They shipped Kessel to the first dumbass team that would overpay for him, then used that to draft Seguin 2nd overall and acquire Horton. Add to that masterful 2nd round drafting and you have a winner.
- Two_For_Truth

Yeah...Seguin is the reason the Bruins won the Cup.

Luongo has a couple good years left in him at best. Under the pressure of the Toronto market, it could be less. Additionally, if you used your head, you would know the Leafs are still a crappy team which means 8th place and a 1st round exit. If Luongo could get bounced in the 1st round with a 1st placed team, he's going to get murdered in Toronto.

Short. Term. Fix. Deal with it.



Tanking doesn't always work but getting a 30-something year old just to make 8th place works?

Sure thing.
- Two_For_Truth

Explain Cujo in Edmonton and Toronto and then with a superior Red Wings team? Again, Devils advocate.

Everybody keeps saying this, but I have my doubts.

I think the guy is so stubborn, he'll stick to his plan (yeah, assuming he has one). I don't think the guy will change his course to save his ass.
- Atomic Wedgie

Burke has said, multiple times, he does not want to lose his job with the Leafs. He wants to stay here for a really long time. That means doing whatever he has to do to stick around.

You probably should stop before it does get out of hand.

Gagner has had five straight 40+ point seasons. Kulemin has had one in his whole career. Might also be worth remembering that Gagner is three years younger. And plays center. And has been playing on one of the few teams even worse than the Leafs.

Pretty easy to see unless of course you're wearing a blue and white apparatus which is impeding your vision.
- Two_For_Truth

Inline with the discussion, the trade proposed (Kulemin + Franson for Gagner) and then use Ganger as out #1 center is You cant think thats a good deal for TO.

Gagner is a fine #2 Center, but does Toronto really need more of them? Especially at the Cost of a decent 2/3 liner with a decent contract. Gagner is a RFA in 1 year also.

Kulemin has a Career .50 ppg and Gagner .60
Kulemin has scored 30 goals, Gagner has never broken 20.

Explain Cujo in Edmonton and Toronto and then with a superior Red Wings team? Again, Devils advocate.
- mykokes

Explain how many Cups Curtis Joseph won.

Explain Cujo in Edmonton and Toronto and then with a superior Red Wings team? Again, Devils advocate.
- mykokes

I love how he thinks he can see the future

Tanking doesn't always work but getting a 30-something year old just to make 8th place works?

Sure thing.
- Two_For_Truth

It did for the Kings and Simon Gagne.

I never said Burke hasnt done some positives. Im just saying he hasnt done enough to feel his job is secure long term. Heading in the right direction isnt enough when it hasnt resulting in the standings, especially when it comes to suits who make these decisions and dont understand the games as well as those who follow it closely.

I think this one is in the books. Were repeating the same points over and over. I disagree with you on the security of his job, not the positives he has done. Until he is signed long term, he isnt a lock to be here in a 2 years.

Cheers. Take the loss like a man.
- systemtool

What do you know about Suits?

The true suits making these decisions put very little emphasis on the W/L columns....all they care about is their bottom line (profits). And correct me if I'm wrong...that hasn't been an issue in Toronto for a VERY long time.

But you're right...we should just agree to disagree....no matter how wrong you are.

Explain how many Cups Curtis Joseph won.
- Two_For_Truth

Good point, but he never took a superior Red Wings team to the conference final like he did the leafs twice......

*I do not want to trade for Luongo, I want to go with what we have. 2013 is going to be a great draft year. If anything, allowing scrivens and reimer to start might pump up their trade value, or, we may figure out exactly what we have in them. I'm just saying the argument that if Luongo couldn't even help the Canucks win, that he'd automatically get murdered in Toronto is a bit flawed.

To me Luongo's always been a goalie who does better with the more shots he faces. Same as Cujo

Yeah...Seguin is the reason the Bruins won the Cup.
- Pen15

As I recall, the Bruins flamed out pretty spectacularly in the playoffs the year immediately after the Kessel trade. Could've used a 30 goal scorer then.

And that will be the case when all five of those are supposedly putting up 100 points per year?

If Bobby Orr Justin Schultz alone is half as good as suggested (100 points per year and Norris trophies lining his cabinet), then he'll eat up about $9-10 million alone.

Then you have Hall, Eberle, and RNH who will be competing in three way ties for the Hart every year. There's another 24 mil.

And Yakupov, who will be the first to bolt, will demand the same, even if he's not on the same level (hint: he won't be).
- Leeman4Gilmour

And the cap could be over 70 million by then.

Inline with the discussion, the trade proposed (Kulemin + Franson for Gagner) and then use Ganger as out #1 center is You cant think thats a good deal for TO.

Gagner is a fine #2 Center, but does Toronto really need more of them? Especially at the Cost of a decent 2/3 liner with a decent contract. Gagner is a RFA in 1 year also.

Kulemin has a Career .50 ppg and Gagner .60
Kulemin has scored 30 goals, Gagner has never broken 20.
- senstroll

Just looking at those two players. Whether it's a good deal for the Leafs is another story. Gagner is a 2nd line center and the Leafs already have Grabovski for that. So that deal doesn't exactly work for the Leafs because they aren't getting what they really need.

Yeah...Seguin is the reason the Bruins won the Cup.
- Pen15

Remember his 4pts game (2 goals) against Tampa in game #2?

Burke has said, multiple times, he does not want to lose his job with the Leafs. He wants to stay here for a really long time. That means doing whatever he has to do to stick around.
- Two_For_Truth

And do you think being GM of the Leafs is the only position that will be available to him now and in the long term?

Remember his 4pts game (2 goals) against Tampa in game #6?
- Pecafan Fan

You're right...that took them over the top.

How dumb of me.

Explain how many Cups Curtis Joseph won.
- Two_For_Truth

What is the point here?

That Curtis Joseph wasn't a phenomenal goaltender?

One team of 30 wins the cup each year. One team. Winning one is not a prerequisite for greatness.

Burke has said, multiple times, he does not want to lose his job with the Leafs. He wants to stay here for a really long time. That means doing whatever he has to do to stick around.
- Two_For_Truth

Wow, what a revelation.

You really should be a reporter on 60 minutes.

A guy said he loves his job???

He said that to the media???

I guess he really would have drafted Rielly 1st if he had the pick.

Burke has said, multiple times, he does not want to lose his job with the Leafs. He wants to stay here for a really long time. That means doing whatever he has to do to stick around.
- Two_For_Truth

No...that means he loves his job and working for the Leafs.
That's all it means.

It did for the Kings and Simon Gagne.
- Atomic Wedgie

Irrefutable proof.

And the cap could be over 70 million by then.
- Fakepartofme

Okay, so you have less than 30 million to fill 16 more roster spots, keeping in mind that when the cap inflates, so do player salaries. Third liners cost you 2-3 million these days.

Good luck.

Wow, what a revelation.

You really should be a reporter on 60 minutes.

A guy said he loves his job???

He said that to the media???

I guess he really would have drafted Rielly 1st if he had the pick.
- Atomic Wedgie

You're right...that took them over the top.

How dumb of me.
- Pen15

It was game #2, I made a mistake.

Just looking at those two players. Whether it's a good deal for the Leafs is another story. Gagner is a 2nd line center and the Leafs already have Grabovski for that. So that deal doesn't exactly work for the Leafs because they aren't getting what they really need.
- Two_For_Truth

agreed..so for the Leafs Purposes, Kulemin > Gagner

Have you seen how he was treated by the Vancouver media? Not even Montreal could treat a goalie like that...
- Pecafan Fan

The Toronto market argument is badly overstated.

As I recall, the Bruins flamed out pretty spectacularly in the playoffs the year immediately after the Kessel trade. Could've used a 30 goal scorer then.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Is Seguin even a 30 goal scorer yet?

Bc Phil is flirting with becoming a 40 goal scorer...