I know who you voted for in the last election. You either can't see it or do not want to ...it is spelled out.
- TrueGrit

No it isn't spelled out at all.

The player haven't kept changing what they want. The players are willing to move towards 50/50. They want Contracts honored. And they want to keep some of the contract concessions they got in the last CBA. It hasn't changed.
The problem is that the Owners can't get what they want. That's why there isn't a deal. They aren't willing to give anything to the players.
- MJL

Are you friggin kidding me?? Where did the $50 million request come from for their pension?? That was added only during that last serious bargaining session?? It was never brought up EVER before that!!!

So again...what is it the players want?? Contracts honoured...done.

So what else is there that they want? Oh wait...we really don't know...Neither do you....

Of course not? Then how do you explain that NHL team's franchise value is growing significantly every year? The Coyotes are probably the franchise that is struggling the most. Yet the franchise value has increased by 69% over the last decade.
- MJL

None of that is relevant, what is relevant is what somebody will pony up for a team. Maybe a simpler way of explaining this, is would you buy a business, commit millions of dollars when you know that you have to give 57 percent of all revenues, off the top, to your employees, no matter how bad the economy may be or what other problems may exist? It was over 70 percent before the 2004 lockout.

No it isn't spelled out at all.
- MJL

I'm actually going to go with MJL on this....

Just because he favors the players here, it has NOTHING to do with the election here in the US. Any discussion on politics beyond hockey, IMHO, should be left off these boards!!!

Are you friggin kidding me?? Where did the $50 million request come from for their pension?? That was added only during that last serious bargaining session?? It was never brought up EVER before that!!!

So again...what is it the players want?? Contracts honoured...done.

So what else is there that they want? Oh wait...we really don't know...Neither do you....
- cdninatl

Make Whole does not cover player contracts completely. And the 50M going to the players pension fund was the League's idea.

Yes we do know what the players want. They want longer contract term.

I'm actually going to go with MJL on this....

Just because he favors the players here, it has NOTHING to do with the election here in the US. Any discussion on politics beyond hockey, IMHO, should be left off these boards!!!
- cdninatl

Fair enough politically, but the facts remain the same. Without a healthy league, players do not have jobs. If you or anyone can not get that logically, then this is fruitless.

None of that is relevant, what is relevant is what somebody will pony up for a team. Maybe a simpler way of explaining this, is would you buy a business, commit millions of dollars when you know that you have to give 57 percent of all revenues, off the top, to your employees, no matter how bad the economy may be or what other problems may exist? It was over 70 percent before the 2004 lockout.
- TrueGrit

So now you're changing your story. I asked you if a franchise value would go up if they were losing millions every year. And you responded of course not.

Fair enough politically, but the facts remain the same. Without a healthy league, players do not have jobs. If you or anyone can not get that logically, then this is fruitless.
- TrueGrit

Players want a healthy League also. That's why they're willing to take a lesser share of revenue going forward. Do you really believe that what the owners are asking for from the players does that? That the CBA that the Owners want makes Phoenix and Columbus healthy franchises?


Here's an article for you to read.

http://business.time.com/...y-behind-the-nhl-lockout/

So now you're changing your story. I asked you if a franchise value would go up if they were losing millions every year. And you responded of course not.
- MJL

What is franchise value based on? Lay out the metrics? I can tell you I am not selling my Mike Bossy rookie card for less than a thousand. It does not mean that is what it is worth.

Anyways, it was fun bantering...heading to sleep here.

What is franchise value based on? Lay out the metrics? I can tell you I am not selling my Mike Bossy rookie card for less than a thousand. It does not mean that is what it is worth.

Anyways, it was fun bantering...heading to sleep here.
- TrueGrit

I thought since you worked in wealth management you would know the answer to that. Have a good night.

Make Whole does not cover player contracts completely. And the 50M going to the players pension fund was the League's idea.

Yes we do know what the players want. They want longer contract term.
- MJL

How long?? No one knows? And how should it be handled??

I'll be honest, I have no problem with long term deals. Just make the each year dollars = cap hit for that year. But I don't think the owners are quite that willing to do something so simple and obvious....

How long?? No one knows? And how should it be handled??

I'll be honest, I have no problem with long term deals. Just make the each year dollars = cap hit for that year. But I don't think the owners are quite that willing to do something so simple and obvious....
- cdninatl

I don't know. The Owners want a 5 year term limit. The players countered with 8. So is there a middle ground there?

I don't know. The Owners want a 5 year term limit. The players countered with 8. So is there a middle ground there?
- MJL

See...between you and me...we could work this crap out!!!

See...between you and me...we could work this crap out!!!
- cdninatl

All I know is that with what is left to figure out between the two sides. I can't believe either side would be willing to lose a Season over it. It would be foolish for everyone involved.

All I know is that with what is left to figure out between the two sides. I can't believe either side would be willing to lose a Season over it. It would be foolish for everyone involved.
- MJL

Yo MJL... What's up home slice?

Make Whole does not cover player contracts completely. And the 50M going to the players pension fund was the League's idea.

Yes we do know what the players want. They want longer contract term.
- MJL

89 of 750+ players are on deals longer than five years, but they'll hold out for this? The better players in the league will always get their money.

All I know is that with what is left to figure out between the two sides. I can't believe either side would be willing to lose a Season over it. It would be foolish for everyone involved.
- MJL

Totally agree with you man!!

If there's one thing I do believe in though, is that the egos involved are willing to kill a season. If nothing else than to attempt to try to break the other guy.

Your either a player or a shill. Fact: The NHL and NHLPA negotiated a 50 - 50 split. The terms where on the table on the five important points that the NHL had to have, to make it work. The NHL backed away on allot of the arbitration items and the make whole provision actually bumped up the players share to 55% for this year. The 100 million dollar kicker was for the final ratification. That slimeball Fehr decided to do an end run and take the final cash, then try to change the terms of the agreed offer.

On the topic of this negotiation, where is it set in print that any player, agent or executive of the NHLPA is considered any part of being an owner in this NHL business? The players are the employees of the NHL, not part owners. The player agents are employees of the players and the league executives are also employees of the players. So this idea of calling the shots, by the players, rubs me the wrong way. This idea of the players saying they gave back and lost money is a misnomer, as their salaries actually increased by 80%, since the ratification of the last CBA.

Fact, a full one third of NHL teams lost money last year. Fact a full one third of NHL teams broke even last year. Fact: The top 8 teams made money and were forced to Revenue Share, to keep the weak teams afloat and pay these same ungrateful players on money losing franchises. Fact: There is very little loyalty from any of the NHL players towards the franchises that pay their salaries and made them rich. Fact: Every time I see a Weber, Suter, Parise, Nash, Richards, etc. bail on the franchises that made them rich, the more I want them to decertify, lose their contract status and take it in the a$$! This players union has gotten too big and powerful for the good of the game. It needs to go down hard and stay down.
- PrinceLH

Fact: Bears eat beats.

It's mother (frank)ing "losing" not mother (frank)ing "loosing"

Fact: Bears eat beats.
- Deadmau55

Fiction: The national animal in Australia is the Penguin.

It's mother (frank)ing "losing" not mother (frank)ing "loosing"
- laughs2907

I'm loosing my mind

Fiction: The national animal in Australia is the Penguin.
- james

Bears. Beats. Battlestar Galactica.

No that's not bad faith. That is negotiating. What's bad faith is telling the players that if you bring your Executive Director back into the process, then the deal is off the table.
Offering counter proposals and trying to get a better deal is not bush league. It is negotiating. The players are trying to get the most for anything? They're the only side doing any giving.
- MJL

When the negotiations went sour, after the NHL put the 100 million on the table, the five moderate owners packed up and left town. If the NHL was negotiating in bad faith, it would have been hawks in the room, not moderate owners. The reason for the owners like Larry Tanenbaum and Ron Burkle being there to make the final arrangements to put the proper face on the end of the lockout. Once that money hit the table, there was a deal. It was Fehr who decided to do the bait and switch at the last second. Bad faith bargaining at it's worst! His press conference was disingenuous and the Bettman press conference seemed like it crackled with true emotion. I don't blame the NHL for saying no more to this kind of negotiating. From that point forward, the owners have stiffened their resolve and I believe them, if they decide to let the rest of the season go. If it pissed me off, as a fan, then it must have really pissed off the owners to put an end to this blackmail.

From this point forward, I don't want a deal. I'm so pissed at the players union, that I want decertification and I want them to take a hard fall. They deserve what they have coming.

It's mother (frank)ing "losing" not mother (frank)ing "loosing"
- laughs2907

What's up

Bears. Beats. Battlestar Galactica.
- Deadmau55

Fact: Fehr pounds his hound!