Dozzer, I subscribe to Leafs TV therefore I watch alot of Marlies games. They are at about 50% the talent level of the NHL. I watch them with a grain of salt.
- faceto27

i think their talent level would seem more to you if they were playing at the ACC and had any broadcaster not named leafstv doing the games.

i just think you underestimate to attachment people have to the brand.

with the same dollars put into the games when televised and wearing the beloved brand of the leafs.. i would bet that very same marlies squad would pack the ACC game in and game out.

not everyone cares about the players... most people actually care about the brand.

He was replaced with other house hold names.
It's not difficult to follow.
- Fakepartofme

There ya go.

yeah, thats where the argument falls apart.
- Dozzer

How did Pittsburg do when Lemieux was there? How did they do when he was gone? How are they doing with Crosby??

Give me a break.

i think their talent level would seem more to you if they were playing at the ACC and had any broadcaster not named leafstv doing the games.

i just think you underestimate to attachment people have to the brand.

with the same dollars put into the games when televised and wearing the beloved brand of the leafs.. i would bet that very same marlies squad would pack the ACC game in and game out.

not everyone cares about the players... most people actually care about the brand.
- Dozzer

A lot of people that call themselves fans, can't name 5 players on any team.

He was replaced with other house hold names.
It's not difficult to follow.
- Fakepartofme

Your fundamental argument is predicated on the greatest player to ever lace them up?

In reality...how many of the 750 players today are the primary reason for keeping their team afloat?

How did Pittsburg do when Lemieux was there? How did they do when he was gone? How are they doing with Crosby??

Give me a break.
- faceto27

oh right.. and when they were struggling they didnt have this guy named jagr right?

the value of the player is grossly over-estimated by some.

How did Pittsburg do when Lemieux was there? How did they do when he was gone? How are they doing with Crosby??

Give me a break.
- faceto27

So what you're saying is, when they were winning, people cared and when they sucked, people stopped caring?

however.. you bring the marlies to the ACC and call them the leafs and have them wear leafs jerseys and do the same with Hamilton with Montreal jerseys.. and call it the leafs vs the habs.....

the ACC would be packed.
- Dozzer

Which is why I said in certain markets that would work for a short while...but even the Leafs wouldn't be selling "hey come see the Leafs"...it would be hey come see this player or that player for the leafs or whatever player is coming to town on the opposing team.
The point is, the team and the league aren't promoting the sport upfront...they are promoting the players....the product. The sport gets promoted at the NHL level on the backs of the players.

Last time the Bulldogs played at the Bell Center, over 19 000 tickets were sold.
- Pecafan Fan

Scalpers were getting a cool $20 for lower bowl tickets. Yup, pretty much the same as the leafs.

Scalpers were getting a cool $20 for lower bowl tickets. Yup, pretty much the same as the leafs.
- Canada Cup

A lot of people that call themselves fans, can't name 5 players on any team.
- bixll

and thats fine! not everyone has to know the roster.. they love the brand.. want to see the brand win.. could care less about the individual players.

and thats fine! not everyone has to know the roster.. they love the brand.. want to see the brand win.. could care less about the individual players.
- Dozzer

Eaxctly, almost every house wife that calls herself a fan. I know my Mother in law loves hocakey, but can't name 12 players in the league.

oh right.. and when they were struggling they didnt have this guy named jagr right?

the value of the player is grossly over-estimated by some.
- Dozzer

The point is that the value of the NHL is that it is a league with the best players in the world. The Leafs are a not very good team in a legue of the best players. There is no way that the corporate suits that fill the platinums are going to shell out top dollars for a tier two league.

So what you're saying is, when they were winning, people cared and when they sucked, people stopped caring?
- Pecafan Fan

Nope....... Prior to Crosby, the Penguins couldn't fill half the arena. The year they drafted Crosby, they still weren't that good, yet they sold out.

Why???

CROSBY!!!!

The product, not the logo.

Which is why I said in certain markets that would work for a short while...but even the Leafs wouldn't be selling "hey come see the Leafs"...it would be hey come see this player or that player for the leafs or whatever player is coming to town on the opposing team.
The point is, the team and the league aren't promoting the sport upfront...they are promoting the players....the product. The sport gets promoted at the NHL level on the backs of the players.
- Fakepartofme

see to me the players arent the product.. the game is.. the players are nothing more than fuel for the product.

and there are millions who watch sports in the same matter i do.

sure great players help marketing.. absolutely. wont disagree there.

but lets be honest here. lets say the entire AHL was promoted to the NHL. it would only take a couple of drafts before you had another group of stars to promote.. the game would survive easily.

The point is that the value of the NHL is that it is a league with the best players in the world. The Leafs are a not very good team in a legue of the best players. There is no way that the corporate suits that fill the platinums are going to shell out top dollars for a tier two league.
- Canada Cup

And if these players all vanished, it would still be the league with the best players in the world.


And fans would still love their teams.

Nope....... Prior to Crosby, the Penguins couldn't fill half the arena. The year they drafted Crosby, they still weren't that good, yet they sold out.

Why???

CROSBY!!!!

The product, not the logo.
- faceto27

Franchise value of Penguins increased by 163% since Crosby arrived.

Nope....... Prior to Crosby, the Penguins couldn't fill half the arena. The year they drafted Crosby, they still weren't that good, yet they sold out.

Why???

CROSBY!!!!

The product, not the logo.
- faceto27

He is also one of the very few players that have played for a packed house in every rink, since he was 14 or younger. He is that special player, like Micheal Jordan, that can fill a rink, but like Robin said, the league did not fold when Wayne retired.

Nope....... Prior to Crosby, the Penguins couldn't fill half the arena. The year they drafted Crosby, they still weren't that good, yet they sold out.

Why???

CROSBY!!!!

The product, not the logo.
- faceto27

New York Isles got Tavares. They still sell less seats than the Coyotes.

Nope....... Prior to Crosby, the Penguins couldn't fill half the arena. The year they drafted Crosby, they still weren't that good, yet they sold out.

Why???

CROSBY!!!!

The product, not the logo.
- faceto27

Now, try to do that considering 2 things:

1 - The fact the league was coming out of a lockout
2 - The fact that Crosby is an exception, not the rule

Your fundamental argument is predicated on the greatest player to ever lace them up?

In reality...how many of the 750 players today are the primary reason for keeping their team afloat?
- Pen15

Thanks for jumping in several pages late, but no my fundamental argument is not predicated on the greatest player of all time...it was an example.
My argument is, players sell the sport, the league sells the players....at the NHL level.
There will always be hockey fans and there will always be leaf fans who will watch the game because its hockey or because its the leafs....but the NHL doesn't just survive on die hard fans (in fact if the past 110 days has proved anything, the NHL doesn't give a damn about the hard cores fans - as they know they will return no matter what) but it survives on selling its stars and of course the game to new fans.

Even jr teams do this, they sell there players, but at that level its much more community based, so the name on the front is of bigger importance in some cases.

Franchise value of Penguins increased by 163% since Crosby arrived.
- Canada Cup

So are there any fans in teh stands in the other leagues around the globe. They still play and watch hockey. The KHL had lots of fans last year as well..

He is also one of the very few players that have played for a packed house in every rink, since he was 14 or younger. He is that special player, like Micheal Jordan, that can fill a rink, but like Robin said, the league did not fold when Wayne retired.
- bixll

Would the Penguins have survived without Crosby coming at the time they did??

The point is that the value of the NHL is that it is a league with the best players in the world. The Leafs are a not very good team in a legue of the best players. There is no way that the corporate suits that fill the platinums are going to shell out top dollars for a tier two league.
- Canada Cup

i sincerely doubt the suits are buying those seats for the love of hockey.. its a shmoozefest.

the players are replaceable.. and always will be. look at how many young stars are in the AHL right now

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?id=75725

71 by my count.. alot of them high end stars

and thats not including top tier prospects still playing overseas.

New York Isles got Tavares. They still sell less seats than the Coyotes.
- AdamFrench

this.