I don't get the point you're making so I'm going to assume you misunderstood my post
- Cfser

I understood - I was agreeing with you.

We are now at a point where many "fans" aren't pro-owner or pro-player - they are openly hoping the season gets cancelled, out of spite.

That's not rational thought. But it is how many fans feel.

Including me.

It's a joke. The NHL knows the NHLPA will never disband.

It applies no pressure whatsoever.
- Atomic Wedgie

Would say some but not a lot of pressure. Chances of PA ever following through are very small but potential impact is huge so it provides a bit of leverage. Fehr not pulling the trigger may have had bigger impact

It's a joke. The NHL knows the NHLPA will never disband.

It applies no pressure whatsoever.
- Atomic Wedgie

Disagree...... why did everything fall apart the second the deadline passed?? I think new deadline put new pressure on the NHL.

NHL has payed this very poorly. Looks inept at every turn.

I understood - I was agreeing with you.

We are now at a point where many "fans" aren't pro-owner or pro-player - they are openly hoping the season gets cancelled, out of spite.

That's not rational thought. But it is how many fans feel.

Including me.
- Atomic Wedgie

I'm willing to bet that it's not nearly as many as you think. It's rhetoric ...part of the process ...makes us, as fans, feel better. People want hockey back ...

I want triple header Saturdays starting Jan 19th.

Did you see the uproar when Ken Campbell from THN tweeted that the players were trying to change the HHR definition?? That was false.... but when the owners actually do it no one says bo??? Hmmmm.
- burn

That's because most people would find it absurd that the side that risks NOTHING is setting the definition and driving the bus.

Disagree...... why did everything fall apart the second the deadline passed?? I think new deadline put new pressure on the NHL.

NHL has payed this very poorly. Looks inept at every turn.
- burn

How did everything fall apart? Do you expect them to be in the boardroom until 1am every night?

They're scheduled to meet again sometime tomorrow morning.

New Disclaimer vote coming.... only way to keep pressure on that jackass. He's blowing this big time. Utter cluster(frank) at every turn from that weasel.


FYI, Bettman likes and respects the players and it's killing him that they aren't playing right now. People actually believe that.
- burn

As long as both sides continue to negotiate and trade offers, there is no threat, and therefore no pressure of the DOI.

Disagree...... why did everything fall apart the second the deadline passed?? I think new deadline put new pressure on the NHL.

NHL has payed this very poorly. Looks inept at every turn.
- burn

Pensions. They haven't got close enough on this issue yet. The optimist in me says the deadline is still a week away so they will posture until that time comes. The pessimist says maybe its an issue they'll both die on. I'm mostly optimistic though.

Pensions. They haven't got close enough on this issue yet. The optimist in me says the deadline is still a week away so they will posture until that time comes. The pessimist says maybe its an issue they'll both die on. I'm mostly optimistic though.
- The Law

Yeah, I don't see the pension thing to be the issue that loses the season.

The cap (or floor in reality) is what'll kill it.

That's because most people would find it absurd that the side that risks NOTHING is setting the definition and driving the bus.
- Pen15

They're not. that was all agreed to months ago. To change it now is absurd..... to criticize the PA for rumours of them doing it (which turned out to be false) and then praise the owners for actually doing it is utterly moronic and highly biased.

That's because most people would find it absurd that the side that risks NOTHING is setting the definition and driving the bus.
- Pen15

That argument is as stupid now as it was three weeks ago.

How did everything fall apart? Do you expect them to be in the boardroom until 1am every night?

They're scheduled to meet again sometime tomorrow morning.
- Pen15

You not following along?? The owners changed the HHR, cheap move at this stage (after disclaimer deadline)... and haven't met since.

That argument is as stupid now as it was three weeks ago.
- Canada Cup

How is it stupid? Please explain.

You don't think the owners should have more weight in defining HRR? You really think that should be a 50/50 decision? Even when one side assumes all risk, while the other just collects the fruits of that labour?

As long as both sides continue to negotiate and trade offers, there is no threat, and therefore no pressure of the DOI.
- Pen15

Umm, agreed. do you not maybe see an issue there though?? Maybe a little issue of the league not negotiating and trading offers? Kinda throws a monkey wrench into that process, no?

Yeah, I don't see the pension thing to be the issue that loses the season.

The cap (or floor in reality) is what'll kill it.
- Pen15

I read yesterday (Shoalts?) that the PA gave the NHL the floor ....44 million (16 million below 60 cap). PA still wants a higher cap (65) to allow for some equity to those players signing contracts next summer. The NHL says that'll hurt competitive balance ..i.e. a bigger gap between floor and cap. If true, thats not an issue that'll cancel a season.

How is it stupid? Please explain.

You don't think the owners should have more weight in defining HRR? You really think that should be a 50/50 decision? Even when one side assumes all risk, while the other just collects the fruits of that labour?
- Pen15

Just like every other league??

You not following along?? The owners changed the HHR, cheap move at this stage (after disclaimer deadline)... and haven't met since.
- burn

i thought they met yesterday morning and the owners changed the language back? HRR not an issue?

You not following along?? The owners changed the HHR, cheap move at this stage (after disclaimer deadline)... and haven't met since.
- burn

I am following along...and depending on whether you get your information from TSN, or Sportsnet, you'll get a different vibe.

That being said, both sources (irrespective of their optimism/pessimism) report that both sides are scheduled to meet sometime this morning. So not sure why you're posting that things have fallen apart when they clearly haven't.

i thought they met yesterday morning and the owners changed the language back? HRR not an issue?
- The Law

That's correct.

It was actually positioned as a misunderstanding...

They're not. that was all agreed to months ago. To change it now is absurd..... to criticize the PA for rumours of them doing it (which turned out to be false) and then praise the owners for actually doing it is utterly moronic and highly biased.
- burn

I'm not praising either side...but I do believe one side has more claim to establishing the definition than the other.

How is it stupid? Please explain.

You don't think the owners should have more weight in defining HRR? You really think that should be a 50/50 decision? Even when one side assumes all risk, while the other just collects the fruits of that labour?
- Pen15

In all fairness though, and I really hate taking sides here, but its the risk they take by being in this business. Nobody forced them in, they chose to join the league knowing the risks at the time. What I think is more important though in this part of the debate is that knowing the risks, the owners have shown absolutely no willing to control such risks by controlling their spending. They fought for a cap, cried poor, then found ways around that cap and spent beyond their means.

At to that the fact the players put their bodies on the line game in, game out and its unfair to say the owners take all the risks here. Maybe financially, but ask all the players suffering brain damage from concussions (concussions are the biggest, but by no means only example) and ask their families if they risked anything at all.

No amount of money can replace permanent physical damage, especially to the head.

Just thought Id add my two cents.

I read yesterday (Shoalts?) that the PA gave the NHL the floor ....44 million (16 million below 60 cap). PA still wants a higher cap (65) to allow for some equity to those players signing contracts next summer. The NHL says that'll hurt competitive balance ..i.e. a bigger gap between floor and cap. If true, thats not an issue that'll cancel a season.
- The Law

You're probably right. At this point actually, I don't think any one issue will kill the season. It just might delay getting a deal done to the last possible minute.

i thought they met yesterday morning and the owners changed the language back? HRR not an issue?
- The Law

Yes, but that wasn't the point......

Fans are now openly hoping for a cancelled season.

Think about that for a moment.
- Atomic Wedgie

While I will defintiely be back and watch when they return at this point I sort of wish they would cancel.. Ill be fine

I am following along...and depending on whether you get your information from TSN, or Sportsnet, you'll get a different vibe.

That being said, both sources (irrespective of their optimism/pessimism) report that both sides are scheduled to meet sometime this morning. So not sure why you're posting that things have fallen apart when they clearly haven't.
- Pen15

right..... Not meeting (only separate with mediators) and players saying they are more galvanized and they didn't like the cheap HHR swap..... things are moving along smoothing. Things moving just as well after this HHR switch and before??