Gardiner - yes, Grabovsky - maybe, 1st - no.
- p_zub

Well if Grabbo is included than Joe Coborne better get his sh*t together cause he'll be the new 2nd line center. I've given up on him being a #1 center but it's a #2 or forget about it.

Hmm...another media personality picking the Leafs to finish 13th, I'm shocked.
- p_zub

San Jose in 12th stood out to me

here too, but -10 since yesterday evening so I got close to 2 inches back.

Mines on a bit of a grade so it's over 1 ft deep along the back!

sunday might be a stretch, but Sunday night a cold snap is rollinging in for a few days. Will be beauty then.
- Big_Lightnin

kinda personal?

What the hell can that guy do that McClemment can't do?
- Atomic Wedgie

That's not the issue. Steckel is more useful than Orr. McClement has nothing to do with it. Having multiple centers who can win face-offs is far more useful than Orr.

Have you actually seen Orr skate in camp? Serious question.

I haven't, but Eakins himself said he's improved a ton. As has Barb the skating chick.
- Big_Lightnin

Even if you assume Orr can skate now, he's still not as useful of Steckel or Frattin.

Orr going from a horrible skater to an average skater still doesn't make him useful.

Unlikely scenario, but if they are considering using Frattin as potential trade bait, putting him on 4th line would lower his potential "perceived" value. I would love to see him in the lineup but not on the 4th line.

I would keep Orr in the pressbox, but might play him vs teams like Boston.
- vermie22

Frattin wouldn't be on the 4th line. He would be on the 3rd line and Komarov would be on the 4th line, where he belongs.

I forgot also, great drafting too. But in answer to your question, doesn't Detroit, Chicago, Washington, Pittsburgh, Boston, LA, Philadeplhia, St. Louis, NYR & Van subscribe to all the principles I mentioned? Hmmmm I wonder why year after year after year after year, these teams are always regular contenders?
- GCHonda

Deep breath.

Now.

Dear Friend, you are not correct. Detroit is a class organization and has not drafted in the top end of the first round since, and I may be wrong, Lidstrom in the very early 90s. Or maybe that was Primeua. Either way, they don't draft high and they don't' have great success with first rounders. Chicago? They sucked for years and no team could plan to get Tavares and Kane, as well as fluke out and get a Keith late in round one. Washington and PGH were both horrible for years and are not really successfu franchises except for being ridiculously luckey. NYR always just throws money at veteran talent and is not a perrenial contender. Neither is LA. St louis actually is a pretty consistant playoff threat but so I'll give you that. Philly is not a good example, they bottomed out too. Now, Vancouver I'll give you but they were built by Burke and Nonis, so thats a given./

Except that if we were to say, attempt to aquire Jamie Benn, you have to assume they would want Grabovski in the deal.

Maybe Gardner, Grabovski and a first is enough to get it done. They might even include Robidas if we included Franson.
- Aquaman_2400

Maybe? If they honestly can't sign him Dallas would take that for sure

and would be a bad move by Leafs.

potential top pairing dman, good #2 center, and a likely lottery pick?

(frank) that.

That's not the issue. Steckel is more useful than Orr. McClement has nothing to do with it. Having multiple centers who can win face-offs is far more useful than Orr.
- Two_For_Truth

Perhaps the answer is neither Orr nor Steckel.

From what I've read, Kessel is going to double-shift anyways.

Hey, I wouldn't put Orr out there, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

Besides, you'll be happy to have Orr on the ice in a week or so, making sure the opposition doesn't take runs at Benn and Luongo.

Even if you assume Orr can skate now, he's still not as useful of Steckel or Frattin.

Orr going from a horrible skater to an average skater still doesn't make him useful.
- Two_For_Truth

I'm going to go with the crazy assumption that the cup winning coach knows more about what his team needs then you. . . Just Sayin. . .

Even if you assume Orr can skate now, he's still not as useful of Steckel or Frattin.

Orr going from a horrible skater to an average skater still doesn't make him useful.
- Two_For_Truth

Both Nonis and Carlyle said Frattin had a bad camp. Frattin has been average with the Marlies lately.

He hasn't earned a spot. Why give it to him. Komarov has earned a 3rd line spot. They seem to want to give Orr 4th line spot duties. Frattin will likely be up by Feb 1st.

I'm going to go with the crazy assumption that the cup winning coach knows more about what his team needs then you. . . Just Sayin. . .
- Cfser

Deep breath.

Now.

Dear Friend, you are not correct. Detroit is a class organization and has not drafted in the top end of the first round since, and I may be wrong, Lidstrom in the very early 90s. Or maybe that was Primeua. Either way, they don't draft high and they don't' have great success with first rounders. Chicago? They sucked for years and no team could plan to get Tavares and Kane, as well as fluke out and get a Keith late in round one. Washington and PGH were both horrible for years and are not really successfu franchises except for being ridiculously luckey. NYR always just throws money at veteran talent and is not a perrenial contender. Neither is LA. St louis actually is a pretty consistant playoff threat but so I'll give you that. Philly is not a good example, they bottomed out too. Now, Vancouver I'll give you but they were built by Burke and Nonis, so thats a given./
- Aquaman_2400

They actually are terrible at drafting:

http://www.hockeydb.com/i...aft/teams/dr00005492.html

Which makes their success all the more remarkable.

Perhaps the answer is neither Orr nor Steckel.

From what I've read, Kessel is going to double-shift anyways.

Hey, I wouldn't put Orr out there, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

Besides, you'll be happy to have Orr on the ice in a week or so, making sure the opposition doesn't take runs at Benn and Luongo.
- Atomic Wedgie

The big picture answer is neither but if they have to pick, which they did, the answer is Steckel. At least he can win face-offs. Orr plays 4 minutes and sits for 5 minutes. At best.

Kessel double-shifting? That's going to last a month.

I'm going to go with the crazy assumption that the cup winning coach knows more about what his team needs then you. . . Just Sayin. . .
- Cfser

Yes, Colton Orr equals wins!

- Two_For_Truth

Steckel?

You've got a man crush on Steckel?

C'mon, Uggie, I know you have a deeply ingrained iconoclast persona, but Steckel?

What the hell can that guy do that McClemment can't do?

And as for Orr, Eakins sat him down and told him how to re-invent himself. You're going to see a totally different Orr.

Of course, you're going to see him in the press box after Saturday.

As per my earlier post: silver lining is he can eat popcorn for 44 games, and won't complain at all.
- Atomic Wedgie

Orr on the bench probably gives Komarov and Brown a few extra inches and allows them to really stir the poop. I'm expecting the Leafs to really make a physical mark ....especially against the Habs. Prust and Brown will dance.

The big picture answer is neither but if they have to pick, which they did, the answer is Steckel. At least he can win face-offs. Orr plays 4 minutes and sits for 5 minutes. At best.

Kessel double-shifting? That's going to last a month.
- Two_For_Truth

If you have a better idea how to get him into game shape, I'm all ears.

Both Nonis and Carlyle said Frattin had a bad camp. Frattin has been average with the Marlies lately.

He hasn't earned a spot. Why give it to him. Komarov has earned a 3rd line spot. They seem to want to give Orr 4th line spot duties. Frattin will likely be up by Feb 1st.
- Big_Lightnin

Because he can actually play in the NHL. He's not some 4th line scrub. He's a guy who can actually contribute both offensively and defensively.

How many players have a "great" camp and then fall flat on their face? They have to consider more than a one week camp.

Yes, Colton Orr equals wins!
- Two_For_Truth

do you want them to win, or lose?


I never know.

Yes, Colton Orr equals wins!
- Two_For_Truth

The most important thing that came out of Leafs camp was the fact that Tim Connolly was told to hit the road

The most important thing that came out of Leafs camp was the fact that Tim Connolly was told to hit the road
- Mandelbaum

And Bozak was handed the #1 centre position.

One step forward, two steps back.

If you have a better idea how to get him into game shape, I'm all ears.
- Atomic Wedgie

If he's out of shape, double-shifting is an excellent way for him to get injured.

Much more logical to just roll four lines.

Hey Buddies

her tits are way to far apart
- Sammich

So , just to be clear, a bunch of dudes are sitting around the internet in the middle of the day critisizing a super hot chick because she could potentially get fat and her tits are too far apart? That is sad for so many reasons. NOt the least of which is that it has nothing to do with hockey.