. That's why Edmonton brought back Smyth.

That's why St. Louis didn't dump Backes, and brought in McDonald.
- Feeling Glucky?

Yes. But they didnt give them 5 milllion a year, for 5 years knowning the injury concerns.

No problems with getting vets. Just get the right ones that dont impact the future 5 years down the line.

Most of the teams that win cups generally do all of them well. Draft, trade, and sign free agents.
- prock

Sorry, all teams should build through the draft. What I meant was tanking and building through 1st overall picks only- which seems to be the only thing that would make Uggy happy(though he'd still find ways to complain).

fail. Game over.

Yes, its nonsense to play Kadri 9 minutes. You're so right. That'll team him not to every try that scoring nonsense again.
- systemtool

He'll get the ice he earns. Are you suggesting throwing him on the top line and giving him 20 minutes whether he earns it or not? He played well, created chances, scored a goal last night. He'll get his ice time.

Yes. But they didnt give them 5 milllion a year, for 5 years knowning the injury concerns.

No problems with getting vets. Just get the right ones that dont impact the future 5 years down the line.
- systemtool

I'm not the biggest fan of the length. But as it's been pointed out- an infection isn't an injury. Missing a lot of time because you're sick doesn't mean you're injury prone, it just means you had poop luck.

I don't like the signing because they haven't had a chance yet to see if his success was just a one-off.

JFJ didn't try to rebuild. He got rid of youth for older guys.

Burke added a lot of talent to the Leafs. To ignore that is to ignore reality.

This is a pointless discussion. I admit that the way you want it to go can work. Just like building through trades and signings can work. Teams build through both methods, and the methods wind up working at the same pace. Since the lockout it's been half half.
- Feeling Glucky?

Eight years of failure with the same goal in mind; make the playoffs now. No playoffs. No elite level prospects. No true direction.

Burke also pissed away a glorious opportunity to finally do it right. Ignore that?

Teams like the Leafs, who can't find talent without it falling into their lap, need to realize that they have to bite the bullet and hit the bottom of the barrel at least once or twice.

way to much money for a second line winger on any other team
- allen_gamble

? $4M to $5M a year IS 2nd line money.

This is why everyone thinks everyone is overpaid...

When he keeps on coughing up bad passess you are damn right I would bench him.. that goes for everyone on the team.. even if they score..
- DoctorNHL

So...why didnt Kessel play only 9 minutes? Why didnt Kulemin? There were players as bad or worse than Kadri. Anyways, there is another topic going on and this one has already been discussed. I made my case and it was the best case.

Trade Kadri or let him learn on the ice. No more of this yo-yo 10 minutes a game, marlies next week BS. He isnt 18 anymore.

Sorry, all teams should build through the draft. What I meant was tanking and building through 1st overall picks only- which seems to be the only thing that would make Uggy happy(though he'd still find ways to complain).
- Feeling Glucky?

I wasn't really disagreeing with. Just saying, if you look at cup winning teams, they generally have core players that were brought in using all three.

I don't know what the draft rules are now, but tanking doesn't even guarantee you a top 5 pick anymore anyway, right? You can finish last and end up drafting 14th, I think.

Most of the teams that win cups generally do all of them well. Draft, trade, and sign free agents.
- prock

Which is where the Leafs should be focusing on right now.

Draft.

How do you draft? You draft high and you draft often.

How do you draft high and often? You trade Lupul.

way to much money for a second line winger on any other team
- allen_gamble

Lupul isn't a second line winger on "any other team". If you think that, you're on drugs.

I'm not the biggest fan of the length. But as it's been pointed out- an infection isn't an injury. Missing a lot of time because you're sick doesn't mean you're injury prone, it just means you had poop luck.

I don't like the signing because they haven't had a chance yet to see if his success was just a one-off.
- Feeling Glucky?

Look, im not going to get into the semantics of the term "injury prone"

He has only played 70 games once in the past 5 seasons. You can call that the Billy Blanks or the P90X factor. I dont care. Its still bad enough that you trade a player like that before handing him long term contracts. Guys like him and Hemsky should never be a long term plan.

I agree 100% with your last comment. Which is why im wondering why you've spent all this time defending it. Guys, we can still be Leaf fans even if we disagree with some of the moves. Why is everyone making this so personal, like we're insulting their parents or kids?

Which is where the Leafs should be focusing on right now.

Draft.

How do you draft? You draft high and you draft often.

How do you draft high and often? You trade Lupul.
- Two_For_Truth

or, you sign and keep him. Even better.

I don't know what the draft rules are now, but tanking doesn't even guarantee you a top 5 pick anymore anyway, right? You can finish last and end up drafting 14th, I think.
- prock

Doesn't work like that.

The way it works now is every team that misses the playoffs is entered into the draft lottery.

All that means is that instead of moving up a maximum of four spots, you go straight to #1.

It doesn't change the fact that if you come in 30th, you're odds are 40% and if you come in 16th, you're odds are 0.5%.

Eight years of failure with the same goal in mind; make the playoffs now. No playoffs. No elite level prospects. No true direction.

Burke also pissed away a glorious opportunity to finally do it right. Ignore that?

Teams like the Leafs, who can't find talent without it falling into their lap, need to realize that they have to bite the bullet and hit the bottom of the barrel at least once or twice.
- Two_For_Truth

if only we'd drafted Faksa instead of that bum Rielly

I wasn't really disagreeing with. Just saying, if you look at cup winning teams, they generally have core players that were brought in using all three.

I don't know what the draft rules are now, but tanking doesn't even guarantee you a top 5 pick anymore anyway, right? You can finish last and end up drafting 14th, I think.
- prock

Whats with this top 5 bs? You can get franchise changing players anywhere in the first. So get more firsts and increase your chances. Sounds logical enough. What do the Leafs have to lose? Their 5th worst spot in the standings?

I wasn't really disagreeing with. Just saying, if you look at cup winning teams, they generally have core players that were brought in using all three.

I don't know what the draft rules are now, but tanking doesn't even guarantee you a top 5 pick anymore anyway, right? You can finish last and end up drafting 14th, I think.
- prock

yup- all teams that miss the playoffs are entered in the lottery.

or, you sign and keep him. Even better.
- prock

Explain why it's "even better".

Because the Leafs can fight for 8th instead of rebuild?

The only possible way that it's better is if Nonis trades him in a year for more than what he's worth right now. But it's pretty unlikely Nonis is signing guys to 5 year deals with NTC just to trade them in a year.

if only we'd drafted Faksa instead of that bum Rielly
- Feeling Glucky?

Just ignore everything else. Well done. As usual.

He'll get the ice he earns. Are you suggesting throwing him on the top line and giving him 20 minutes whether he earns it or not? He played well, created chances, scored a goal last night. He'll get his ice time.
- prock

Im suggesting he play about 13-15 minutes a night. Not 9-10. Otherwise trade him once and for all or just stick him on the Marlies again. He may get his ice time, but a poop team like the Habs is when he should be really allowed to learn on the go. Cut his ice time against Boston, Rangers, Pens...not the freaking Habs.

Whats with this top 5 bs? You can get franchise changing players anywhere in the first. So get more firsts and increase your chances. Sounds logical enough. What do the Leafs have to lose? Their 5th worst spot in the standings?
- systemtool

Trade away talent you know you have for talent you might be able to get.

They see Lupul in their long term plans, that's their professional opinion of him- a guy that brings enough to the team to be included in the long term plans. Whether you agree with that assessment or not is a different issue. But once you feel a guy falls into that category, you shouldn't trade him for anything less than a sure thing.

Just ignore everything else. Well done. As usual.
- Two_For_Truth

didn't see anything of value to respond to.


just curious, do you say this to yourself in a mirror every time you do it?

yup- all teams that miss the playoffs are entered in the lottery.
- Feeling Glucky?

With unbalanced odds of winning the lottery.

But if anything, it only improves the theory that the Leafs should be trading guys for 1st round picks. If the team they get the pick from misses the playoffs, the Leafs increase their odds of winning the lottery.

So...why didnt Kessel play only 9 minutes? Why didnt Kulemin? There were players as bad or worse than Kadri. Anyways, there is another topic going on and this one has already been discussed. I made my case and it was the best case.

Trade Kadri or let him learn on the ice. No more of this yo-yo 10 minutes a game, marlies next week BS. He isnt 18 anymore.
- systemtool

If he does what the coaches are asking he will.... lets not overreact after one game.

Kessler, Staal get more.. just to name two.. but the list is long.. would you like to review cap geek..
- DoctorNHL

kessler is first line center on half the teams in the league. staal is better than lupul