I disagree completely. If anything it has been the League that has not been negotiating in good faith. Not offering anything to the other side, except to take from them. Isn't negotiating in good faith. The PA has been willing to take a lesser percentage going forward the entire time. It was just a question of how to get there.
- MJL

If that were the case, the NHLPA would have come down from 57% long before they actually did. They didn't. Instead they stomped, pouted, whined and cried about how evil the owners were, and then insulted the middle class's intelligence by saying their situation was just like theirs.

I am so glad we have MJL here to tell us all how everything REALLY works.

I do recognize a negotiation. I didn't say they warn't negotiating. I'm simply stating that the end result was always going to be 50%. No matter how they got there. Every NHL proposal inched towards that. However, the first 3 proposals by the NHLPA ended back at 57%, which is the exact opposite of what needed to happen.

Yes there were other issues, but this was the "core economics" issue. The one that we only saw a 50% October 16th, only to be countered by 3 dumb counters on a single peice of paper.
- l3ig_l2ecl

The counters weren't dumb. If you think they were then you don't recognize a negotiation. You don't give in on the core economics issue if the League is also trying to take away all the contract rights also. It wasn't until the Leagues 2nd Make Whole offer that they truly started negotiating.

If that were the case, the NHLPA would have come down from 57% long before they actually did. They didn't. Instead they stomped, pouted, whined and cried about how evil the owners were, and then insulted the middle class's intelligence by saying they're situation was just like theirs.
- buffalofan19

The NHLPA staying at 57% was akin to the league offering 43%. Both parties were stating that they were ready for war........

http://cheezburger.com/6715437824

Because public sentiment was against them....... People far more connected than anyone posting on these boards have speculated as much, including former PA head Kelly and former GM Maclean.
- golfingsince

Public opinion is irrelevent. People who think the fans have an effect on how these negotiations are going are fooling themselves. The only reason these guys go public to the media is so players and owners not in that room know what comes out from the other side and can then compare it from the emails they get from their group.

Guys like Hartnell on TSN last night stated that he goes to the media to find the updates.

This is why the NHL posted their October 16th offer on their website. Funny thing is the email from Fehr which was sent earlier than the site posting contradicted the actual proposal.

Does anyone player NHL 13?

If that were the case, the NHLPA would have come down from 57% long before they actually did. They didn't. Instead they stomped, pouted, whined and cried about how evil the owners were, and then insulted the middle class's intelligence by saying their situation was just like theirs.
- buffalofan19

Not true. You need to retain some leverage so you can get some concessions in some other areas. Why would you come down from 57% when the League isn't offering you anything to do so?

The NHLPA staying at 57% was akin to the league offering 43%. Both parties were stating that they were ready for war........
- golfingsince

I have no problem with either side's starting point. It's the failure to grasp reality and not moving (which only one side is guilty of) that's the problem.

I disagree completely. If anything it has been the League that has not been negotiating in good faith. Not offering anything to the other side, except to take from them. Isn't negotiating in good faith. The PA has been willing to take a lesser percentage going forward the entire time. It was just a question of how to get there.
- MJL

What kind of things could the league have offered to the players to get them to move to 50% earlier? Less time/years to UFA? I know the fans don't matter, but as one, I'd be disappointed if players could just leave via UFA after 5 years or something.

The players keep talking about "not getting anything", but I'm not exactly sure what they really want/expect to get.

The NHLPA staying at 57% was akin to the league offering 43%. Both parties were stating that they were ready for war........
- golfingsince

Hey stud!

Guys like Hartnell on TSN last night stated that he goes to the media to find the updates.
- l3ig_l2ecl

Fehr
- l3ig_l2ecl

I am so glad we have MJL here to tell us all how everything REALLY works.
- Coburns_Nose

You're free to inject your opinion and tell me how I'm wrong. But I suspect if you could've done so, you would have. But since you responded as you did, that says it all.

The counters weren't dumb. If you think they were then you don't recognize a negotiation. You don't give in on the core economics issue if the League is also trying to take away all the contract rights also. It wasn't until the Leagues 2nd Make Whole offer that they truly started negotiating.
- MJL

Guess what big guy, both parties are now agreeing on a 50/50 are they not????????????????????????????

So how was it a good ideal for Fehr not to drop towards that 50/50?

Like I said many times in the last few posts, it was always going to be 50/50. So how is keeping at 57%, or going back to 57% a good strategy? How can it not be blamed for slowing down the process of getting to 50%?

I have no problem with either side's starting point. It's the failure to grasp reality and not moving (which only one side is guilty of) that's the problem.
- buffalofan19

You mean the side being asked to make the concessions? Of course it's going to take them longer to get there.

Miller is just upset they won't include his Lucic Clause.
- moondawg

Their might be something true to that seeing Lucic plays for the Boston is Jacobs is the owner and all. I gues that's the big divide........the Lucic clause.

Hey stud!
- whipper334

Howdy bro! How ya doin?

Any truth to the rumors of Fehr vs Bettman at wrestlemania this year?

Public opinion is irrelevent. People who think the fans have an effect on how these negotiations are going are fooling themselves. The only reason these guys go public to the media is so players and owners not in that room know what comes out from the other side and can then compare it from the emails they get from their group.

Guys like Hartnell on TSN last night stated that he goes to the media to find the updates.

This is why the NHL posted their October 16th offer on their website. Funny thing is the email from Fehr which was sent earlier than the site posting contradicted the actual proposal.
- l3ig_l2ecl

If this were true, neither side would have spent so much time posturing for the media.

Any truth to the rumors of Fehr vs Bettman at wrestlemania this year?
- mighty13duck

No, not true.....

It's a tag team match. Fehr brothers vs Bettman and Daly

Fehr will screw it up

Any truth to the rumors of Fehr vs Bettman at wrestlemania this year?
- mighty13duck

only if this happens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keZLvsXs-sQ

If this were true, neither side would have spent so much time posturing for the media.
- golfingsince

You must read the entire post before commenting!!

You're free to inject your opinion and tell me how I'm wrong. But I suspect if you could've done so, you would have. But since you responded as you did, that says it all.
- MJL

BUT YOU'RE NEVER WRONG!

I disagree completely. If anything it has been the League that has not been negotiating in good faith. Not offering anything to the other side, except to take from them. Isn't negotiating in good faith. The PA has been willing to take a lesser percentage going forward the entire time. It was just a question of how to get there.
- MJL

it's a lockout.
were u expecting some of the previous deal to actually get BETTER for the players?
what could they have offered? more time to 50/50? kinda defeats the purpose of the lockout and changing the system doesnt it?. less restrictions on contracts? kinda defeats the purpose of the lockout and to change the system they feel isnt working doesnt it?.

again, it's a lockout. the owners arent happy with the previous deal.
there were never any misconceptions here. are you sure you understand what bargaining in good faith means?