Michalek went down more than Brittney Spears in her "Hit Me Baby One More Time" phase. He sucked. Gonch for right price only or a middling prospect. A stout, sturdy stay at home defenseman who can skate would be much preferable. I understand that the league has made an offer to the players.
- powerhouse[Yawn.]

According to Mark Madden, Z constantly going down in an attempt to block passes was a coaching decision. He didn't like doing it and he didn't play that way with the yotes, but for some reason Bylsma and company demanded he do it here.

When I mentioned earlier that the coaches asked him to change his game, this is what I was talking about. I don't think we ever got to see Z play his own game. I think there are parallels with how poorly Martin has performed and being asked to do things he shouldn't. Paul Martin should never, EVER go further than 5 feet beyond the blue line.

The Pens spent 9 mil on two coveted defensman with track records and they both fell flat on the faces. I think that should warrant some analysis of system and coaching IMO. I'll add that Martin's first year here was really pretty decent......not 5 mil decent however.

According to Mark Madden, Z constantly going down in an attempt to block passes was a coaching decision. He didn't like doing it and he didn't play that way with the yotes, but for some reason Bylsma and company demanded he do it here.

When I mentioned earlier that the coaches asked him to change his game, this is what I was talking about. I don't think we ever got to see Z play his own game. I think there are parallels with how poorly Martin has performed and being asked to do things he shouldn't. Paul Martin should never, EVER go further than 5 feet beyond the blue line.

The Pens spent 9 mil on two coveted defensman with track records and they both fell flat on the faces. I think that should warrant some analysis of system and coaching IMO. I'll add that Martin's first year here was really pretty decent......not 5 mil decent however.
- madmike71

I'm not sure about the shot blocking as it was taking him out of the play too much to imagine the coaches were encouraging it. I will admit they felt Martin had untapped offensive abilities and tried to develop them. That was obvious.

Some form of realignment could be good, but having an uneven number of teams in each division is just stupid. Either remove 2 teams or add 2 more teams before splitting the league into 4 divisions.

Bring back the World Cup of Hockey every 4 years. It would be much more exciting than the All Star Game.

i've said it once, ill say it again.

until bylsma changes his style or the penguins change coaches, the penguins will continue to be a regular season powerhouse team and a playoff choker.

sure, leading in goals is great. during the playoffs, its more about how many you give up.

LA gave up the same number of goals (30) in 4 rounds, than the penguins did in 6 games (i think).

good defense wins championships, not a good offense.

and a good defense starts with a good defensive system, something the penguins dont have.

bylsma took a well disciplined and talented hockey club in 2009 and won the cup. ever since installing his system the next season, the penguins have yet to get out of the first round besides 10 when they beat a weak OTT team.

if you look at the playoff games against MTL in 2010, TB in 2011, and PHI in 2012, what is the common theme?

blowing 3rd period leads.

until this kind of stuff changes, dont expect anything different.

having said that, if these clowns ever get the NHL back on the ice, i think a shorten season will help out this club.

i've said it once, ill say it again.

until bylsma changes his style or the penguins change coaches, the penguins will continue to be a regular season powerhouse team and a playoff choker.

sure, leading in goals is great. during the playoffs, its more about how many you give up.

LA gave up the same number of goals (30) in 4 rounds, than the penguins did in 6 games (i think).

good defense wins championships, not a good offense.

and a good defense starts with a good defensive system, something the penguins dont have.

bylsma took a well disciplined and talented hockey club in 2009 and won the cup. ever since installing his system the next season, the penguins have yet to get out of the first round besides 10 when they beat a weak OTT team.

if you look at the playoff games against MTL in 2010, TB in 2011, and PHI in 2012, what is the common theme?

blowing 3rd period leads.

until this kind of stuff changes, dont expect anything different.

having said that, if these clowns ever get the NHL back on the ice, i think a shorten season will help out this club.
- SuperHenderson13

Clowns on ice? I like the idea, cue the kalliope music!

i've said it once, ill say it again.

until bylsma changes his style or the penguins change coaches, the penguins will continue to be a regular season powerhouse team and a playoff choker.

sure, leading in goals is great. during the playoffs, its more about how many you give up.

LA gave up the same number of goals (30) in 4 rounds, than the penguins did in 6 games (i think).

good defense wins championships, not a good offense.

and a good defense starts with a good defensive system, something the penguins dont have.

bylsma took a well disciplined and talented hockey club in 2009 and won the cup. ever since installing his system the next season, the penguins have yet to get out of the first round besides 10 when they beat a weak OTT team.

if you look at the playoff games against MTL in 2010, TB in 2011, and PHI in 2012, what is the common theme?

blowing 3rd period leads.

until this kind of stuff changes, dont expect anything different.

having said that, if these clowns ever get the NHL back on the ice, i think a shorten season will help out this club.
- SuperHenderson13

clap clap clap

Thats why Gonchar fixes nothing, but the need for more PP offense. In addition, its hard to change to a defensive system while using dmen who cant play d. Gonchar is a million years old, and cant help a team in their own zone. Get someone young who knows his own teams end of the ice, has some offensive upside and you're a much better team with a younger play who can help you now and in the future.

i've said it once, ill say it again.

until bylsma changes his style or the penguins change coaches, the penguins will continue to be a regular season powerhouse team and a playoff choker.

sure, leading in goals is great. during the playoffs, its more about how many you give up.

LA gave up the same number of goals (30) in 4 rounds, than the penguins did in 6 games (i think).

good defense wins championships, not a good offense.

and a good defense starts with a good defensive system, something the penguins dont have.

bylsma took a well disciplined and talented hockey club in 2009 and won the cup. ever since installing his system the next season, the penguins have yet to get out of the first round besides 10 when they beat a weak OTT team.

if you look at the playoff games against MTL in 2010, TB in 2011, and PHI in 2012, what is the common theme?

blowing 3rd period leads.

until this kind of stuff changes, dont expect anything different.

having said that, if these clowns ever get the NHL back on the ice, i think a shorten season will help out this club.
- SuperHenderson13

Can't disagree with anything here. If we actually have a season, I believe Bylsma will need to (at least) get into the 3rd round to save his job (if the team stays healthy). This team is built to win now and that Flyers beat down was embarrassing. Lots of talk around here after that series that Mario was furious with that performance. It's one thing to lose to a good team, it's another to look completely unprepared for "playoff hockey".

grigorenko looks awesome. i still cant believe the pens passed him up for pouliot

Anybody ever purchase anything from the Lemieux Foundation? I ordered a sweatshirt on December 6th and it never came. I have emailed twice with no response. I mean I could think of many worse things than my money going to cancer but it was a gift for somebody and I think I at least deserve a response.

I'm not sure about the shot blocking as it was taking him out of the play too much to imagine the coaches were encouraging it. I will admit they felt Martin had untapped offensive abilities and tried to develop them. That was obvious.
- powerhouse

I'm just restating what Mark Madden reported. Not that I take his every word as fact, but he does have some connections with the team and he insists the coaches, specifically Savard, coached him to flop to the ice to block passes.

I'll turn it around, if the coaches weren't coaching him to do that, why would he continue to do it? The guy was on his belly more than his skates, if the coaches didn't encourage it, why didn't they put a stop to it? Like you say, he was consistently taking himself out of the play, it would seem a good coach would tell him to stay on his feet.

grigorenko looks awesome. i still cant believe the pens passed him up for pouliot
- drummer829

We don't really have a need for a top 6 center. Shero seems to have a knack for flipping young d men for wingers. I also think we need insurance for if Letang leaves, which I think is a legit possibility.

I'm just restating what Mark Madden reported. Not that I take his every word as fact, but he does have some connections with the team and he insists the coaches, specifically Savard, coached him to flop to the ice to block passes.

I'll turn it around, if the coaches weren't coaching him to do that, why would he continue to do it? The guy was on his belly more than his skates, if the coaches didn't encourage it, why didn't they put a stop to it? Like you say, he was consistently taking himself out of the play, it would seem a good coach would tell him to stay on his feet.
- madmike71

I think the answer is they got rid of him.

We don't really have a need for a top 6 center. Shero seems to have a knack for flipping young d men for wingers. I also think we need insurance for if Letang leaves, which I think is a legit possibility.
- Gunner Staal

i dont know, i guess it depends how he turns out. But I have a feeling the Shero will be much busier come July during free agency. Anyone think Shero anticipated a lengthy lockout and freed up that capspace not for the 12-13 season, but for the 13-14 season?

i dont know, i guess it depends how he turns out. But I have a feeling the Shero will be much busier come July during free agency. Anyone think Shero anticipated a lengthy lockout and freed up that capspace not for the 12-13 season, but for the 13-14 season?
- drummer829

13-14 definitely has better options for the Pens. I'm sure Shero took that into consideration. It was such a blessing to not sign Parise.

13-14 definitely has better options for the Pens. I'm sure Shero took that into consideration. It was such a blessing to not sign Parise.
- Gunner Staal

Yes it was a blessing. Ultimately, because of his size and the way he plays I don't believe Parise will be durable. How much snow did you get Gunner? We got 3" more today.

Yes it was a blessing. Ultimately, because of his size and the way he plays I don't believe Parise will be durable. How much snow did you get Gunner? We got 3" more today.
- powerhouse

15.5 inches during main storm, another 2-5 today.

i dont know, i guess it depends how he turns out. But I have a feeling the Shero will be much busier come July during free agency. Anyone think Shero anticipated a lengthy lockout and freed up that capspace not for the 12-13 season, but for the 13-14 season?
- drummer829

I think they really anticipated making a run at Parise and possibly Suter. Who knew those guys would get those crazy contracts. I agree it's a blessing not landing those players for that $$$$. Good players, not worth those contracts.

With the looks of the future cap number the Pens cap space might simply disappear in 13-14. Plus... I really want them to keep Letang and Malkin and this new proposed CBA might make it difficult to add another significant piece.

If they build a new 1 time buyout in the next CBA anybody think they'll dump martin?

Got to admit, I hate the buyout idea. Means Philly is going to dump Bryz. I wanted them to be married to that lunatic for years to come.

I think they really anticipated making a run at Parise and possibly Suter. Who knew those guys would get those crazy contracts. I agree it's a blessing not landing those players for that $$$$. Good players, not worth those contracts.

With the looks of the future cap number the Pens cap space might simply disappear in 13-14. Plus... I really want them to keep Letang and Malkin and this new proposed CBA might make it difficult to add another significant piece.

If they build a new 1 time buyout in the next CBA anybody think they'll dump martin?

Got to admit, I hate the buyout idea. Means Philly is going to dump Bryz. I wanted them to be married to that lunatic for years to come.
- madmike71

I think they'll dump briere not the cosmonaut. He is always injured and his +- in the playoffs is terrible, can't be bothered looking up his corsi rating but in sure in the playoffs it's not great.

Bryz will be fine for them, he won't be as bad as last year ever again I think. MAF finished terribly last year due to no team d in front of him, and Martin trying to decapitate him. After that collision you saw a post Lucic Miller not the MAF who stole games earlier in the year.

I think he played too many games for a team who gave up too many quality chances, he would have felt like he was getting shelled with some of the holes that team leaves open. If Vokoun can play every 4th game in this shortened season, we are going to be a lot better off come playoff time, if the teams GAA is over 2.50 we are screwed.

We don't really have a need for a top 6 center. Shero seems to have a knack for flipping young d men for wingers. I also think we need insurance for if Letang leaves, which I think is a legit possibility.
- Gunner Staal

disagree with this. you always take the best player available.

sure, our top 2 centers are covered now, but what happens in a few years when both guys move past their prime?

not saying either's production will drop off quickly, but it is important to note that neither of these two are getting any younger. sid takes such good care of his body that (if he avoids another concussion) he could make a run into his 40s. malkin might be the same way.

i think grigs will be a much better player than our guy. wasnt convinced with our pick back in june, still not convinced.

you have to think that this could be our last top 10 pick for a few years and i just think that we should have taken that chance on grigs.

guy may not have the attitude, but it is easier to change that than it is skills.

i loved the maata pick though. will be a really solid dman one day. hoping to get a glimpse of him at the WJC.

luckily Minnesota took Matt Dumba before our pick. if we would have passed on Dumba, i would have killed someone.

and im seriously loving Scott Harrington. I could see him and Maata become that shut down pair that we really need.

Loving the state of our defense prospects. but a forward prospect or two wouldnt kill anyone.

I think they'll dump briere not the cosmonaut. He is always injured and his +- in the playoffs is terrible, can't be bothered looking up his corsi rating but in sure in the playoffs it's not great.

Bryz will be fine for them, he won't be as bad as last year ever again I think. MAF finished terribly last year due to no team d in front of him, and Martin trying to decapitate him. After that collision you saw a post Lucic Miller not the MAF who stole games earlier in the year.

I think he played too many games for a team who gave up too many quality chances, he would have felt like he was getting shelled with some of the holes that team leaves open. If Vokoun can play every 4th game in this shortened season, we are going to be a lot better off come playoff time, if the teams GAA is over 2.50 we are screwed.
- walshy66

i dont think they would put it on briere. isnt his deal expiring in the next year or two?

i know his production has gone down, but he has absolutely killed the penguins in the past.

Bryz has to recover. he isnt a bad goalie, i just think he had a rough transition.

15.5 inches during main storm, another 2-5 today.
- Gunner Staal

We got 8" the other day and 3 or 4" more yesterday. Wind pretty whippy and 29F
right now. Might go X Country skiing if wind lets up a little.

disagree with this. you always take the best player available.

sure, our top 2 centers are covered now, but what happens in a few years when both guys move past their prime?

not saying either's production will drop off quickly, but it is important to note that neither of these two are getting any younger. sid takes such good care of his body that (if he avoids another concussion) he could make a run into his 40s. malkin might be the same way.

i think grigs will be a much better player than our guy. wasnt convinced with our pick back in june, still not convinced.

you have to think that this could be our last top 10 pick for a few years and i just think that we should have taken that chance on grigs.

guy may not have the attitude, but it is easier to change that than it is skills.

i loved the maata pick though. will be a really solid dman one day. hoping to get a glimpse of him at the WJC.

luckily Minnesota took Matt Dumba before our pick. if we would have passed on Dumba, i would have killed someone.

and im seriously loving Scott Harrington. I could see him and Maata become that shut down pair that we really need.

Loving the state of our defense prospects. but a forward prospect or two wouldnt kill anyone.
- SuperHenderson13

There is a reason he dropped to 12. People had reservations about him. It wasn't worth the risk of seeing if he panned out for a position they didnt need. Can't use hindsight.

I think they'll dump briere not the cosmonaut. He is always injured and his +- in the playoffs is terrible, can't be bothered looking up his corsi rating but in sure in the playoffs it's not great.

Bryz will be fine for them, he won't be as bad as last year ever again I think. MAF finished terribly last year due to no team d in front of him, and Martin trying to decapitate him. After that collision you saw a post Lucic Miller not the MAF who stole games earlier in the year.

I think he played too many games for a team who gave up too many quality chances, he would have felt like he was getting shelled with some of the holes that team leaves open. If Vokoun can play every 4th game in this shortened season, we are going to be a lot better off come playoff time, if the teams GAA is over 2.50 we are screwed.
- walshy66

Briere is a playoff machine.

Since leaving Buffalo he has 37 playoff goals in 68 games.

The Sabres as a team in that same timeframe have 33 goals in 13 games.

There is a reason he dropped to 12. People had reservations about him. It wasn't worth the risk of seeing if he panned out for a position they didnt need. Can't use hindsight.
- Gunner Staal

when youre a team like the penguins, you can afford to take that risk. he dropped because the teams in the top 5 (which is what his talent was) werent willing to take the risk on a russian who didnt have the heart. when youre a team like the penguins who have the talent already, you can take a risk on a head case like him.

besides, our pick wasnt exactly conservative in my opinion. at this guy's size, he is a huge risk.

grigs wouldve been nice but it is hard to disagree with the picks if the players turn out to be what shero believes they are. the team's wagon is going to be hitched to crosby and malkin at the center position. if these defensive players develop into what they need to be, the team will be able to survive letang leaving. (which i do think he does, this team wont be able to afford giving him 7.5 a year)