One time 30 goal scorer....ONE TIME.
Had the leafs not had his 30 goals that one season.....how much worse would they have been?
I like Kuli but in the grand scheme of things...with or without him....what change would it hace had?
- Fakepartofme

Jesus, Sh!t, Frank. What the Frank is your problem. Frank, what's the point of Mike Brown, we'd be the same. Grabbo? Gunnarson? Frattin? Reilly? Kessel?

Frank get rid of everyone. Just sign motherlicking Eberle. Seems like a plausible way for us to proceed. Just 12 franking Eberle's.

What's the franking point of us having a team. Frank what's the point of us being on this site.

Franking most negative frank i've ever witnessed. Why even follow this sh!tty team. Frank off to Edmonton.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

One final popint. Frank off.

off the top of my head, they had Blake, Robitaille.
It doesn't matter who replaced him....the point is the team and league promoted them as a selling point.
Both the teams and players are equally important in selling tickets...I'm a Leaf fan...I will watch the team no matter what.....I dont know why....but I will. However the league isn't selling to me the Leafs and the leafs are not selling to me "hockey"...they are selling to me the players who suit up for the team.
Come see so and so on the leafs.
That's all I'm saying.
- Fakepartofme

You keep almost getting it....

off the top of my head, they had Blake, Robitaille.
It doesn't matter who replaced him....the point is the team and league promoted them as a selling point.
Both the teams and players are equally important in selling tickets...I'm a Leaf fan...I will watch the team no matter what.....I dont know why....but I will. However the league isn't selling to me the Leafs and the leafs are not selling to me "hockey"...they are selling to me the players who suit up for the team.
Come see so and so on the leafs.
That's all I'm saying.
- Fakepartofme

So, that is why the players should make more money than the owners.. It is the owners job to promote his players / hockey cards, to the best of his ability. They can be traded and moved at will, for the most part. This does not give them the balls to demand more money, and certainly not more than the owners of the team.

Grigorenko will save the Sabres franchise.

And the NHL really.

Id pay to watch him skate the circles.
- robin_steele264

He skates circles? He glides like a God coming from the sky on wings of air...and does it the whole game.

the new building was in the works since 1999

crosby became the pens property in 2005

not sure how you can make this argument that the rink was because of crosby. it most certainly wasnt.
- Dozzer

It is easier to make that argument if you present the facts properly.

Mario starts looking for funding in 1999.
Crosby becomes Pens property in 2005.
Financing for arena arranged in 2007.
Value of Pens increases by 163%.

It would be crazy to say Crosby was only factor but he certainly contributed.

He skates circles? He glides like a God coming from the sky on wings of air...and does it the whole game.
- AdamFrench

The Holy Bumhole Ripper.

I didn't say the rink was built cause of Crosby. The rink is filled up cause of Crosby.
- faceto27

a bit extreme to lay all the gold at his feet.

location is a huge one.. the fact is funded by casinos made it a very luxurious place to go and see a game.

ok listen.. i never once said crosby wasnt a draw. he is. my point is people would still go. you can say it was crosby all you want but I say its because he made the penguins competitive again. if the pens didnt start winning and were still stuck in their old arena you would have exactly what NY has with tavares and the islanders

really? a chicken mcnugget used to be supplied by Cuddy Farms. by far and away the highest tier of poultry products out there.. the business partnership fell through and now mcdonalds sources them elsewhere

do people still buy mcnuggets?

sure they do.
- Dozzer

There is cheap Remy martine and then there is Louis ........ big difference in price. Why?? The product is better. Not the marketing.

Grigorenko will save the Sabres franchise.

And the NHL really.

Id pay to watch him skate the circles.
- robin_steele264

Skate circles...like Kovalev?

thats called a marketing tool.. not the product itself.

the product is the game. the players are great marketing tools but they arent the be all end all.
- Dozzer

And I agree completely.
I said months ago, they could wipe out the season, dismantle the NHLPA and restart with scrubs or AHL'ers and NHL'ers that crossed the line...within a couple of years new talent would emerge.
But growing the fan base, the NHL doesn't hockey as the product, they sell the player as the product.
I complete agree the NHL could exist with all new players (not as it does now, but in some form)....I'm just saying even then, the PR machine would fine someone to hitch the game of hockey to, to sell to new fans.

Ok I gotta get back to work.
Good discussion though...no name calling or foolishness..
Thanks gents!

It is easier to make that argument if you present the facts properly.

Mario starts looking for funding in 1999.
Crosby becomes Pens property in 2005.
Financing for arena arranged in 2007.
Value of Pens increases by 163%.

It would be crazy to say Crosby was only factor but he certainly contributed.
- Canada Cup

except you are leaving out the fact that it took that long to get the financing in place because the city had to okay a casino being built as well.

had very little to do with crosby.

Since 1993 average pay has gone up 10 fold?


Ok Scooby.
- robin_steele264

I wasn't taking the 10 fold number seriously, as the average NHL salary hasn't gone up 10 fold either.

by this argument you must still be a fan of guys like antropov and poni and stajan
- Dozzer

Can we have Ian White back please

And I agree completely.
I said months ago, they could wipe out the season, dismantle the NHLPA and restart with scrubs or AHL'ers and NHL'ers that crossed the line...within a couple of years new talent would emerge.
But growing the fan base, the NHL doesn't hockey as the product, they sell the player as the product.
I complete agree the NHL could exist with all new players (not as it does now, but in some form)....I'm just saying even then, the PR machine would fine someone to hitch the game of hockey to, to sell to new fans.

Ok I gotta get back to work.
Good discussion though...no name calling or foolishness..
Thanks gents!
- Fakepartofme

You are close, but still wrong.

a bit extreme to lay all the gold at his feet.

location is a huge one.. the fact is funded by casinos made it a very luxurious place to go and see a game.

ok listen.. i never once said crosby wasnt a draw. he is. my point is people would still go. you can say it was crosby all you want but I say its because he made the penguins competitive again. if the pens didnt start winning and were still stuck in their old arena you would have exactly what NY has with tavares and the islanders
- Dozzer

when the Penguins come to town, the scalpers make a killing. Its because the public is buying the tickets to see Crosby and the other stars. Not to see the Penguin logo

There is cheap Remy martine and then there is Louis ........ big difference in price. Why?? The product is better. Not the marketing.
- faceto27

listen. i simply flat out disagree that the players are the entire product. they arent.

i dont even consider them to be the product, the game they play is, but not them.

I wasn't taking the 10 fold number seriously, as the average NHL salary hasn't gone up 10 fold either.
- Scooby_Doo

Yes it has.

230K when Bettman took over.

2.4 mill now.

when the Penguins come to town, the scalpers make a killing. Its because the public is buying the tickets to see Crosby and the other stars. Not to see the Penguin logo
- faceto27

Leafs also have the same effect.

Jesus, Sh!t, Frank. What the Frank is your problem. Frank, what's the point of Mike Brown, we'd be the same. Grabbo? Gunnarson? Frattin? Reilly? Kessel?

Frank get rid of everyone. Just sign motherlicking Eberle. Seems like a plausible way for us to proceed. Just 12 franking Eberle's.

What's the franking point of us having a team. Frank what's the point of us being on this site.

Franking most negative frank i've ever witnessed. Why even follow this sh!tty team. Frank off to Edmonton.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

One final popint. Frank off.


- walshyleafsfan1

Hey just because my poopty Titans beat your Rockets last night doesnt mean you gotta get ur girdle in a knot

when the Penguins come to town, the scalpers make a killing. Its because the public is buying the tickets to see Crosby and the other stars. Not to see the Penguin logo
- faceto27

holy poop.. why are all of your arguments so black and white?

this or that?

i have already said that players like crosby help with marketing the game.. i never once denied it... not once.

what i am saying is he isnt as crucial part to the survival of the game that you guys are making him out to be

Yes it has.

230K when Bettman took over.

2.4 mill now.
- robin_steele264

Brandon Prust makes $2,500,000 per season FFS!!!

So, that is why the players should make more money than the owners.. It is the owners job to promote his players / hockey cards, to the best of his ability. They can be traded and moved at will, for the most part. This does not give them the balls to demand more money, and certainly not more than the owners of the team.
- bixll

NO NO NO!!!
I'm not saying that all. This is unrelated to this stupid lockout.
The only thing I've ever backed the players on and fully believe they should never agree to was a salary cut.

But no, this is unrelated to who should get a bigger piece of this stupid pie.

listen. i simply flat out disagree that the players are the entire product. they arent.

i dont even consider them to be the product, the game they play is, but not them.
- Dozzer

Yup


They are hockey players.


they arent Hockey.

I wasn't taking the 10 fold number seriously, as the average NHL salary hasn't gone up 10 fold either.
- Scooby_Doo

uh yes it has scoob

You are close, but still wrong.
- robin_steele264

Just Eberle.