So who else is stoked for the World Juniors?

Can we talk about how awesome Morgan Rielly is and how he and Hamilton are going to be a beast of a pairing.
- Leafs43

Be nice to watch some sort of meaningful hockey. Rielly and Dougie should be hell on blades.

Im curious to see how Yak and Nuge perform. Gotta be a good thing to have Nuge and Mackinnon rooming together.

So let me get your logic here.


If a team lost all games one year, finished last with 0 points....


Then the next year they won a bunch of games, but still finished last with say 60 points.


That team has not improved.

That's what you are saying is it?
- robin_steele264

What I am saying is that if you go from last in total points, to second last in total points, thats hardly an improvement or a justification that a team is on the right track. Them getting more points means little if all the teams around them got a similiar boost in points.

Dense indeed. Only in Edmonton is common sense on a mythical level as Unicorns and Leprechauns.

What I am saying is that if you go from last in total points, to second last in total points, thats hardly an improvement or a justification that a team is on the right track. Them getting more points means little if all the teams around them got a similiar boost in points.

Dense indeed. Only in Edmonton is common sense on mythical level as Unicorns and Leprechauns.
- systemtool

No, you're just mad that your point isn't all that valid. You're essentially plugging your ears and stomping your feet at this point. They have improved. Any fool should be able to see that.

Be nice to watch some sort of meaningful hockey. Rielly and Dougie should be hell on blades.

Im curious to see how Yak and Nuge perform. Gotta be a good thing to have Nuge and Mackinnon rooming together.
- sanfordnson

The way I see it RNH is by far the best forward at this tournament. Still surprised that both Mackinnon and Drouin made the team.

No, you're just mad that your point isn't all that valid. You're essentially plugging your ears and stomping your feet at this point. They have improved. Any fool should be able to see that.
- sanfordnson

Yes. They went from last to second last. Hopefully this year they can become one of the elite teams and finish 3rd last.

Stompin Tom Connors.

Anyways, jays trade. Something called baseball. You guys wouldnt know, its a small city thing.

Keep ridin the denial train folks, hope the future though is as bright as predicted!

Yes. They went from last to second last. Hopefully this year they can become one of the elite teams and finish 3rd last.

Stompin Tom Connors.

Anyways, jays trade. Something called baseball. You guys wouldnt know, its a small city thing.

Keep ridin the denial train folks, hope the future though is as bright as predicted!
- systemtool

keep plugging your ears and saying denial over and over again bro. that's your only hope it'll ever gain even a modicum of truth to it....

So who else is stoked for the World Juniors?

Can we talk about how awesome Morgan Rielly is and how he and Hamilton are going to be a beast of a pairing.
- Leafs43

im stoked.

rielly is sick. i just wonder how good our defence is gonna be beyond those 2. im no sold on subban either

What I am saying is that if you go from last in total points, to second last in total points, thats hardly an improvement or a justification that a team is on the right track. Them getting more points means little if all the teams around them got a similiar boost in points.

Dense indeed. Only in Edmonton is common sense on a mythical level as Unicorns and Leprechauns.
- systemtool

Yeah you are about as dense as it gets on this.

Do you understand the concept of a free market? The 3 or 4 people who are the best in the world at something have considerable market power. You deal with their agents if they say you deal with their agents.

Where does property of a team for life come from? I don't understand your points about free agents. Everybody is a free agent when their contract expire and teams cannot suggest compensation. That is collusion.

This is not a goodvsystem for most players but it is a great system for the best players.
- Canada Cup

You have to look at Major league soccer. They sign kids in their early teens and they become the clubs property. They are bought and sold, not traded.

keep plugging your ears and saying denial over and over again bro. that's your only hope it'll ever gain even a modicum of truth to it....
- hugefemale dog77

Beyond pathetic at this point.

I hope all these idiots end up playing in Siberia, flying around in those Russian death-traps.


Upshall, Clowe, Bissonette, Campoli and the like can all go start their own league!!!

You posted that every post I make is wrong. I made a post on the previous page concerning Cloutier's statement that St. Louis is being kept out of the process. So step up, back up your post. And tell me how I'm wrong!
- MJL

Your post is wrong because if you read it all he said St Luois is a moderate. Just because he was in one negotiation ( and one where the players and owners had a deal until Fehr (frank)ed it up) does not refute that. He has for the most part been kept out.

im stoked.

rielly is sick. i just wonder how good our defence is gonna be beyond those 2. im no sold on subban either
- hugefemale dog77

Subban scares me. For some reason I would rather have Binnington in net. Which is weird because I'm pretty sure he is the number 3 guy right now.

Subban scares me. For some reason I would rather have Binnington in net. Which is weird because I'm pretty sure he is the number 3 guy right now.
- Leafs43

i like binnington too.

i think we have russia and the americans in our group (along with the germans)..generally our toughest tests.
so not alot of time to have a weak game and recover for subban either

Your post is wrong because if you read it all he said St Luois is a moderate. Just because he was in one negotiation ( and one where the players and owners had a deal until Fehr (frank)ed it up) does not refute that. He has for the most part been kept out.
- Iggysbff

My post isn't wrong at all. What information can you or Cloutier provide that states that St Louis has for the most part been kept out of the process? I have direct and well documented evidence that St Louis has not been kept out of the process. I can provide links to back that up if necessary.

I'm awaiting the evidence to the contrary. And you're also wrong in that there was never a deal agreed upon in that Owner/player meeting.

This place is a (frank)ing cesspool.
- muffin_man

welcome to a clouts thread!!

Your post is wrong because if you read it all he said St Luois is a moderate. Just because he was in one negotiation ( and one where the players and owners had a deal until Fehr (frank)ed it up) does not refute that. He has for the most part been kept out.
- Iggysbff

Exactly!... That players/owners meeting was all about the moderates. They were allowed to get together, and by all acounts had a deal pretty much worked out.

I suspect though that Fehr planned all along to veto whatever deal got made at the last minute to try to either further extract what he can from league. Or as this convo suggests, maybe he's intentionally trying to blow it all up.

Either way the fact that St. Louis was there is irrelevent because that meeting was just about Fehr leading the moderates to believe that he was throwing them a bone. In fact if there's no evidence of St Louis being involved other than that meeting, than it probably eludes to Richard being right, than wrong.

If you don't think Fehr intentionally derailed this thing. Don't you think it's funny that when the whole deal from the leagues perspective was built around the 3 things that they needed from the PA. That Fehr would at the last minute refute all 3 of them. Just another way he guarantees that no deal would be signed,while trying to spin this thing to fans and more importantly to him, his own more moderate members, as it was once more all big bad Bettman's fault.

Exactly!... That players/owners meeting was all about the moderates. They were allowed to get together, and by all acounts had a deal pretty much worked out.

I suspect though that Fehr planned all along to veto whatever deal got made at the last minute to try to either further extract what he can from league. Or as this convo suggests, maybe he's intentionally trying to blow it all up.

Either way the fact that St. Louis was there is irrelevent because that meeting was just about Fehr leading the moderates to believe that he was throwing them a bone. In fact if there's no evidence of St Louis being involved other than that meeting, than it probably eludes to Richard being right, than wrong.

If you don't think Fehr intentionally derailed this thing. Don't you think it's funny that when the whole deal from the leagues perspective was built around the 3 things that they needed from the PA. That Fehr would at the last minute refute all 3 of them. Just another way he guarantees that no deal would be signed,while trying to spin this thing to fans and more importantly to him, his own more moderate members, as it was once more all big bad Bettman's fault.
- steveb12344

So you believe Cloutier's nonsense based on zero evidence to support it, over the evidence that does exist, to refute it? That makes sense. Spin doctors are at work.

And there were 18 players at that meeting. How many of them were considered Moderates?

Fehr does not have the power to veto any deal. He can influence the players and tell them what he thinks about it. And I'm certain that carries a lot of weight with the players.
But the players stated before the meeting even happened. Even releasing a statement stating so. That they were not there to agree to a deal.

And St.Louis being there is not irrelevant in terms of Cloutier flat out stating that St.Louis is being kept out of the process.

Not surprising, Fehr wants people who dislike Bettman more than people like Iginla.

I hope all these idiots end up playing in Siberia, flying around in those Russian death-traps.


Upshall, Clowe, Bissonette, Campoli and the like can all go start their own league!!!



- Powerslave

Exactly. If they hate the NHL that much they can go to Europe, I don't care at all.

So you believe Cloutier's nonsense based on zero evidence to support it, over the evidence that does exist, to refute it? That makes sense. Spin doctors are at work.

And there were 18 players at that meeting. How many of them were considered Moderates?

Fehr does not have the power to veto any deal. He can influence the players and tell them what he thinks about it. And I'm certain that carries a lot of weight with the players.
But the players stated before the meeting even happened. Even releasing a statement stating so. That they were not there to agree to a deal.

And St.Louis being there is not irrelevant in terms of Cloutier flat out stating that St.Louis is being kept out of the process.
- MJL

You are such a (frank)ing idiot its unbelievable! you take everything out of context to support your arguement, and twist one small detail into meaning the whole works is bullpoop? You have been wrong every step of the way and keep beating a dead horse.

Fact: The players have already lost more than they were ever fighting for.
Fact: The players could have had virtually the same deal in October and played a full slate of games and not lost 700 million in salary
Fact: The loudmouth hardliners are running the show.
Fact: Look at the group that was sent back in after the blow up...a whole list of irrelevant players that are towing the line.

Please...you ever hear the saying "where there is smoke there is fire?" I have some insider info of my own. I know NHLers and not just low level guys. The PA is doing plenty of infighting right now. Another FACT!

You are such a (frank)ing idiot its unbelievable! you take everything out of context to support your arguement, and twist one small detail into meaning the whole works is bullpoop? You have been wrong every step of the way and keep beating a dead horse.

Fact: The players have already lost more than they were ever fighting for.
Fact: The players could have had virtually the same deal in October and played a full slate of games and not lost 700 million in salary
Fact: The loudmouth hardliners are running the show.
Fact: Look at the group that was sent back in after the blow up...a whole list of irrelevant players that are towing the line.

Please...you ever hear the saying "where there is smoke there is fire?" I have some insider info of my own. I know NHLers and not just low level guys. The PA is doing plenty of infighting right now. Another FACT!
- Iggysbff

All of the above has absolutely zero to do with my statement on the blog that Cloutier wrote that stated St. Louis has been kept out of the process.

But I fully understand why you need to post personal insults, and deflect from the actual point. It's to be expected.

I think you have been wrong every step of the way. I said it so it must be true!

All of the above has absolutely zero to do with my statement on the blog that Cloutier wrote that stated St. Louis has been kept out of the process.

But I fully understand why you need to post personal insults, and deflect from the actual point. It's to be expected.

I think you have been wrong every step of the way. I said it so it must be true!
- MJL

Go away.

I hope all these idiots end up playing in Siberia, flying around in those Russian death-traps.


Upshall, Clowe, Bissonette, Campoli and the like can all go start their own league!!!



- Powerslave

as angry and emotional as this post is; i believe it's really the crux of the decert argument.

im admittedly fairly naive on the subject, but there are other leagues. leagues that many of the players are making a living in currently. they have options. if u dont like the nhl's brand of business you are more than able to opt for europe or a lesser league here.

while the collusion stuff ive read is certainly tricky, and not quite as open and shut for the owners as some seem to believe. there are other options open to the players. i cant see how this works out well for them in court.

unless the disclaimer of interest is something else altogether and not just different because of the PA vote or no vote