We need 6 teams for year 1. is that not how it is done? Now I think we could go 12 to 14.

Vancouver
Edmonton
Calgary
Toronto
Montreal

Those should be shoo-ins, right?

Ottawa, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Windsor and Quebec City to follow.

New York
Detroit
Boston
Chicago

Again.... pretty certain a market is there.

LA, Minni, Philly , Phoen.... opps.... nope, not there.... to follow

Seattle, Portland could finally be added.

So 9 Markets that could start and 10 more open for expansion teh following year but the league will be maximized at 16 until stable.

Maybe we kick Boston out just for their current owner....


Just imagine...

1. No on ice or board advertising
2. No composite sticks
3. No Helmets (Won;t need em, no one has body armour and single piece wooden sticks keep the shot at a realistic pace)
4. No body armour
5. No Trapizoid
6. No 3 point games
7. No Instigator
8. Realistic suspensions

Did I miss anything?

When you think about it.... holy crap is the current league a crappy mess. It's a blood sport. No skill players necessary.
- Beatle_john

You are pretty naive not having Buffalo in there.

Ottawa would be a shoe-in over Edmonton. London or Kitchener/Waterloo deserve a team before Windsor.. Markham is the obvious choice. Also Buffalo is stable so they can stay. A wooden stick league is just dumb. Almost as dumb as no helmets. 5-8 i agree with. And less advertisements along the boards would be nice. The game isn't a mess right now. I think the game is fine, but like all sports i think the ref has too much say in the final outcome of the game. There is nothing more annoying than knowing that your team is about to get a penalty because the ref made a blown call earlier.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

??

edmonton is more profitable than the senators. even after finishing in the bottom 2 for 3 years.

Same reason Baseball does not allow alluminum bats. It is artificial. Single piece sticks were good enough for 66 odd years.

This slows down the puck to a realistic speed, met by realistic goalie equipment and all done without a helmet as sticks will be down due to realistic suspensions for even minor infractions and just imagine how cool Guy Lafluer was when he skated... not so much in a helmet. You will create amazing players and personalities right away.
- Beatle_john

we dont need any rule in place thats gonna make it TOUGHER to score goals.
so many better players, bigger guys, advanced defensive schemes etc.

not a good idea.

unless of course u also make the net bigger or decrease goalie equipment size substancially.

offence sells

The players are voting today...Please pray for them...

FIRST!!!














Any Habs rumours?!?














Nuff said

i was in a Canadian Tire today buying some lights and noticed all the Canuck stuff they had. It was all over the place... wierd stuff like Christmas Stockings with logos on them and stuff like that (By the way, happy birthday Jesus, to celebrate I bought a stocking from a corporation that..... oh I digress)

If you looked around the store, every other aisle as picked through and many spots empty.

The manager happened to be right there so I just casually asked if the Canuck stuff would go on sale soon. He said that it better. Not only is no one buying it but he often hears people comment on how they will never buy that stuff again.

Interesting.

Anyways... no merch, no way.
- Beatle_john

Please share more of these.

I'm not sure how you consider the one sport dead last in revenue and profit out of the 3 major sports you have listed would have the hardest time losing a season.

The other sports owners ALL make money hand over fist. The majority of NHL owners barely turn a profit substantial enough to get them out of the red. How are the majority of those owners going to be so bad off if they actually lose less by forgoing the season?
- MnGump

Each team has fixed costs that they will still pay out regardless of whether they play a game. Without any revenue coming in they will lose a ton of cash.

What a bunch of bs. I wonder how many concussions Johnny Bower got while playing for $6k a year against the likes of JFJ Sr and working in a foundry in the off season. Anyway, I play real hockey. I am a 6'5" power forward so I don't have to worry about this horse hockey like the rest of you.

Folks, re-read this post.

I read through hundreds of comments on various sites regarding the lockout, and like I see on most subjects, there are precious few who really 'get' what the real issues are, at their core. This guy gets it.

Reading and hearing the players' 'thoughts', and it becomes clear that this has become a personal 'battle' for them. It's an ego thing, plain and simple. Furthermore, they are individuals who have a very black and white, 'give up' or 'prevail' mindset. Bettman is their 'opponent'. And along with an irrational hatred for him, they have been brainwashed by their cult leader, Donald Fehr.

No different from past cult leaders like Jim Jones or David Koresh, Donald cleverly tells the players what they want to hear, and frames the negotiations into a battle between good vs. evil. The players are the apostles, and Bettman is Satan.

So, what's the solution? Unfortunately, there isn't one. We can hope the intelligent minority in the PA will persuade the cult followers to listen to reason, but what's the likelihood that will work? You can't reason with bulls. Stupidity & stubbornness may be a perfect recipe for a 3rd line hockey player, but it makes for a terrible business person.
- Turkmenbashy

bang on bro. Bettman deserves a good portion of the blame, too. rightly or wrongly, he makes the PA lose their minds. his scortched earth tactics and just his condescending tone drives them to insanity. both sides are to blame for this monstrosity of a league.

the NHL deserves to die and these clowns deserve to go down in history as the idiots who killed it. Crosby can forget the golden goal. he will be the symbol of the generation that killed the game for personal gain.

What a bunch of bs. I wonder how many concussions Johnny Bower got while playing for $6k a year against the likes of JFJ Sr and working in a foundry in the off season. Anyway, I play real hockey. I am a 6'5" power forward so I don't have to worry about this horse hockey like the rest of you.
- Skalapy

Folks, re-read this post.

I read through hundreds of comments on various sites regarding the lockout, and like I see on most subjects, there are precious few who really 'get' what the real issues are, at their core. This guy gets it.

Reading and hearing the players' 'thoughts', and it becomes clear that this has become a personal 'battle' for them. It's an ego thing, plain and simple. Furthermore, they are individuals who have a very black and white, 'give up' or 'prevail' mindset. Bettman is their 'opponent'. And along with an irrational hatred for him, they have been brainwashed by their cult leader, Donald Fehr.

No different from past cult leaders like Jim Jones or David Koresh, Donald cleverly tells the players what they want to hear, and frames the negotiations into a battle between good vs. evil. The players are the apostles, and Bettman is Satan.

So, what's the solution? Unfortunately, there isn't one. We can hope the intelligent minority in the PA will persuade the cult followers to listen to reason, but what's the likelihood that will work? You can't reason with bulls. Stupidity & stubbornness may be a perfect recipe for a 3rd line hockey player, but it makes for a terrible business person.
- Turkmenbashy

Well done. And no I didn't think you were accusing Fehr of being a sociopath like Jim Jones either (just like when someone says "drink the punch" they aren't suggesting that you literally commit suicide).

Yesterday I heard the song Cult of Personality on the radio. Thinking about the lyrics vis a vis your comments, there are interesting parallels.

yes, they did settle. but, generally speaking, NFL and NBA players come from poorer socio-economic backgrounds than that of NHL players. NHLers, generally speaking, are rich kids. they feel more entitled and are much more spoiled. they want their way and will go down kicking and screaming. these are the kids that think they are above their bosses. they don't even understand the employer/employee relationship. these clowns think it is unfair for their employers to cut their wages. hello!!! this isn't about fair, and if you weren't such a bunch of spoiled brats, you'd understand that.

I will be stunned if these players come to their senses and choose to take a decent deal and collect 6 pay checks over 'beating Bettman'. they will choose to kill the season because they can't live with 5 year contracts and a 10 year CBA (oh, the horrors), and above all, they can't let that little nerd beat them.
- seanjohn667

Dude, this is an awesome bit of insight. Considering that generation's general sense of entitlement and ego-centricity, we might be in for a long battle.

bang on bro. Bettman deserves a good portion of the blame, too. rightly or wrongly, he makes the PA lose their minds. his scortched earth tactics and just his condescending tone drives them to insanity. both sides are to blame for this monstrosity of a league.

the NHL deserves to die and these clowns deserve to go down in history as the idiots who killed it. Crosby can forget the golden goal. he will be the symbol of the generation that killed the game for personal gain.
- seanjohn667

Agreed that Bettman and the owners deserve a share of the blame. But I also can't help but wonder whether the shock and awe tactic of the first proposal was simply a preemptive strike solely because of Fehr's hardline reputation.

Ironically, my opinion of Bettman has (very) slightly increased over the last several weeks. Let's face it, the general dislike fans hae for Bettman is in large part due to his perceived apathy towards the game in general. Administrators are always reviled anyway, but even more so when they are believed to have no real interest in the thing they are adminstering.

So when Bettman showed a little emotion my respect increased a bit.

I have said it since the start....

Players are the ones holding this up.

Agreed that Bettman and the owners deserve a share of the blame. But I also can't help but wonder whether the shock and awe tactic of the first proposal was simply a preemptive strike solely because of Fehr's hardline reputation.

Ironically, my opinion of Bettman has (very) slightly increased over the last several weeks. Let's face it, the general dislike fans hae for Bettman is in large part due to his perceived apathy towards the game in general. Administrators are always reviled anyway, but even more so when they are believed to have no real interest in the thing they are adminstering.

So when Bettman showed a little emotion my respect increased a bit.
- TheGreat28

Bettman is nothing more than a hardline voice of the owners. I think people confuse their dislike of Bettman's demeanour vs him. I don't blame the owners one bit.... it's their own money funding the whole damn operation.

Agreed that Bettman and the owners deserve a share of the blame. But I also can't help but wonder whether the shock and awe tactic of the first proposal was simply a preemptive strike solely because of Fehr's hardline reputation.

Ironically, my opinion of Bettman has (very) slightly increased over the last several weeks. Let's face it, the general dislike fans hae for Bettman is in large part due to his perceived apathy towards the game in general. Administrators are always reviled anyway, but even more so when they are believed to have no real interest in the thing they are adminstering.

So when Bettman showed a little emotion my respect increased a bit.
- TheGreat28

I am on the side of the owners because they are the employers - period. Players you are not negotiating off of your last deal you are negotiating based on economics.

However, it would have been nice for the owners to set a drop dead date on Oct 1st or something like that. That might have started the process much earlier. This negotiation has been based on the final date for a while. Both parties are willing to push this to the limit and if the Owners knew that then maybe we'd be watching NHL hockey and they would be getting their full revenue. I dunno

Everyone should just ignore this negotiation until the new year.

This vote will be a referendum on Fehrs approach. Bettman has been calling on Fehr to take their proposals to the membership for a vote and instead Fehr is seekingva renewed mandate to play hardball. The vote will determine how things roll. Interesting that Bettman saying all contracts void if they go DOI. He knows that owners will have to bend ifvFehr gets s good vote. Risks are too high for owners if we go down this road.

This vote will be a referendum on Fehrs approach. Bettman has been calling on Fehr to take their proposals to the membership for a vote and instead Fehr is seekingva renewed mandate to play hardball. The vote will determine how things roll. Interesting that Bettman saying all contracts void if they go DOI. He knows that owners will have to bend ifvFehr gets s good vote. Risks are too high for owners if we go down this road.
- Canada Cup

u think the players will win the legal battle?

Players are now negotiating in bad faith for a new CBA

So, maybe I am oversimplifying it (probably am), but here it goes.

So the ABSOLUTE worst case scenario that the owners could possibly see is if the courts sided with the NHLPA and the owners ordered to pay out triple the salary? So real quick numbers is around $70.2 million x 30 teams x 3 = $6.32 billion..........Yes this is a ton of money almost inconceivable. Breaking it down to 30 teams, that is around $210.6 million per owner. Now granted I know I don't have that type of money, but some of these owners do.

So ok, the NHL "loses" and each owner loses $210 million. Then all the players are jumping around "ya we won, we stuck it to them, we're number one", yadda, yadda, yadda. The league collapses and is defunct.

Two years from now the dust settles and the owners start a new league, new team cap is $10 million each, that's it, NOTHING more. No matter what, there are going to be players willing to play this game for that fraction, if not feel free to go to another league and there will be SOMEONE behind you knocking at the door willing to play in this new one.

So the first couple years are rocky, HRR is way down due to all the fan bitterness or whatever, but a couple years after that it starts going up again. Say we go 10 years at HRR $2 billion. So ($2 billion - ($10 million x 30 teams) x 10 years) = $17 billion. Take that divided by 30 teams = $566 million. SO ten years and the owners have doubled their "loss" to the NHLPA.

So, right now the players are fighting this good fight for the "future players" and not for themselves as they say. But if everything goes their way, they "win" this decertification process, this could plausibly happen and players salaries are a blip of what they use to be??

Again, I am probably way over simplifying all this and maybe its all wishful thinking too. But to me even the worst case scenario for the league could end up being the best thing for them at the same time.

Don't flame me for any errors here or oversimplifying it all. Its just a quick thought I had.

This vote will be a referendum on Fehrs approach. Bettman has been calling on Fehr to take their proposals to the membership for a vote and instead Fehr is seekingva renewed mandate to play hardball. The vote will determine how things roll. Interesting that Bettman saying all contracts void if they go DOI. He knows that owners will have to bend ifvFehr gets s good vote. Risks are too high for owners if we go down this road.
- Canada Cup

Unless the owners say eff u and cancel the season of course...
And also win any legal battle which from the facts at hand seems very likely.
The simple fact that the players have options to play elsewhere if they dont like the nhls proposals should be more than enough to squash any lawsuit.

The players are in so deep, they pretty much have to vote yes. A no would be the end of it most likely.

The owners hold the hammer, bettmans got his foot on fehrs throat. This is a desperate and probably completely futile act

We need 6 teams for year 1. is that not how it is done? Now I think we could go 12 to 14.

Vancouver
Edmonton
Calgary
Toronto
Montreal
- Beatle_John

Really, no Philly or Buffalo? Both have been stable and great hockey cities since they came into the league.

Yah as a matter of fact you are right... Neither Philly nor Buffalo should be on there which you can clearly see by the attendance for last season..

Ill make it easy for you but here are the top 5 plus Buffalo:

1. Chicago- Total: 882874, Avg of 21533
2. Montreal - Total: 872193, Avg of 21273
3. Philadelphia - 837754, Avg of 20433 (ahead of Ottawa, Calgary and Vancouver)
4. Detroit - 824706 , Avg of 20114
5. Toronto - 799786 , Avg of 19506
11. Buffalo - 760558, Avg of 18550 (ahead of Boston, NY Rangers, Edmonton and Winnipeg)


http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2012


That is ok though as I always laugh when someone suggests starting a new league.
Financially basically impossible, logistically basically impossible, from a marketing standpoint basically impossible but yah...

http://espn.go.com/nhl/

On another note if anyone wants to watch why we love the game\league the NHL network is showing the full Flyers vs Bruins 7 game comeback today.

They are just about to start the third period of the first game.

Teams who makes money will always make money, they will not be effected by this. The rest don't make squat or lose money. Those owners know they will get hit regardless. Get more cost certainty or why bother playing.
- BigStew

It's not just cost certainty that they need. They need to fix the real problems of why they're losing money. If only it were so simple to lower player costs and solve those issues.

I'm not sure how you consider the one sport dead last in revenue and profit out of the 3 major sports you have listed would have the hardest time losing a season.

The other sports owners ALL make money hand over fist. The majority of NHL owners barely turn a profit substantial enough to get them out of the red. How are the majority of those owners going to be so bad off if they actually lose less by forgoing the season?
- MnGump

So you think a lost Season is going to help Columbus grow their fan base, and fix all the problems that franchises like that have? There's a reason why teams are struggling. Why they aren't making money. Honestly, what is the goal of the NHL? To stagnate and not lose money? Or to grow, both for individual franchises and the League as a whole? What's likely to have more of an impact on the future of the League. The impact of a lost Season could have a lasting impact and set some franchises back years in their development. But yea, they saved some money this year! I'm amazed at some of the narrow mindedness of some.