Lupul was a 10th overall and he was PPG last year. We got him through shrewd trading and smart asset management and smart cap management.
- twiztedmike

And?

He led us to a glorious 5th last finish, and got hurt AGAIN?

Oh so you pick the Oilers future over the Leafs future and go back on what you just said.

Good job.
- Two_For_Truth

If the team sucks and you draft high, so it goes.


Don't trade away talent just to draft high. Trade talent to acquire more talent.


But a mid 1st pick(if you're lucky) for a ppg guy... that's a huge risk.

Lupul was a 10th overall and he was PPG last year. We got him through shrewd trading and smart asset management and smart cap management.
- twiztedmike

You know what a shrewd trade is? Trading a 29 year old who had a career year for picks and prospects and then turning those picks and prospects into 18 to 20 year old pieces of the future that cost you less and give you more time.

You can't ice a young team without some good veteran mentors. Else they will be learning from the likes of Komisarek and Connolly
- twiztedmike

Agreed. So find some veterans and mentors that dont get hurt all the time and dont require 5.25 million over 5 year commitments.

Or keep Lupul for 5 million for 2-3 years. Not 5.

Just because there are needs, it doesnt mean those needs should be responded to with bad decisions.

If the team sucks and you draft high, so it goes.


Don't trade away talent just to draft high. Trade talent to acquire more talent.


But a mid 1st pick(if you're lucky) for a ppg guy... that's a huge risk.
- Feeling Glucky?

Don't trade away 22 year old talent but 29, almost 30 year old talent?

Yeah you do trade that away.

Lupul for Max Domi. You don't do that?

a guy like lupul who plays his heart out every night, who loves toronto and wants to be part of the team is EXACTLY the type of player you keep.
- Barx

to date Nonis has shown some guts that Burke didn't seem to have - in the move of Lombardi and the deserved demotion of Connolly.

we have to assume that he will do the sensible thing come the summer if CAP space is an issue - that is buyout Komisarek and move Liles.

if you combine those two salaries 4.5M CAP and 3.9M CAP - and assume that Connolly, MacArthur are not resigned that leaves plenty of CAP space - about 30M total hit before resigning Lupul. Yes they would need to resign a few players, Gunnarson, Bozak, etc... but realisitically how much are those guys going to take. More than enough room for a Getzlaf & Perry combo.

Taking Komisarek out the line-up you could argue would be a benefit - not a subtraction.
Liles role can more than adequately be filled by Jake Gardiner - at roughly half the money (at least for one year)

Agreed. So find some veterans and mentors that dont get hurt all the time and dont require 5.25 million over 5 year commitments.

Or keep Lupul for 5 million for 2-3 years. Not 5.

Just because there are needs, it doesnt mean those needs should be responded to with bad decisions.
- systemtool

Who said we have to keep him all 5 years??

If the team sucks and you draft high, so it goes.


Don't trade away talent just to draft high. Trade talent to acquire more talent.


But a mid 1st pick(if you're lucky) for a ppg guy... that's a huge risk.
- Feeling Glucky?

Lupul has only once been a ppg guy. Lets not pretend hes Zetterberg now.

323 points in 516 games is not a PPG.

They were missing picks for a while there after the Penner sheet and either the Pronger and Roloson deals. Gagner, Eberle, Paajarvi, Hall, Hopkins, Yakupov is pretty nice in the last 6 years.
- DTF69

It is nice. But that's a long time to be picking with no improvement.


Their future does look better than ours, no doubt. But that's not the only way to build a team.

Can't believe how many times these arguments have been rehashed. Both sides can lead to a cup when done properly(with a fairly even distribution between them).

There is no one way to build a team. Having enough pride in the organization to not tank isn't a bad thing.

Who said we have to keep him all 5 years??
- DoctorNHL

The same person who said we had to keep Komi if he didnt work out.

So after looking it up u can have up to 3 contracts at a time but only be able to trade up to 50% of any given contract so example u trade a guy with 3 yrs at 5 mill u can trade 2.5 mill of that contract or retain 2.5 mill works both ways

Don't trade away 22 year old talent but 29, almost 30 year old talent?

Yeah you do trade that away.

Lupul for Max Domi. You don't do that?
- Two_For_Truth

Guarantee me that Domi is still there at 20+.

Guarantee me he fulfills his potential.

Guarantee me the Leafs couldn't take him with their own pick.


You can't make any of those guarantees. That's the nature of the draft.

to date Nonis has shown some guts that Burke didn't seem to have - in the move of Lombardi and the deserved demotion of Connolly.

we have to assume that he will do the sensible thing come the summer if CAP space is an issue - that is buyout Komisarek and move Liles.

if you combine those two salaries 4.5M CAP and 3.9M CAP - and assume that Connolly, MacArthur are not resigned that leaves plenty of CAP space - about 30M total hit before resigning Lupul. Yes they would need to resign a few players, Gunnarson, Bozak, etc... but realisitically how much are those guys going to take. More than enough room for a Getzlaf & Perry combo.

Taking Komisarek out the line-up you could argue would be a benefit - not a subtraction.
Liles role can more than adequately be filled by Jake Gardiner - at roughly half the money (at least for one year)
- BorjeFan4Ever

Agreed on all points.. guys like Liles, MacArthur, & such can be moved out.. easily enough come trade deadline time.. as for Komi I think he will improve drastically under Carlyle's system.. with the forwards pitching in.. it will benefit him as much as it will the goalies.. so we will see by seasons end..

The same person who said we had to keep Komi if he didnt work out.
- systemtool

Huh ???

Their future does look better than ours, no doubt. But that's not the only way to build a team.
- Feeling Glucky?

In 45 years of failure, the Leafs have tried a lot of different ways. Time to stop screwing around and just do what gives them the lowest odds of failure.

It is nice. But that's a long time to be picking with no improvement.


Their future does look better than ours, no doubt. But that's not the only way to build a team.

Can't believe how many times these arguments have been rehashed. Both sides can lead to a cup when done properly(with a fairly even distribution between them).

There is no one way to build a team. Having enough pride in the organization to not tank isn't a bad thing.
- Feeling Glucky?

Nobody said there is only one way. The point is trying to do it the best and most logical way.

Look at the Blues now. Lord how envious I am of that team...

Agreed on all points.. guys like Liles, MacArthur, & such can be moved out.. easily enough come trade deadline time.. as for Komi I think he will improve drastically under Carlyle's system.. with the forwards pitching in.. it will benefit him as much as it will the goalies.. so we will see by seasons end..
- DoctorNHL

Forgot to mention Franson he should be the first to go..

Guarantee me that Domi is still there at 20+.

Guarantee me he fulfills his potential.

Guarantee me the Leafs couldn't take him with their own pick.


You can't make any of those guarantees. That's the nature of the draft.
- Feeling Glucky?

Guarantee me that Lupul scores 80 points a year for the next 5 years.

Guarantee me that Lupul doesn't get hurt.

Guarantee me the Leafs win a Cup with Lupul on their 1st line.

You can't make any of those guarantees. That's the nature of signing 30 year old, injury prone players who just had a career year to a five year deal.

Huh ???
- DoctorNHL

Exactly.

Lets not justify the Lupul contract with the idea of trading him.

Nobody said there is only one way. The point is trying to do it the best and most logical way.

Look at the Blues now. Lord how envious I am of that team...
- systemtool

The best way is to get good players in any way you can.. some of it is through draft, some through development.. and some through trades.. very little should be free agents...

I dont give a turd about open markets. I only care about our team. If someone wants to over pay him, let them. No skin off my nuts.

I also dont care about other salaries and how it compares. I care about this team and the direction its taking. They should have only kept Lupul if the playoffs were possible this year. Dont sign him until you know that. If the playoffs are not likely, trade him for future pieces.

A fragile team like the Leafs shouldnt be commiting 5 years to a guy who hasnt been healthy for his past 5 seasons and is only going to be older.
- systemtool

With this, you think the Leafs have a chance at any UFA's worth signing? Good luck with that! You can forget about guys like Getzlaf if you aren't willing to overpay.
I don't think Lupul was an overpayment, I think that's his actual value - Overpayment, in my mind, would have been anything over 5.5.
Also, I am not sure about you but I am not interested in a 3-5yr rebuild. I would like to see this team competing in the next 2 or 3 seasons and we will need guys like Lupul to do that.

This was a good Leaf signing

Guarantee me that Domi is still there at 20+.

Guarantee me he fulfills his potential.

Guarantee me the Leafs couldn't take him with their own pick.


You can't make any of those guarantees. That's the nature of the draft.
- Feeling Glucky?

So you're saying we should trade Rielly for another Lupul? Because thats what you're essentially saying. Guys like Lupul will lead to a cup just as much as patience and drafting.

Exactly.

Lets not justify the Lupul contract with the idea of trading him.
- systemtool

The justification is that he is a point per game player on a bad team.. more so than a PPG player on a good team... that is all that is needed...

In 45 years of failure, the Leafs have tried a lot of different ways. Time to stop screwing around and just do what gives them the lowest odds of failure.
- Two_For_Truth

where's the evidence that drafting high gives you the lowest odds of failure?


It guarantees the most time in the bottom, and that's about it.

The Leafs didn't try to rebuild the team for 45 years for the longest time they were run by cheap cheap owners who traded away all the talent whenever it asked for money.

Then they got taken over by management that felt they didn't need to spend the money on Gretzky because they were good enough.

And then came JFJ. Youth for age for years... leaving the cupboards dry.

Nobody's advocating that.

The same person who said we had to keep Komi if he didnt work out.
- systemtool

Are you sure Lupul is one of your favorite players?? LOL
You repeated that none stop and now comparing him to Komi.....