Question is, when will that start for this franchise? It always seems to be one step forward and then two steps back.

Is Nonis going to be the GM for long? Where does it put the rebuild if a new GM comes in next year or the year after that?
- bloatedmosquito

It should start right now. Nonis just took over with a 3 year extension. In three years, if he plays his cards right, he can rebuild this team properly. He already has a couple decent pieces. If each year, he adds at least one more legitimate piece, he could have a good foundation.

Listen to me carfully....Colton...Orr....Sucks....And Willl contribute nothing to the Maple Leafs this year, other than sticking up for his team mates. I don't care how bad Frattin has been LATELY, look at what he's done all season in the AHL, he's been just fine. The guy is not a superstar, or anything close, people need to stop thinking he is. He's a good 3rd line player, MAYBE 2nd line player, however on a bad team like the Leafs he's a little bit more, and certainly better than Colton Orr.
- blahman20

All season in the AHL? he was out till December. He was hot for 2 weeks, which is kinda predictable when coming back from an injury. He's been subpar for a month.

On the contrary, people ACTUALLY AT CAMP and who's job it is to judge such things say Orr earned a spot

Moreover, Frattin wasn't competing with Orr, he was competing with Komarov for 3rd line spot, and he didn't beat him out.

Frattin on 4th line doesn't do him any good. 20 mins a night for next 5-6 games with Marlies does. Then they call him back up if he performs well.

The only way the Leafs get Benn is they trade Gardner and a first that is NOT top five protected. Thats where the Leafs can score value : in giving other teams a shot at number one overall. If the Leafs are confident they won't finish badly then this is a good move. I don't think there is any chacne with Benn on the roster we miss the playoffs. But then again, I think our biggest priority should be adding a top pairing defensemen. Our D is really, really weak right now.
- Aquaman_2400

as much as I love Benn, think i'd rather have Jones or Mckinnon, or at least a shot at them.

To Toronto: Luongo
To Van: Franson, Bozak, 2nd

To Toronto: Benn
To Dallas: Gardiner, McArther, Conditional 2013 1st (lottery protected).

Did I just solve everyone's problems? I think I just may have.
- Big_Lightnin

Nope. Now we have Luongo's contract. No real issues with the guy himself, but that contract sucks ass.

As good as Benn is, I'd rather go after O'Reilly. He's a much more realistic target, much less valuable to his current team and could therefore be gotten for a more reasonable price

given them a chance before you proclain this.

after 10 games sure

come on the season hasn't even started and you're
being NEGATIVE!
- dmnted

This team drained me of any positivity juice a long time ago. From now on I'm negative until proven otherwise.

All season in the AHL? he was out till December. He was hot for 2 weeks, which is kinda predictable when coming back from an injury. He's been subpar for a month.

On the contrary, people ACTUALLY AT CAMP and who's job it is to judge such things say Orr earned a spot

Moreover, Frattin wasn't competing with Orr, he was competing with Komarov for 3rd line spot, and he didn't beat him out.

Frattin on 4th line doesn't do him any good. 20 mins a night for next 5-6 games with Marlies does. Then they call him back up if he performs well.
- Big_Lightnin

Frattin shouldn't be playing a lot anyways, on any good team he'd get 10-15min a game at most. Colton Orr stinks, and didn't earn anything, he got on the team because of reputation and his ability to fight, nothing more.

Whats Price's injury?
- Aquaman_2400

Groin strain. Apparently he's gonna play but this just means that they have an injured goalie with potential mobility issues. Good for me!

Hey, nobody said Grabovsky's competition was tougher than Kessel's, because it isn't and we all know that. If you look at the advanced stats for Dallas, teams were consistently matching their better players against Eriksson, Morrow, and Ribeiro. Sure, it's very possible he can continue his linear trajectory in points per season, but I wouldn't pay the price for an 80+ point forward when he a) isn't one now, and b) wasn't drafted as one.
- p_zub

Fair points about Benn, but its gonna cost a fortune to get him. What I meant about the quality of competition stat is that what constitutes "high competition" or "best players" may not actually be the best defensive players. For instance, if the Leafs play Mclement to shut down Crosby and play Kessel against Kennedy and Cook, Mclement will rate a higher quality of competition. This makes the stat almost worse than a plus minus because its just really disingenous.

Groin strain. Apparently he's gonna play but this just means that they have an injured goalie with potential mobility issues. Good for me!
- lumlums

It must be extremely minor or why risk playing your star player when groin injuries can turn chronic so fast?

Nope. Now we have Luongo's contract. No real issues with the guy himself, but that contract sucks ass.

As good as Benn is, I'd rather go after O'Reilly. He's a much more realistic target, much less valuable to his current team and could therefore be gotten for a more reasonable price
- lumlums

Dunno about that. And Benn's a 1st line center (or will be). O'Reilly's not.

Hey, nobody said Grabovsky's competition was tougher than Kessel's, because it isn't and we all know that. If you look at the advanced stats for Dallas, teams were consistently matching their better players against Eriksson, Morrow, and Ribeiro. Sure, it's very possible he can continue his linear trajectory in points per season, but I wouldn't pay the price for an 80+ point forward when he a) isn't one now, and b) wasn't drafted as one.
- p_zub

Just because Benn isn't a PPG guy now doesn't mean he isn't going to turn into one. He's right in line to be around 75-85 points during a full season, given his trajectory and the fact that he's just a really really good player.

Nope. Now we have Luongo's contract. No real issues with the guy himself, but that contract sucks ass.

As good as Benn is, I'd rather go after O'Reilly. He's a much more realistic target, much less valuable to his current team and could therefore be gotten for a more reasonable price
- lumlums

But Benn gives us a first line centre and Orielly is one of those guys who isn't likely to repeat his best season.

Benn is NOT coming here, stop. I bet he gets re-signed within a week.

It must be extremely minor or why risk playing your star player when groin injuries can turn chronic so fast?
- Aquaman_2400

This is the same team who hasn't resigned their future defensive star. (frank)ed if I know

It should start right now. Nonis just took over with a 3 year extension. In three years, if he plays his cards right, he can rebuild this team properly. He already has a couple decent pieces. If each year, he adds at least one more legitimate piece, he could have a good foundation.
- Two_For_Truth

It's easier to say then to actually do.
Is this franchise patient enough to withstand a true rebuild? Based on leaf recent history (20 yrs) the answer is no.
Everyone thought that Burkie was the guy to do it. And look what happened.

Benn is NOT coming here, stop. I bet he gets re-signed within a week.
- blahman20

this

It's easier to say then to actually do.
Is this franchise patient enough to withstand a true rebuild? Based on leaf recent history (20 yrs) the answer is no.
Everyone thought that Burkie was the guy to do it. And look what happened.
- bloatedmosquito

Fans are, Owners aren't. New ones either.

Benn is NOT coming here, stop. I bet he gets re-signed within a week.
- blahman20

Yeah it is so annoying when fans are excited about the upcoming season and they entertain different ideas on how to improve their team or add better players. Much better to debate the false logic of how Orr made it and Frattin didn't even though thats been covered 100 times here already today.

this
- wingz4life

well ya we know that (most of us) but 45 pages of people crying about Frattin not making the team is getting a little old

Dunno about that. And Benn's a 1st line center (or will be). O'Reilly's not.
- Big_Lightnin

O Reilly had a 55 point season as a 21 year old, that beats anything that we currently have. He seems more of a pass first guy with some ability to bang and crash a little, while being responsible defensively; throw that out there with Kessel and you're laughing.

It's easier to say then to actually do.
Is this franchise patient enough to withstand a true rebuild? Based on leaf recent history (20 yrs) the answer is no.
Everyone thought that Burkie was the guy to do it. And look what happened.
- bloatedmosquito

They are in the middle of a rebuild. There is no such thing as a "true rebuild" because it never works. Again, we have 6 top ten picks in the system. So tell me, how is that not a "proper rebuild" are players automatically better if you draft them yourself?

O Reilly had a 55 point season as a 21 year old, that beats anything that we currently have. He seems more of a pass first guy with some ability to bang and crash a little, while being responsible defensively; throw that out there with Kessel and you're laughing.
- lumlums

wings picked Sheahan over him ,

anyone think he stays in the KHL this entire season?

This team drained me of any positivity juice a long time ago. From now on I'm negative until proven otherwise.
- Mandelbaum

gotcha and i don't blame you.

but happy the game is back on and a new season is about to begin.

But Benn gives us a first line centre and Orielly is one of those guys who isn't likely to repeat his best season.
- Aquaman_2400

Its way too early to tell. What I do know is that O'Reilly scored 14 more at 21 than Benn did. They're similar size and build. And Put Someone like Eriksson on his wing and O'Reilly would work out quite nicely, just like Benn did.

Fair points about Benn, but its gonna cost a fortune to get him. What I meant about the quality of competition stat is that what constitutes "high competition" or "best players" may not actually be the best defensive players. For instance, if the Leafs play Mclement to shut down Crosby and play Kessel against Kennedy and Cook, Mclement will rate a higher quality of competition. This makes the stat almost worse than a plus minus because its just really disingenous.
- Aquaman_2400

Each stat on their own has little value, but its in combination with other stats that advanced stats really work. Basically, QoC is an aggregate score determining whether the five guys a player is playing against spends more time on the ice scoring goals, than having goals scored against them (thus being generally better defensively).