The offer from October 15th would have passed in a full NHLPA vote.
- l3ig_l2ecl

And how do you know this?

@aaronward_nhl: At this stage,doesn't appear the Union will take this present NHL offer to a full vote.PA still actively engaged in internal meetings #TSN
GODAMM IT
- Alexzanki

Getting Closer... atleast Ward is the most upbeat TSN reporter.

And how do you know this?
- MJL

Aliens

What you're blind to is that the end result of 50/50 could've been reached sooner. There is more at stake then just 50/50. There are other issues in play. Also how you get to 50/50 is key.
- MJL

I totally agree it could have been reached sooner.

However, Fehr took the road of no negotiations. NHL offered 43%, Fehr said 57%, NHL offered 46%, Fehr said 57%. NHL came in with 48%, Fehr came in with a napkin which said 56%, 54%, 52%, then went slowly back up to 57%.

Not to mention that Fehr took weeks each time to respond, and his 3 offers we literally on a single peice of paper. His first full offer come mid November!!!!

What you're blind to is that the end result of 50/50 could've been reached sooner. There is more at stake then just 50/50. There are other issues in play. Also how you get to 50/50 is key.
- MJL

Both parties are pushing each other to their limits to get the best deal possible. That's why it's taking so long.

I'm sure both parties knew the other party could last to "x" day, so they just give a little by little until D day.

Aliens
- glove_was_stuck

I totally agree it could have been reached sooner.

However, Fehr took the road of no negotiations. NHL offered 43%, Fehr said 57%, NHL offered 46%, Fehr said 57%. NHL came in with 48%, Fehr came in with a napkin which said 56%, 54%, 52%, then went slowly back up to 57%.

Not to mention that Fehr took weeks each time to respond, and his 3 offers we literally on a single peice of paper. His first full offer come mid November!!!!
- l3ig_l2ecl

Fehr is an idiot.

Bettman is a swine.

Glad they're runnin the show.

And how do you know this?
- MJL

I don't, it was a guess. However, chances are that more than 50% are getting hurt way more by missing a season or any games than what that offer would have given to them.

Out of the 700 players, most will only have 2-4 year playing careers, they will be replaced by young CHL and AHL guys who will be just as good but will cost entry lever contracts.

I'm just putting 2+2 together

The most popular sports in USA America:
#1 Soccer
#2 Baseball
#3 Football
#4 Basketball
#5 Golf
- bradjc

Soccer is behind football, baseball and basketball. You can argue for golf and Nascar, and probably could have argued for hockey before the lockout.

And before anyone tries to use the "it had higher attendance numbers than the NHL and NBA" argument. They play in bigger stadiums, and the MLS' TV contract isn't anywhere near what the NBA has, and the NHL exceeds it as well. You can't even compare it to the NFL with a straight face.

i just want a deal done

I totally agree it could have been reached sooner.

However, Fehr took the road of no negotiations. NHL offered 43%, Fehr said 57%, NHL offered 46%, Fehr said 57%. NHL came in with 48%, Fehr came in with a napkin which said 56%, 54%, 52%, then went slowly back up to 57%.

Not to mention that Fehr took weeks each time to respond, and his 3 offers we literally on a single peice of paper. His first full offer come mid November!!!!
- l3ig_l2ecl

Your problem is that you don't recognize a negotiation when you see one. Your own post contradicts your statement. You state that Fehr countered the NHL offers. That's negotiating. When your adversary is trying to take from your side in every key area of negotiation, you don't respond by giving in, if you expect to get any concessions for your side.
And your statement that Fehr took weeks each time to respond, is simply false. That can be refuted by looking at the timeline that can be found on websites such as tsn.ca.

I will bet $50.00 that we DO NOT see hockey this year..... Seeing alot of reports about hitting a wall and everyone will just go back to hiding


- Flyers_1488

ill take that bet

Both parties are pushing each other to their limits to get the best deal possible. That's why it's taking so long.

I'm sure both parties knew the other party could last to "x" day, so they just give a little by little until D day.
- HipHopisDead

I agree with that.

According to sources close to the negotiation it was Buffalo Sabres goalie Ryan Miller who lost his temper briefly, which seemed to encourage further dialogue, although at another point Boston Bruins hard line owner Jeremy Jacobs threatened to leave the negotiation. At that point a more moderate group of owners including the Pittsburgh Penguins' Ron Burkle and the Tampa Bay Lightning's Jeff Vinik agreed to keep the negotiation going

-Micheal Grange

Suck it Jacobs

Your problem is that you don't recognize a negotiation when you see one. Your own post contradicts your statement. You state that Fehr countered the NHL offers. That's negotiating. When your adversary is trying to take from your side in every key area of negotiation, you don't respond by giving in, if you expect to get any concessions for your side.
And your statement that Fehr took weeks each time to respond, is simply false. That can be refuted by looking at the timeline that can be found on websites such as tsn.ca.
- MJL

There's negotiating and then there's negotiating in good faith. Up until very recently, the NHLPA has done very little of the latter.

Both parties are pushing each other to their limits to get the best deal possible. That's why it's taking so long.

I'm sure both parties knew the other party could last to "x" day, so they just give a little by little until D day.
- HipHopisDead

It has been reported by many parties that the league actually had December 1 in mind to truly start negotiating. Until that point, it was all about taking as much from the players as possible.

According to sources close to the negotiation it was Buffalo Sabres goalie Ryan Miller who lost his temper briefly, which seemed to encourage further dialogue, although at another point Boston Bruins hard line owner Jeremy Jacobs threatened to leave the negotiation. At that point a more moderate group of owners including the Pittsburgh Penguins' Ron Burkle and the Tampa Bay Lightning's Jeff Vinik agreed to keep the negotiation going

-Micheal Grange

Suck it Jacobs
- Alexzanki

I read it as a slight on both Miller and Jacobs: "all right children, settle down".

It has been reported by many parties that the league actually had December 1 in mind to truly start negotiating. Until that point, it was all about taking as much from the players as possible.
- golfingsince

The problem with that theory: why even go up from 43% in the first place?

There's negotiating and then there's negotiating in good faith. Up until very recently, the NHLPA has done very little of the latter.
- buffalofan19

I disagree completely. If anything it has been the League that has not been negotiating in good faith. Not offering anything to the other side, except to take from them. Isn't negotiating in good faith. The PA has been willing to take a lesser percentage going forward the entire time. It was just a question of how to get there.

According to sources close to the negotiation it was Buffalo Sabres goalie Ryan Miller who lost his temper briefly, which seemed to encourage further dialogue, although at another point Boston Bruins hard line owner Jeremy Jacobs threatened to leave the negotiation. At that point a more moderate group of owners including the Pittsburgh Penguins' Ron Burkle and the Tampa Bay Lightning's Jeff Vinik agreed to keep the negotiation going

-Micheal Grange

Suck it Jacobs
- Alexzanki

Miller is just upset they won't include his Lucic Clause.

I read it as a slight on both Miller and Jacobs: "all right children, settle down".
- buffalofan19

Exactly my view point as well.

Arguing like 3rd graders over who wants Carl's fries, since he just said he doesn't want them.

It has been reported by many parties that the league actually had December 1 in mind to truly start negotiating. Until that point, it was all about taking as much from the players as possible.
- golfingsince

I don't know about the Dec 1 date. But there is no question in my mind that was the League's strategy in this.

Your problem is that you don't recognize a negotiation when you see one. Your own post contradicts your statement. You state that Fehr countered the NHL offers. That's negotiating. When your adversary is trying to take from your side in every key area of negotiation, you don't respond by giving in, if you expect to get any concessions for your side.
And your statement that Fehr took weeks each time to respond, is simply false. That can be refuted by looking at the timeline that can be found on websites such as tsn.ca.
- MJL

I do recognize a negotiation. I didn't say they warn't negotiating. I'm simply stating that the end result was always going to be 50%. No matter how they got there. Every NHL proposal inched towards that. However, the first 3 proposals by the NHLPA ended back at 57%, which is the exact opposite of what needed to happen.

Yes there were other issues, but this was the "core economics" issue. The one that we only saw a 50% October 16th, only to be countered by 3 dumb counters on a single peice of paper.

The problem with that theory: why even go up from 43% in the first place?
- buffalofan19

Because public sentiment was against them....... People far more connected than anyone posting on these boards have speculated as much, including former PA head Kelly and former GM Maclean.

The problem with that theory: why even go up from 43% in the first place?
- buffalofan19

very true