How about PROFIT?

Who lost more in Profit (salary)?

Which side is being more stupid?

Pretty tough to debate the point so thankfully, you will chicken out yet again anyway
- Aetherial

Narrow minded thinking........ won't even bother to try and debate this issue with you.

The CBA crap will go down to the wire and once again the owners are their own worst enemy. It's apparent to me that the owners are desperate for a season and will continue to improve their offer right up to the last minute (sometime around 1/10).
My best guess is the following:
A 10 year CBA, even the players know this is a necessity to keep the fanbase happy
A make whole provision of $325 million
A 50/50 split with a cap limit of 70.2 this season 61-62 million next season, and the legitimate number for the next 8.
Contract limits of 7 years for free agents and 8 years for your own players
Year to year contract variance of 20%
One amnesty buyout that does not count against the cap OR the players share.

What ticks me off is that if the NHL had proposed this deal on October 1st and made it clear that if the deal was not agreed to by October 15th, the entire season would be cancelled, we would have had an agreement on the 15th and the season would have started on 11/01.

It's a damned shame that this league is run by morons!!


- BiggE

And the Owners should have realized this as soon as they realized, which was a while ago, they weren't prepared to back up their statements that this is a final offer, and this is a hill we will die on. The players were willing all along to stand by their convictions. Regardless of how much money it cost them.

I don't know how the deal is going to look when finished. But for sure negotiations aren't done.

And the Owners should have realized this as soon as they realized, which was a while ago, they weren't prepared to back up their statements that this is a final offer, and this is a hill we will die on. The players were willing all along to stand by their convictions. Regardless of how much money it cost them.

I don't know how the deal is going to look when finished. But for sure negotiations aren't done.
- MJL

Fehr will squeeze more out of the owners. The owners blinked. Their done.

Their last number one was Belfour, before the 2004 lockout. Nothing to argue.

And again, being defensive and childish because the truth about the Flyers goaltending woes was discussed. I never said Bryz was no good. I was agreeing they shouldnt buy him out, while disagreeing the Flyers are better off losing the rest of the season as opposed to playing it. Please dont cry.
- systemtool

Cry about what? Forgot about belfours 2 good years in TO.....just remembered the slug that played after the lock out when Belfour was brutal....leaf fans are always touchy when it comes to debating....I guess when you never make the playoffs it gets to ya...on the bright side I don't have to put out for playoff tickets....the regular season costs me enough...

Fehr will squeeze more out of the owners. The owners blinked. Their done.
- faceto27

Agreed....lets just hope he doesn't alienate the owners, because the deadline is approaching.

And the Owners should have realized this as soon as they realized, which was a while ago, they weren't prepared to back up their statements that this is a final offer, and this is a hill we will die on. The players were willing all along to stand by their convictions. Regardless of how much money it cost them.

I don't know how the deal is going to look when finished. But for sure negotiations aren't done.
- MJL

You know as well as anybody......this is business....and money....there is no room for "convictions" in negotiations for a CBA....

Fehr will squeeze more out of the owners. The owners blinked. Their done.
- faceto27

I think the final deal will be relatively close to the owners current offer. Add another year to contract length and split the difference on CBA length. The only issue where there is a bit of difference is on variance but I could see them staying at 10% or maybe moving up a bit.

Cry about what? Forgot about belfours 2 good years in TO.....just remembered the slug that played after the lock out when Belfour was brutal....leaf fans are always touchy when it comes to debating....I guess when you never make the playoffs it gets to ya...on the bright side I don't have to put out for playoff tickets....the regular season costs me enough...
- landros 2

The crying and defensive posts continue. Well done.

You know as well as anybody......this is business....and money....there is no room for "convictions" in negotiations for a CBA....
- landros 2

Individual collective agreements are about money and working conditions. Contract terms are big issues to players. This CBA was also about the relationship between the PA and league. Not folding and keeping the membership together has been very important after the fiasco of the last negotiations. Convictions do matter if you don't want to get run over at the end of every CBA.

You know as well as anybody......this is business....and money....there is no room for "convictions" in negotiations for a CBA....
- landros 2

Sure there is. If you make a statement like this is our final offer multiple times without having the conviction to stand by that. You lose leverage.

Narrow minded thinking........ won't even bother to try and debate this issue with you.
- faceto27

Why is it narrow minded? In terms of income, the owners lost about $100M. The players lost $900M. In terms of franchise value, with better margins, you'll see franchise values increase. If revenues are hurt, that may offset those gains. If that happens, however, the $900M that players lost is just the beginning as well.

Individual collective agreements are about money and working conditions. Contract terms are big issues to players. This CBA was also about the relationship between the PA and league. Not folding and keeping the membership together has been very important after the fiasco of the last negotiations. Convictions do matter if you don't want to get run over at the end of every CBA.
- Canada Cup

Bingo!!!!!!!!

Eklund: Owners Directed Gary to End This, The Players Must Do the Same with Fehr.
- Eklund

This will have to wait till after the weekend, it's just not that important

Individual collective agreements are about money and working conditions. Contract terms are big issues to players. This CBA was also about the relationship between the PA and league. Not folding and keeping the membership together has been very important after the fiasco of the last negotiations. Convictions do matter if you don't want to get run over at the end of every CBA.
- Canada Cup

Exactly!


But yet as little as a few days ago I was still reading from posters that the players wanted to vote on the offer from the players/owners meeting from early Dec., and that Fehr put a stop to that.

Cry about what? Forgot about belfours 2 good years in TO.....just remembered the slug that played after the lock out when Belfour was brutal....leaf fans are always touchy when it comes to debating....I guess when you never make the playoffs it gets to ya...on the bright side I don't have to put out for playoff tickets....the regular season costs me enough...
- landros 2

It sure does, you don't remember?

Sure there is. If you make a statement like this is our final offer multiple times without having the conviction to stand by that. You lose leverage.
- MJL

Perhaps.....but money talks.....BS walks....

One of the biggest hurdles I see is the buy out issue......and who's side of the ledger it goes to.....some of those deals could be worth some big dollars with lots of years remaining....

You can't compare the WHA to the KHL...
The world has changed... A LOT
Espn, NBC, whoever can broadcast games from anywhere now

Before Crosby, they had Gretzky, Lemuix, Yzerman, Hull...
What the hell are u talking about?!

Ya, ppl still watched when Crosby was hurt, but that's bc there was Malkin, Iginla, stamkos, etc etc etc
If those guys left the NHL the league would struggle big time
If what you say is true,
Why doesn't the NHL just use "replacement" players?

The players are ABSOLUTELY vital to the success of the league
- jdfitz77

Just like on the Sabres boards - you are wrong

Perhaps.....but money talks.....BS walks....

One of the biggest hurdles I see is the buy out issue......and who's side of the ledger it goes to.....some of those deals could be worth some big dollars with lots of years remaining....
- landros 2

I think that is going to be an issue of further negotiation also

It sure does, you don't remember?
- Cptmjl

Sure I do....but then I got to watch JVR.....for a few years and all was forgiven.

Sure I do....but then I got to watch JVR.....for a few years and all was forgiven.
- landros 2

There is a give and take, I've been giving for far too long now... Not that there is anything wrong with watching Tavares

Individual collective agreements are about money and working conditions. Contract terms are big issues to players. This CBA was also about the relationship between the PA and league. Not folding and keeping the membership together has been very important after the fiasco of the last negotiations. Convictions do matter if you don't want to get run over at the end of every CBA.
- Canada Cup

I see your point.....but I don't believe all the owners share those convictions....and i don't think the players share in all of the views of their reps either.....the last 2 CBAs have all about limiting what the owners have to pay....and suppressing the income of the players....it's tough to negotiate up hill, but Fehr has done so.....

There is a give and take, I've been giving for far too long now... Not that there is anything wrong with watching Tavares
- Cptmjl

I was trying to be funny.....Taveras is only going to get better....JVR....never put it all together...though he still might.

I see your point.....but I don't believe all the owners share those convictions....and i don't think the players share in all of the views of their reps either.....the last 2 CBAs have all about limiting what the owners have to pay....and suppressing the income of the players....it's tough to negotiate up hill, but Fehr has done so.....
- landros 2

My only fear now is that Fehr really knows he has the upper hand. We'll see what the players come back with.

2013 NHL Draft

CBJ - MacKinnon, C
EDM - Jones, D
NYI - Drouin, LW
ANA - Barkov, C
MTL - Shinkaruk, LW
BUF - Monahan, C
CAR - Lindholm, C
PHX - Nichuskin, C
WPG - Pulock, D
NSH - Morrissey, D
MIN - Ristolainen, D
NJ - Lazar, C
TOR - Domi, C

It will happen
- OilerFanFromBC

Edmonton wont be picking second. Jones would be a great addition tho

I see your point.....but I don't believe all the owners share those convictions....and i don't think the players share in all of the views of their reps either.....the last 2 CBAs have all about limiting what the owners have to pay....and suppressing the income of the players....it's tough to negotiate up hill, but Fehr has done so.....
- landros 2

The most important factors have been that the players have hung together -98% support to give Fehr the go nuclear option - while owners have very different views. Either way, the owners have achieved much of what they wanted - 50-50 and term limits.