Nah, can't see the PA not coming closer to the owners proposals.

-The PA will accept the 8+2yrs CBA contract
-They will come closer on players contract terms (they made a BIG concession yesterday)
-Big issue remains the % of variation in money during the deal
-How does the make whole money gets distrubuted (per year)

Now, will the NHL accept to have Fehr back into the meetings? I doubt it, even the owners want nothing to do with him. The league will say, Bettman is not there, Fehr won't be. How will the players deal with that?
- Symba007

before bettmans presser i was so pissed at him, after his presser i actually felt as if he sincerely wanted to get this done and over with.

whats all this poop about a pension? the PA just keeps adding poop.

Spin?


They made an offer that wasn't an offer.
- burn

But the PA didn't make an offer...

What does the word "offer" mean to you?

our definitions of the word offer are very different
- Dozzer

Becaus you want it to? Did the pa counter the leagues proposal? Yes, but that's apparently not an offer. Not sure what is then.

I don't think he lied. For that to be true, you'd have to have evidence that he didn't think they were close. Everything says they were. The owners left saying they were close. Doesn't sound like he lied to me. The other side said pretty much the same.
- burn

Then you're delusional. All that had to happen was to say yes or no on 3 issues. That meeting was not supposed to be a negotiation, hence the reason only Daly and one other went from the NHL side.

If you say no, which the PA did, how in the hell can you then go public and say you're close because you agree to the other issues? Unless those 3 issues are met there is no deal, period. You could be an inch away or a mile away, until that's resolved you're not close and never will be close.

Becaus you want it to? Did the pa counter the leagues proposal? Yes, but that's apparently not an offer. Not sure what is then.
- burn

leafman put 2 and 2 together.

But the PA didn't make an offer...

What does the word "offer" mean to you?
- PatC80

The word offer to means sent back a proposal, which is what they did. How can this be in debate?

yeah i get what you mean here, but you gotta have an insane amount of talent just to get to the NHL level.

i have like 300 friends in my life who play hockey, cousins, etc.

2 have played NHL
like 6 have played AHL
a few NCAA and OHL/CHL/WHL

but most, like 98% play mens league, and id say 99.99% of them would LOVE to play in the NHL but dont have the skills.
- big_dion

I get the skills part, as a guy who played goal for 27 years at a fairly high level I clearly saw other goalies who were quicker, better agility, core strength etc.

I also played with Charlie Huddy, who was good but not great as a 14 year old not in the top 3 best players on our team) . He never got drafted as an 18 year old. But he was into fitness long before it was fashionable, was determined to make it and has Stanley Cup rings to show for it.

Then you're delusional. All that had to happen was to say yes or no on 3 issues. That meeting was not supposed to be a negotiation, hence the reason only Daly and one other went from the NHL side.

If you say no, which the PA did, how in the hell can you then go public and say you're close because you agree to the other issues? Unless those 3 issues are met there is no deal, period. You could be an inch away or a mile away, until that's resolved you're not close and never will be close.
- tmlfan69

exactly.

ive been behind the PA from the start, but it all changed last night.

period.

Becaus you want it to? Did the pa counter the leagues proposal? Yes, but that's apparently not an offer. Not sure what is then.
- burn

Again, the PA changed what was on the owners offer. The PA did not offer a new proposal. All the PA did was change the owners offer.

Becaus you want it to? Did the pa counter the leagues proposal? Yes, but that's apparently not an offer. Not sure what is then.
- burn

i do not consider an amendment to an offer to be an offer in itself is all.

Then you're delusional. All that had to happen was to say yes or no on 3 issues. That meeting was not supposed to be a negotiation, hence the reason only Daly and one other went from the NHL side.

If you say no, which the PA did, how in the hell can you then go public and say you're close because you agree to the other issues? Unless those 3 issues are met there is no deal, period. You could be an inch away or a mile away, until that's resolved you're not close and never will be close.
- tmlfan69

Right, becaus its not like the owners in the meetings said they thought they were close, oh wait they did.

Again, the PA changed what was on the owners offer. The PA did not offer a new proposal. All the PA did was change the owners offer.
- PatC80

And OFFERED it back to the league,.... Funny how negotiation works isn't it.

i do not consider an amendment to an offer to be an offer in itself is all.
- Dozzer

Like I said because you don't want to.


They sent back an offer.

Like I said because you don't want to.


They sent back an offer.
- burn

no, they sent back an amendment to an existing offer

that is not an offer.

And OFFERED it back to the league,.... Funny how negotiation works isn't it.
- burn

The PA didn't make an offer though..

Try putting into a different context. If I gave or offered you an unpeeled orange. You then said "no thanks, I want it peeled" and then gave it back to me.

Did you offer me an orange?

Right, becaus its not like the owners in the meetings said they thought they were close, oh wait they did.
- burn

If you can't see the difference between that and what Fehr did last night, I can't help you.

before bettmans presser i was so pissed at him, after his presser i actually felt as if he sincerely wanted to get this done and over with.

whats all this poop about a pension? the PA just keeps adding poop.
- big_dion

I am no fan of Bettman, but after watching some of that presser, he looked rattled, stressed and just tired of it. Like him or hate him at least Bettman is an NHL man, he has been around a long time, Fehr is just a robot brought in to crush the other side with no regard for the season or fans imo.

I was not on either side before yesterday, I was just in favor of whatever got hockey back, if it was the players taking a "bath" so to speak, then great, if it was the owners, then great. At the moment, I have no sympathy for the PA, Bettman earned a little bit of my respect from that.

The PA didn't make an offer though..

Try putting into a different context. If I gave or offered you an unpeeled orange. You then said "no thanks, I want it peeled" and then gave it back to me.

Did you offer me an orange?
- PatC80

well put

I am no fan of Bettman, but after watching some of that presser, he looked rattled, stressed and just tired of it. Like him or hate him at least Bettman is an NHL man, he has been around a long time, Fehr is just a robot brought in to crush the other side with no regard for the season or fans imo.

I was not on either side before yesterday, I was just in favor of whatever got hockey back, if it was the players taking a "bath" so to speak, then great, if it was the owners, then great. At the moment, I have no sympathy for the PA, Bettman earned a little bit of my respect from that.
- senstroll

you and me both, and i cant stand the weasal.

I am no fan of Bettman, but after watching some of that presser, he looked rattled, stressed and just tired of it. Like him or hate him at least Bettman is an NHL man, he has been around a long time, Fehr is just a robot brought in to crush the other side with no regard for the season or fans imo.

I was not on either side before yesterday, I was just in favor of whatever got hockey back, if it was the players taking a "bath" so to speak, then great, if it was the owners, then great. At the moment, I have no sympathy for the PA, Bettman earned a little bit of my respect from that.
- senstroll

I hear you but I think Bettman is behind the whole lock 'em out strategy, which is in the best interests of the owners and creates leverage with the players but screws us fans.

well put
- Dozzer

If he still doesn't get it, I'm gonna have to start drawing pictures

If he still doesn't get it, I'm gonna have to start drawing pictures
- PatC80

lol

jokes

i thin fehr's ego was hurt when the most progress was made when he was not there.

he couldnt handle that and voila...

I hear you but I think Bettman is behind the whole lock 'em out strategy, which is in the best interests of the owners and creates leverage with the players but screws us fans.
- Rang

i actually think bettman wants to get this done.

last night i gained respect for gary bettman, i never thought id say that.

I hear you but I think Bettman is behind the whole lock 'em out strategy, which is in the best interests of the owners and creates leverage with the players but screws us fans.
- Rang

I think the owners are behind the owners. Bettman is the figure head, paid very very well to take the brunt of the criticism and do what his owners want. Its much easier with 30 owners. Fehr on the other hand is telling the 700 players what to do.

Answer this.

#1 Do you think a deal would be done if Bettman was removed and fehr was still there?
#2 Do you think a deal would be done if Fehr was removed and Bettman was still there?

i actually think bettman wants to get this done.

last night i gained respect for gary bettman, i never thought id say that.
- big_dion

Yes I agree he wants a deal and he wants a season. They are throwing away away $3.3 B in revenue.

But he started the first offer at 43% and forced a lockout. Yes that was just an initial offer but it set a tone of mistrust that has never been solved.

As for Fehr he doesn't give a rat's ass about us fans, he just wants the best deal for the players.

frank em both