I would hope that Fehr's ego will allow this to end here. Vote over the weekend and camps can start on the second. Will Kane be sobered up from New Year's by then?
- NewToHockey

Camp starting will probably be in a 10 days or 2 weeks after a vote.

Chatter going around is Jan 12....But and it is a big but the Pa has to agree.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia

I just tweeted this....

Negotiations often end when both sides feel like they won. This seems like the PA now has an opportunity to feel like they have won.

Maybe the PA can squeeze a little more but this is the time to act.
- Al

You nailed it right on the head. This is key to ending things. PA better jump through this open window.

I have no doubt about that, but Luongo will be very picky about where he goes. While he might be willing to accept a trade to Toronto (due to lack of any other viable options) I doubt he'd sign there as a free agent. I'm sure Luongo would love to stick it to the Canucks (on the ice) and what better place to do that than Chicago. I'm not suggesting that Stan pull out all the stops to get Luongo, but if Luo becomes a free agent then it's something to be pursued.
- DarthKane

i don't disagree, but obviously, at this moment in time, any of this talk is pretty far down the road of conjecture.

IF the two sides come to an agreement, and IF there is an opportunity for Vancouver to buy Lu out, then by all means, the Hawks would be smart to look at grabbing Lu for 3-4 years or less.

But then there's another IF . . . like all free agents past a certain age, probably the biggest thing driving Lu will be who offers the best combination of dollars and term.

I will say this, even though right now it is almost impossible to define what the market would be post agreement, if there are any premier goalies available, the Hawks should be in that mix in a big way.

Only a FOOL and a LOSER would be putting all the chips of an otherwise very strong, Cup contending club on Corey Crawford. Not to pick on Crawford, nice kid, but other than a good rookie season and playoffs, he has not shown as a pro he is anything special, especially last season.

Crawford COULD come up big and be the Cup winning goalie. Could. But would you bet your job on it?

Whenever hockey resumes, to me, this is a watershed year for Stan Bowman and the Hawk front office as composed. We have seen that this front office drafts well (probably mostly due to scouting and Norm McIver) and it sheds salary well.

We have seen almost nothing to indicate it is good at acquiring NHL talent or prospects.

If this were 2004, when the Hawks needed to draft well and shed contracts of bad, overpaid players, then those might be very useful skills. But this is a team that should be a top 4-6 team every year.

The last two seasons, since Bowman took over, it has not been.

JJ...when do you think re-alignment will be addressed? Was the issue too big to be part of the current CBA negotiations?

It IS bad faith because neither side is negotiating - just waiting for the other side to cave.

You may say that that is good bargaining; I say it is short-sighted, bad-faith, destructive....
- StLBravesFan

Deal fatigue is a common negotiating tactic in labor disputes as well as stuff like buying a car.

It isn't bad faith. It is a common part of the process and both sides are more than likely prepared for it.

Look at what Fehr did with baseball. Regardless of your opinions of the guy, baseball players are making more money than they ever have for longer terms and the sport generates a ridiculous amount of TV revenue making even garbage teams that barely fill the stands profitable.

Why would he do anything else or instruct his team to do anything else if you go off of past history?

For better or worse the notion that hockey is "about the sport" can finally die. As this labor dispute has shown it is just as much about the business of hockey for the players... especially the well paid ones... as it is the owners.

I could easily write 2500 words trying to address your statements....

I'm still working off the wine I consumed on Christmas day so for now I will just say the players are not allowed to use team facilities....Thus locked out.
- Al

Yeah I'm not trying to be hostile about it if that is what it seems but if they aren't technically employed then how can they be locked out? In which case if they are technically employed how can they not be getting paid? Doesn't make sense to me.

JJ...when do you think re-alignment will be addressed? Was the issue too big to be part of the current CBA negotiations?
- DarthKane

I don't think Fehr will bite on the re-allignement that was originally proposed.

Simply put some teams had a better chance of making the playoffs than others and that shouldn't fly.

Yeah I'm not trying to be hostile about it if that is what it seems but if they aren't technically employed then how can they be locked out? In which case if they are technically employed how can they not be getting paid? Doesn't make sense to me.
- fattybeef

I didn't take it that way, my response is basically the same as your conclusion...

So much doesn't make sense.

It IS bad faith because neither side is negotiating - just waiting for the other side to cave.

You may say that that is good bargaining; I say it is short-sighted, bad-faith, destructive....
- StLBravesFan

speaking about caving..Ecklunds never ending optimism is on display this morning:

"Told this by two reliable sources: NHL Offer includes...

Player contracts from 5 years to 6 years
Variability from 5% to 10%
Make whole remains at $300m
Plus more"

Anybody believe this?

BTW went to the Wolves/Icehog last nite. Nothing else to do but handle 3 hour plus RT to beautiful Rockford.

Hogs played a real nice game. Wolves got absolutely nothing 5 on 5....did score 2 PP goals. Leddy and Shaw were excellent. Hogs were quick to the puck and dominated the whole game and won 3-2. Morin DNP...hurt?

speaking about caving..Ecklunds never ending optimism is on display this morning:

"Told this by two reliable sources: NHL Offer includes...

Player contracts from 5 years to 6 years
Variability from 5% to 10%
Make whole remains at $300m
Plus more"

Anybody believe this?

BTW went to the Wolves/Icehog last nite. Nothing else to do but handle 3 hour plus RT to beautiful Rockford.

Hogs played a real nice game. Wolves got absolutely nothing 5 on 5....did score 2 PP goals. Leddy and Shaw were excellent. Hogs were quick to the puck and dominated the whole game and won 3-2. Morin DNP...hurt?
- bogiedoc

Dreger reported that same thing on TSN today. According to multiple reports on twitter the NHLPA will be having a conference call today to discuss it. Hopefully this is the day(s) we've all been waiting for.

I would hope that Fehr's ego will allow this to end here. Vote over the weekend and camps can start on the second. Will Kane be sobered up from New Year's by then?
- NewToHockey

Kane had a nice shoot-out goal a couple of days ago - kind of like the Minnesota goal, slow, Schneider (I think) was going every which way.

Of course, like all SO goals with tricky moves, the puck did move backward a couple of times....

speaking about caving..Ecklunds never ending optimism is on display this morning:

"Told this by two reliable sources: NHL Offer includes...

Player contracts from 5 years to 6 years
Variability from 5% to 10%
Make whole remains at $300m
Plus more"

Anybody believe this?

BTW went to the Wolves/Icehog last nite. Nothing else to do but handle 3 hour plus RT to beautiful Rockford.

Hogs played a real nice game. Wolves got absolutely nothing 5 on 5....did score 2 PP goals. Leddy and Shaw were excellent. Hogs were quick to the puck and dominated the whole game and won 3-2. Morin DNP...hurt?
- bogiedoc

LeBrun reported the same details on ESPN.com.

I absolutely loved Leddy at the point last night. Solid wrist shots that were on goal (is this allowed in the Hawks' system) that allowed Shaw to get the tip in.

I also saw why people are so fond of Flick. Nonstop effort, good follow through goal, and the sense of style with those Clay Matthews style blonde locks of his.

LeBrun reported the same details on ESPN.com.

I absolutely loved Leddy at the point last night. Solid wrist shots that were on goal (is this allowed in the Hawks' system) that allowed Shaw to get the tip in.

I also saw why people are so fond of Flick. Nonstop effort, good follow through goal, and the sense of style with those Clay Matthews style blonde locks of his.
- NewToHockey

What is interesting to me is that maybe some of the best prospects on Rockford are the fourth line/second pairing guys: the Stantons, Paradis, Flicks, Dahlbecks, Bolligs—in terms of fulfilling an NHL role someday, albeit reserve or very specialized NHL roles.

Guys like Pirri, Saad, Clendening all have to be top 6/top 4 guys in the NHL—none really looks ready. Smith is having an OK year, about what you'd expect.

I think this has been very good for Leddy as far as his confidence.

Trying to find some tape of Teravainen's goal, no luck so far.

Deal fatigue is a common negotiating tactic in labor disputes as well as stuff like buying a car.

It isn't bad faith. It is a common part of the process and both sides are more than likely prepared for it.

Look at what Fehr did with baseball. Regardless of your opinions of the guy, baseball players are making more money than they ever have for longer terms and the sport generates a ridiculous amount of TV revenue making even garbage teams that barely fill the stands profitable.

Why would he do anything else or instruct his team to do anything else if you go off of past history?

For better or worse the notion that hockey is "about the sport" can finally die. As this labor dispute has shown it is just as much about the business of hockey for the players... especially the well paid ones... as it is the owners.
- fattybeef

Well, all I can say is it's do or die time as far as a season this year. Looking from the outside in, it seems the owners have brought forth a pretty good deal for the players to settle on. Assuming the owners are, in fact, doing so in good faith, then a failure to do a deal now kind of has to be visited on Fehr.

Well, all I can say is it's do or die time as far as a season this year. Looking from the outside in, it seems the owners have brought forth a pretty good deal for the players to settle on. Assuming the owners are, in fact, doing so in good faith, then a failure to do a deal now kind of has to be visited on Fehr.
- John Jaeckel

I think this latest offer from the owners is more of a face saving move than anything else. They know the PA won't accept and that they'll counter with an offer that isn't remotely close to what the owners are willing to give. This way the owners can cancel the remaining games and tell the fans that they tried but the players weren't negotiating in good faith.

In the owners latest offer re-entry waivers are eliminating. Finally, Stan can recall Olesz with fear of him being claimed.

The players rejected the owners last offer.

Bettman and a bunch of highly successful business men aren't going to negotiate against themselves.

Evidently someone told Don Fehr and Co. that time was his allie....
- Al

Apparently they will continue to do so........ That is what happens when you try to bully the other side, you know you have a lot of room to make "concessions".

I think this latest offer from the owners is more of a face saving move than anything else. They know the PA won't accept and that they'll counter with an offer that isn't remotely close to what the owners are willing to give. This way the owners can cancel the remaining games and tell the fans that they tried but the players weren't negotiating in good faith.
- DarthKane

Oh, that is likely the fallback.

That said, they would like nothing more than to cut their substantial losses right now. There is a prevalent school of thought today that this might be the best deal the players will get.

Fehr's position going to court is not as strong as it was in baseball. Further, he stands a very good chance of losing the support of the rank and file..

Know when to hold em and when to fold em.

Apparently they will continue to do so........ That is what happens when you try to bully the other side, you know you have a lot of room to make "concessions".
- golfingsince

I think it is safe to say Bettman is feeling some heat.

The players need to make this happen now because at some point the owners are better able to sacrifice the whole season.

It is all about timing...One way of the other something was going to be proposed before too long.

A 48 game schedule would need to happen soon.

I think it is safe to say Bettman is feeling some heat.

The players need to make this happen now because at some point the owners are better able to sacrifice the whole season.

It is all about timing...One way of the other something was going to be proposed before too long.

A 48 game schedule would need to happen soon.
- Al

I don't want Bettman to feel the heat, I want Fehr to start feeling it too. I feel that nether side is afraid to lose the season, but Fehr is more willing than Bettman to have the remainder of the games canceled.

I don't want Bettman to feel the heat, I want Fehr to start feeling it too. I feel that nether side is afraid to lose the season, but Fehr is more willing than Bettman to have the remainder of the games canceled.
- DarthKane

I think Fehr is wrong to drag this out but the owners are split up into different groups this time. From what I have heard there are many who want this over yesterday.

If this is going to end so a season can be played it has to happen real soon.

Looking at the option of a single buyout to become cap compliant in 2013-14, who would the Hawks buy out? The logical choice is Olesz. Me, I would buy out Crawford. But what really intrigues me would be buying out Hossa. Teams would have basically a 48 game span to take a look at who they would want to cut loose. Say Hossa has a noticeable decline to his game, whether because of age or the concussion, depending on what the buyout breakdown is, saving his $5M+ per year on the cap would be big. I love Hossa's play and hope he picks up where he left off, but what if.......?

Looking at the option of a single buyout to become cap compliant in 2013-14, who would the Hawks buy out? The logical choice is Olesz. Me, I would buy out Crawford. But what really intrigues me would be buying out Hossa. Teams would have basically a 48 game span to take a look at who they would want to cut loose. Say Hossa has a noticeable decline to his game, whether because of age or the concussion, depending on what the buyout breakdown is, saving his $5M+ per year on the cap would be big. I love Hossa's play and hope he picks up where he left off, but what if.......?
- hawks2010

If I"m Fehr I try to get the cap for 2013-14 not to plunge to $60 mill all at once.
It's going to be a big challenge for many teams...

Looking at the option of a single buyout to become cap compliant in 2013-14, who would the Hawks buy out? The logical choice is Olesz. Me, I would buy out Crawford. But what really intrigues me would be buying out Hossa. Teams would have basically a 48 game span to take a look at who they would want to cut loose. Say Hossa has a noticeable decline to his game, whether because of age or the concussion, depending on what the buyout breakdown is, saving his $5M+ per year on the cap would be big. I love Hossa's play and hope he picks up where he left off, but what if.......?
- hawks2010

This is an interesting point. Hossa's contract is long, but barring any significant injury I think he has a lot of hockey let in him. Also, I don't think we have enough depth at forward to let Hossa go for nothing, not unless there is a plan to get somebody to replace him. Even then what's the point because you'll be looking at a similar cap hit. For this reason and others I say Hossa stays.

Crawford has only 1 more year left after this season, his cap hit isn't terrible. I think Crawford could be dealt or be a back-up if needed. So I think Crawford stays.

Olesz is a good option to buy out, the Hawks are getting zero value at the NHL level from him. I know they hoped Olesz could provide some quality depth on the 3rd line but that hasn't happened (for whatever reason). I think there's a good chance Olesz gets bought out.

Frolik could get bought out if Olesz wasn't already on the team. Frolik may deserve a buy out, but not as much as Olesz. Frolik stays or gets traded.

That leaves my #1 choice for a buyout - Steve Montador. Not including this season Olesz has $3.125 million (over 1 year) left on his contract, while Monty has $5.5 million (over 2 years). At best Montador is a 3rd pairing defenseman, and Brookbank can replace him for at least next season.

If I"m Fehr I try to get the cap for 2013-14 not to plunge to $60 mill all at once.
It's going to be a big challenge for many teams...
- Al

If half the teams have to shed, say, $10MM in salary to get to a $60MM cap - and they can't bury guys in other leagues any more - how are they going to do it? Not all of them are going to be able to dump enough salaries to other teams.

What happens (even now) if the can't get below the cap?