who the hell knows?

i take anything i read in the media with a grain of salt.

if you are asking me what i believe its this:

i believe the "bad feelings" story is a poop story generated by the media and has been over exaggerated big time.

thats all i am trying to say here.
- Dozzer

I find that extremely hard to believe. How could they not have bad feelings over it? Agreed to months ago, negotiating off that piece, NHL trying to make the rules more lax so teams can hide hhr? You don't think they wouldn't take offense to that? You don't think that causes issues? How do you trust someone who is trying to loosen the rules on hiding the revenue you are working on splitting?

pretending to know why anything is happening is assumptive and arrogant burn.

nobody knows why they arent meeting, it could be for a variety of reasons.. but it seems you are buying into this the owners are sheisty (and they are, dont get me wrong) ejaculation of a news story
- Dozzer

Pretending?? Who? They ought right said it.

Agreed, that's why I don't think it will happen. I believe the rumor indicated that they showed interest and the Leafs said "no thanks"
- mikeinbuffalo

for sure.

i mean realistically the leafs dont need anyone in the bottom 6 for years to come, we have a ton of bottom 6 talent, and its young.

we need to add top 6 talent, hell, we have the money too.

2 goalies for 2.5 mil.
after this season we lose half our roster, and a few big ones too (connolly, lombardi).

i say we use our bottom 6 guys from marlies, etc.
and we use our $ to add getzlaf.

lupul-getzlaf-kessel
JVR-grabovski-kadri
frattin-bozak-kulemin
brown-mcclemment-komarov

thats a playoff team if the D and G hold up!

Yanks, Sox, Angels, Dodgers, Rangers and Phillies are still the big dollar teams and the fav's to win it year over year. RSox took a year off to rebuild. The stats would still show some (alot) of significance between payroll and wins.

Baseball, soccer, bball certainly. Football has a really nice revenue sharing system stemmming from its ridiculous tv deals ....that keeps the balance in the nfl. Hockey, and its cap, has to be the best balanced system in pro sports considering its lack of big dollar tv deals and reliance on gate receipts and the big local tv deals of a few teams. They have to do it to survive (as a 30 team league anyway).
- The Law

Rays, A's, Orioles, Reds, Nats, Braves, etc.

Every year, low revenue teams are among top finishers in the league. Just as many of these teams would be in play-offs if they had same structure as NHL.

http://www.salaryadjusted.com/mlb

Show me where either side has said that progress has slowed due to that minor change...

Taking your personal bias and speculation and trying to spin it as fact does not make it fact.
- Pen15

Mirror.

Yanks, Sox, Angels, Dodgers, Rangers and Phillies are still the big dollar teams and the fav's to win it year over year. RSox took a year off to rebuild. The stats would still show some (alot) of significance between payroll and wins.

Baseball, soccer, bball certainly. Football has a really nice revenue sharing system stemmming from its ridiculous tv deals ....that keeps the balance in the nfl. Hockey, and its cap, has to be the best balanced system in pro sports considering its lack of big dollar tv deals and reliance on gate receipts and the big local tv deals of a few teams. They have to do it to survive (as a 30 team league anyway).
- The Law

No, don't respond.. He has his mind made up and he is entitled to his opinion. He just will not change mine..No worries.

I find that extremely hard to believe. How could they not have bad feelings over it? Agreed to months ago, negotiating off that piece, NHL trying to make the rules more lax so teams can hide hhr? You don't think they wouldn't take offense to that? You don't think that causes issues? How do you trust someone who is trying to loosen the rules on hiding the revenue you are working on splitting?
- burn

I don't think Fehr gets paid to have 'bad feelings'...I also think 'trust' has very little to do with it.

Both these things as dozzer pointed out are fabrications by the media which you're clearly eating up...

These negotiations are heartless, cold, and tactical processes that have nothing to do with 'feelings' and 'trust'

You guys are feisty this morning.


*Grabs more popcorn*

Mirror.
- burn

Show me what I've tried to spin as fact during this conversation?

I'll wait.

Amount of revenue doesn't matter. Point is that if you know what your doing (Matt Damon apparently revolutionized everything), a good GM can do well without money in a cap-less world.
- Canada Cup

you cant make this comparison for a hundred reasons but here`s a few

A: there is no competing league with baseball in the world whereas there is with hockey

B: hockey: 23 man roster / baseball: 25man roster .. lowest payroll in hockey: 48million (and many are only that high due to the cap floor) / in baseball 55million

C: number of home games to generate revenue: hockey: 41 / baseball: 81

the structure used in baseball would not work in hockey.. the best players would flock to the money spending teams or even worse, another league.

I don't think Fehr gets paid to have 'bad feelings'...I also think 'trust' has very little to do with it.

Both these things as dozzer pointed out are fabrications by the media which you're clearly eating up...

These negotiations are heartless, cold, and tactical processes that have nothing to do with 'feelings' and 'trust'
- Pen15

He gets paid to maximize return for his members. He made a mistake in assuming that it was better to let deadline slide as negotiations were proceeding well. He is in process of correcting t hat mistake by getting new mandate.

Rays, A's, Orioles, Reds, Nats, Braves, etc.

Every year, low revenue teams are among top finishers in the league. Just as many of these teams would be in play-offs if they had same structure as NHL.

http://www.salaryadjusted.com/mlb
- Canada Cup

There are always exceptions to a general rule ..I would never suggest otherwise. Compare the records of the top 5 spending with the bottom 5 spending over the past 5 years. There's a trend.

Not at all. I can give you multiple scenarios where it would make sense to change the definition of HRR in order to compensate for something that was given up (negotiated) in a previous conversation.

Making the assumption that it's only done to win is very narrow view imo.
- Pen15

No. The entire 3+ months have all been based on the hhr def agreed to way back when. Changing it now throws all that out the window.

I find that extremely hard to believe. How could they not have bad feelings over it? Agreed to months ago, negotiating off that piece, NHL trying to make the rules more lax so teams can hide hhr? You don't think they wouldn't take offense to that? You don't think that causes issues? How do you trust someone who is trying to loosen the rules on hiding the revenue you are working on splitting?
- burn

its called bargaining burn

until a deal is signed EVERYTHING is up for debate and change.

its up to the NHLPA to so its own due diligence to make sure they are satisfied with everything before signing it.. not up to the NHL to hold their hand and point out every little tweak.. thats what Fehr is for

Pretending?? Who? They ought right said it.
- burn

who did?

find me an actual quote from a union rep or player cause i havent seen one.

You guys are feisty this morning.


*Grabs more popcorn*
- Leafland

GFY. Ease up on butter on popcorn please. Still recovery from holidays.

I don't think Fehr gets paid to have 'bad feelings'...I also think 'trust' has very little to do with it.

Both these things as dozzer pointed out are fabrications by the media which you're clearly eating up...

These negotiations are heartless, cold, and tactical processes that have nothing to do with 'feelings' and 'trust'
- Pen15

Here's another mirror for you.

Right, made up by the media.... Just like they met last night, but they didn't. Media fabrication.

No. The entire 3+ months have all been based on the hhr def agreed to way back when. Changing it now throws all that out the window.
- burn

Again....no signed deal, anything is fair game. The NHL is well within their right to change the definition of HRR.

Their motives can be vast and they're certainly unknown, but making the assumption that it has derailed negotiations is just asinine.

Here's another mirror for you.

Right, made up by the media.... Just like they met last night, but they didn't. Media fabrication.
- burn

That is fact. Both Fehr and Bettman have gone on record (multiple times) and stated that TRUST has nothing to do with this kind of process...

It's not something spoonfed by the media.

I don't think Fehr gets paid to have 'bad feelings'...I also think 'trust' has very little to do with it.

Both these things as dozzer pointed out are fabrications by the media which you're clearly eating up...

These negotiations are heartless, cold, and tactical processes that have nothing to do with 'feelings' and 'trust'
- Pen15

not to mention the owners are within their right to change whatever they please til a deal is signed.. same with the union for that matter.

this isnt a first date, there is no inappropriate, its bargaining.

anyone who feels jilted or are upset needs to go and put their big boy pants on.

Show me what I've tried to spin as fact during this conversation?

I'll wait.
- Pen15

Right back at ya.

Again....no signed deal, anything is fair game. The NHL is well within their right to change the definition of HRR.

Their motives can be vast and they're certainly unknown, but making the assumption that it has derailed negotiations is just asinine.
- Pen15

Wouldn't it derail negotiations on the current deal, when it hasn't been touched in 2 month's? Now instead of focusing on the current offer, they need to redefine HRR.

so frusterated with the whole CBA thing - ive lost my edge on it, so il just read what u guys are saying and il get up to date!

There are always exceptions to a general rule ..I would never suggest otherwise. Compare the records of the top 5 spending with the bottom 5 spending over the past 5 years. There's a trend.
- The Law

Every year there are a bunch of low revenue teams in top half of standings. It's certainly true that high revenue teams usually do well (will be nice to see Red Sox and Yankees be an exception to this rule this year).

My point is simply that there are other ways to get parity than by relying on current cap/floor used in NHL. Only thing this system guarantees is lock outs.

Right back at ya.
- burn

Glad you 2 aren't trying to get this deal done..