But Fehr got them an extra $300 million in transition money.

It was all worth it.
- Atomic Wedgie

Makes sense.... The players are going to be the clear winners of the lock out.

The NHLPA needs to learn basic math. They have given up over a billion dollars in lost salary already this year.
- RichardHertz

I'm quite sure the NHLPA is aware of what they've given up in lost salary this year.

I must confess that at this point, I have suspicions that MJL is connected to the NHLPA in some way.

Who else would devote so much time, and drink so much Kool-aid?
- Atomic Wedgie

I'm available at any time for to discuss any statement I've made. And you can show how I drink so much Kool-aid.

I'm quite sure the NHLPA is aware of what they've given up in lost salary this year.
- MJL

They weren't in the last lockout.

Just ask Jeff O'Neill.

Or JR.

Or Modano.

I'm available at any time for to discuss any statement I've made. And you can show how I drink so much Kool-aid.
- MJL

That's what makes this so sad.

They weren't in the last lockout.

Just ask Jeff O'Neill.

Or JR.

Or Modano.
- Atomic Wedgie

3 players opinion out of how many? How about we just ask Ray Whitney. Who has been through 3 lockouts and a players strike. There is flip of the coin for everythng.

That's what makes this so sad.
- Atomic Wedgie

You're right there with me!

I'm quite sure the NHLPA is aware of what they've given up in lost salary this year.
- MJL

And like you, something still hasn't clicked in their heads to figure out what reality is.

I am starting to think you are in the same bagel union as Kramer from Seinfeld.

The reality of the situation is that each day that passes, players miss pay days..lost revenue. At the same time teams make no money...smaller pool of funds...and worse yet, is that the sponsors and fans pull back support...thus again hurting revenue pool. Plus..the longer you stay out, the more ground you have to make up on the diminished revenues.

You can make all the points you want, even valid ones about players rights to bargain and ask for concessions etc...but in the end...at this point, they lose more on the above mentioned than on the value of any gains/concessions they may even get. That is what most of us are pointing out. Like it or not, the owners provide the forum for these guys to market their talents. Also, owners do not get to go into the pockets of players for their endorsement deals either...

I must confess that at this point, I have suspicions that MJL is connected to the NHLPA in some way.

Who else would devote so much time, and drink so much Kool-aid?
- Atomic Wedgie

I actually believe that he is Alan Walsh at this point.

3 players opinion out of how many? How about we just ask Ray Whitney. Who has been through 3 lockouts and a players strike. There is flip of the coin for everythng.
- MJL

In fact, they were so happy with the result of the last lockout, they extended Bob Goodenow and gave him a raise.

And like you, something still hasn't clicked in their heads to figure out what reality is.

I am starting to think you are in the same bagel union as Kramer from Seinfeld.

The reality of the situation is that each day that passes, players miss pay days..lost revenue. At the same time teams make no money...smaller pool of funds...and worse yet, is that the sponsors and fans pull back support...thus again hurting revenue pool. Plus..the longer you stay out, the more ground you have to make up on the diminished revenues.

You can make all the points you want, even valid ones about players rights to bargain and ask for concessions etc...but in the end...at this point, they lose more on the above mentioned than on the value of any gains/concessions they may even get. That is what most of us are pointing out. Like it or not, the owners proved the forum for these guys to market their talents. Also, owners do not get to go into the pockets of players for their endorsement deals either...
- TrueGrit

The players are willing to lose paychecks this Season to stand up for their rights. What many can't fathom, is that this isn't just for this year. This is for the future. And it could have an affect way down the line. And most of these players probably won't be around to gain from it. But they're willing to do so to put a stop to the Owners trying to take more and more from them every time the Owners screw up. Right or wrong that is how they feel.

And there's a bunch of income that the Owners make that doesn't go into HRR also.

I actually believe that he is Alan Walsh at this point.
- longbottom

So far I've been Eklund, various players, and now Allan Walsh. You have no idea what you beleive.

You're right there with me!
- MJL

You have 33 of the 136 posts in this thread.

Don't lump me in with your sad cry for attention.

Well I see everyone still arguing with the same old PA stooges that are being paid to be here to counter the fans arguements.

MJL, yttrohs, Canada Cup, tuna...idiots.

All they ever come back with is that the NHL is not "negotiating". Because to them they think "negotiating" means that if one side gives something up, the other side gets something in their favor...

Sorry, but in the real world, that is not the case.

Just ask the Auto workers union, or the teachers, or the nurses, or the flight attendent, or the hostess workers....and on. Economic times change. Its a fact. Costs are up on everything, prices are being challenged through cheaper competitive options. Profits are down and that means concessions...not necessarily give and take...concessions in order to keep the business healthy and keep people employed. That is what is going on here. The NHL did not get "everything" they wanted in the last CBA despite what some say. But they got a lot, so they gave some back to soften the blow. This time around its only minor tweaks. But the PA doesnt want to give up anything. Spoiled babies.

They need to realize they are not above everyone else. They are not hero's or gods that they think they are. They are hockey players being paid MILLIONS of dollars to play a game. Quit the whining and female doging, make a deal, and get back on the ice playing.

Period.

MJL, yttrohs, tuna, all the PA stooges et al...can go suck it!

One of the few bright spots for me this lockout has been your articles Richard. When it comes to off-ice stuff you are a great writer.

3 players opinion out of how many? How about we just ask Ray Whitney. Who has been through 3 lockouts and a players strike. There is flip of the coin for everythng.
- MJL

Add Craig Simpson who has basically said the players will end up never recovering the lost revenus at this point. Simpson BTW was the last 50 goal scorer for the Oilers and was in the Discussion for the NHLPA in the 94-95 lock-out, so not a scrub.
How come the people you mention as just being 3 players out of how many just happen to be some of the higher profile players from last lock-out. Why hasn't anyone let the younger players talk or the ones that will not be here when this lock-out ends( other than Haisey). Why don't we ask them if this deal/non deal worth it?
Why doesn't someone ask the players who are in the last year of their multimillion dollar deals. Why aren't they the one behing Fehr on the stage?
So much bad Karma happening in the NHLPA that we actually don't get to see yet.

Add Craig Simpson who has basically said the players will end up never recovering the lost revenus at this point. Simpson BTW was the last 50 goal scorer for the Oilers and was in the Discussion for the NHLPA in the 94-95 lock-out, so not a scrub.
How come the people you mention as just being 3 players out of how many just happen to be some of the higher profile players from last lock-out. Why hasn't anyone let the younger players talk or the ones that will not be here when this lock-out ends( other than Haisey). Why don't we ask them if this deal/non deal worth it?
Why doesn't someone ask the players who are in the last year of their multimillion dollar deals. Why aren't they the one behing Fehr on the stage?
So much bad Karma happening in the NHLPA that we actually don't get to see yet.
- longbottom

Why bother even trying to reason? Suggesting that the players were happy with the result of the last lockout, and the money they lost from holding out, is patently absurd. They fired the guy responsible for it in short order.

And now they’re going down the same road.

The players are willing to lose paychecks this Season to stand up for their rights. What many can't fathom, is that this isn't just for this year. This is for the future. And it could have an affect way down the line. And most of these players probably won't be around to gain from it. But they're willing to do so to put a stop to the Owners trying to take more and more from them every time the Owners screw up. Right or wrong that is how they feel.

And there's a bunch of income that the Owners make that doesn't go into HRR also.
- MJL

That I will agree with, but nobody has articulated and many people more versed in sports, for example, Glen Healey, who used to work with PA in past lock outs, can not understand what these guys are holding out for.

Contract term length and now a buyout provision are the big sticking points? Seems crazy that these things are worth losing income ...a year of playing.

You are right, they can feel how they want....but it is time to start thinking and not feeling...get the emotion out and get back to work and feel blessed you get to make any money doing what you love.

So far I've been Eklund, various players, and now Allan Walsh. You have no idea what you beleive.
- MJL

Wow quite a comeback.
Telling me I have no idea what I believe.
Pretty arrogant.
Since I am not discussing this with Ecklund
I am pretty sure your not eck.
I once thought you were a player, then noticed
you argue w/o any thought to what he is saying.
I have a basic faith mot to all players would have
thought of how this all shakes out in the end and now realising
that they will never recover from this.
Leaving only Walsh The only person arrogant enough to
believe everything he says.
Hello mr Walsh (yes the mr is little out of lack of respect)
What the hell are you thinking?

That I will agree with, but nobody has articulated and many people more versed in sports, for example, Glen Healey, who used to work with PA in past lock outs, can not understand what these guys are holding out for.

Contract term length and now a buyout provision are the big sticking points? Seems crazy that these things are worth losing income ...a year of playing.

You are right, they can feel how they want....but it is time to start thinking and not feeling...get the emotion out and get back to work and feel blessed you get to make any money doing what you love.
- TrueGrit

Glen Healey has been really interesting to listen to. He was so incredibly one-sided in the last lockout, it wasn't worth my while to listen to him.

And then he worked for the NHLPA for a little over a year, before being forced out.

It completely changed his perspective. He's now not afraid to criticize the players' side.

So far I've been Eklund, various players, and now Allan Walsh. You have no idea what you beleive.
- MJL

After rereading I have never said you were Ecklund Check it out.
I have in fact said you might be a player(never once mentioning names)
I actually do happen to believe you just might be Walsh.
The only one arrogant enough to believe the garbage the types/ writes/ say.

OK. Tell me what concessions the owners have made? All that has happened is that the players have allowed the percentage to go from 57 to 50 %. A huge win for the owners.........and they have given nothing back. i'd tell them to stuff it 2.
- yttrohs

they don't have to make any because........ THEY ARE THE OWNERS!!!!! this is not a deal between two equal parties, like selling your house or business. The owners have stated that they need these conditions before they are willing to run their own businesses. Fehr has been saying 'you'll run your business the way I tell you to'. this is not about 'fair' and 'give and take'. this is about reality (owners tell employees how it is). this is not an essential service, so players better snap out of their dream world (where owners owe them a league to run) and realize they are not in power.

take it or leave it. the scary thing is that Fehr has these idiots so brainwashed that they continued to hold out for a shorter CBA because it isn't fair to 12 years olds that will be subject this deal. what a f--king joke.

my label for hockey players until they prove otherwise: they are dumbest athletes on earth.

Glen Healey has been really interesting to listen to. He was so incredibly one-sided in the last lockout, it wasn't worth my while to listen to him.

And then he worked for the NHLPA for a little over a year, before being forced out.

It completely changed his perspective. He's now not afraid to criticize the players' side.
- Atomic Wedgie

Obviously as fans we operate out of some ignorance, but like all detectives we can gather most of the facts with logic and reason. And naturally we form our own opinions and theory's.

Yesterday when I heard him calmly and with facts lay out his case and opinion, it validated much of what I thought was happening and probably a lot of others.

I played a little minor league baseball and spent time as a small time agent and have friends that are former big leaguers, what Healey and others speculated of yesterday resonated, and that is many players do not have a clue about what is going on and there is strong likelihood that many of them have been pawned by their leadership. Kind of like low information voters here in the U.S.

I can't help but think that Crosby was played as a huge pawn after he got together with the Penguins owner and they started laying out a realistic framework for resolving things. Then, not Crosby's fault, last minute Fehr steps in to take what had been done as agreed upon and then set about to take more. That group of moderate owners believed they were coming to agreements on things with binding power..to only have them duped by more demands....

Obviously as fans we operate out of some ignorance, but like all detectives we can gather most of the facts with logic and reason. And naturally we form our own opinions and theory's.

Yesterday when I heard him calmly and with facts lay out his case and opinion, it validated much of what I thought was happening and probably a lot of others.

I played a little minor league baseball and spent time as a small time agent and have friends that are former big leaguers, what Healey and others speculated of yesterday resonated, and that is many players do not have a clue about what is going on and there is strong likelihood that many of them have been pawned by their leadership. Kind of like low information voters here in the U.S.

I can't help but think that Crosby was played as a huge pawn after he got together with the Penguins owner and they started laying out a realistic framework for resolving things.
- TrueGrit

Then, not Crosby's fault, last minute Fehr steps in to take what had been done as agreed upon and then set about to take more.

That group of moderate owners believed they were coming to agreements on things with binding power..to only have them duped by more demands....

that play by Fehr is where I, and many fans, lost support for the players. this should have been settled the first week of December. And, it is the reason the owners have stopped negotiating. They know that Fehr will just keep asking for more.

Obviously as fans we operate out of some ignorance, but like all detectives we can gather most of the facts with logic and reason. And naturally we form our own opinions and theory's.

Yesterday when I heard him calmly and with facts lay out his case and opinion, it validated much of what I thought was happening and probably a lot of others.

I played a little minor league baseball and spent time as a small time agent and have friends that are former big leaguers, what Healey and others speculated of yesterday resonated, and that is many players do not have a clue about what is going on and there is strong likelihood that many of them have been pawned by their leadership. Kind of like low information voters here in the U.S.

I can't help but think that Crosby was played as a huge pawn after he got together with the Penguins owner and they started laying out a realistic framework for resolving things. Then, not Crosby's fault, last minute Fehr steps in to take what had been done as agreed upon and then set about to take more. That group of moderate owners believed they were coming to agreements on things with binding power..to only have them duped by more demands....
- TrueGrit

Where did you hear Healey speak?

I'd love to hear the interview.