boy you guys really take that poop to heart eh?

So the answer is no then. Read the question.
I said would having seguin over the past 2 years instead of kessel have yielded better results....I dont believe so.
- Fakepartofme

I think he was talking about a draft pick? So I beleive it would

I think he was talking about a draft pick? So I beleive it would
- burn

You mean being worse and getting a better draft pick?

this is what he should compare as mentioned already

NHL totals

Age 18
Seguin - 11-11-22
Kessel - 0-0-0

Age 19
Seguin - 29-38-67
Kessel - 11-18-29

Total
Seguin - 40-49-89
Kessel - 11-18-29

Right now is when we need a 20 year old Center coming into his 3rd year in the NHL ready the break out. After that, we need to add a Kessel
- senstroll

Key difference, in Kessel's first season he missed 11 games in the NHL mid season due to being diagnosed with cancer.

Sorry, but the emotional, and mental factors of having to deal with this would affect your numbers.
2. when you miss a portion of games, you also miss the conditioning involved and it takes a bit to get your timing back. Doing this mid season when everyone else has their timing is even harder.

You mean being worse and getting a better draft pick?
- Fakepartofme

That's what I thought..... It's been awhile since that convo, but that's what I thought.

So now you should see the talent we missed out on. Only a few Kids can play in the NHL at 18, not even the Superstar Kessel could do that
- senstroll

couldn't have anything to do with his cancer

this is what he should compare as mentioned already

NHL totals

Age 18
Seguin - 11-11-22
Kessel - 0-0-0

Age 19
Seguin - 29-38-67
Kessel - 11-18-29

Total
Seguin - 40-49-89
Kessel - 11-18-29

Right now is when we need a 20 year old Center coming into his 3rd year in the NHL ready the break out. After that, we need to add a Kessel
- senstroll

leaf nation

more retards added daily.

Key difference, in Kessel's first season he missed 11 games in the NHL mid season due to being diagnosed with cancer.

Sorry, but the emotional, and mental factors of having to deal with this would affect your numbers.
2. when you miss a portion of games, you also miss the conditioning involved and it takes a bit to get your timing back. Doing this mid season when everyone else has their timing is even harder.
- ILoveLamp

boston's team was a lot different back then than it is now.

not to mention, there is a reason kessel wanted out of boston.

boston's team was a lot different back then than it is now.

not to mention, there is a reason kessel wanted out of boston.
- big_dion

leaf nation

more retards added daily.
- big_dion

- Leafland

haha

- AdamFrench

i cant see ur pick frenchy, stupid work blocked it.

i cant see ur pick frenchy, stupid work blocked it.
- big_dion

bag o`money

bag o`money
- AdamFrench

dolla dolla bills yal!

i find im getting a lot of PIM this year in hockey, so bitter about the NHL season i think it is...

a PPG and avg'ing 4 mins in PIM a game.

mah

dolla dolla bills yal!

i find im getting a lot of PIM this year in hockey, so bitter about the NHL season i think it is...

a PPG and avg'ing 4 mins in PIM a game.

mah
- big_dion

Sorry about checking you from behind mate, but I'm just so pissed that hockey is cancelled.

leaf nation

more retards added daily.
- big_dion

you agree the leafs would be better off without the trade

In response to whether or not Burke deserves to stay.

my two cents.

A GM is doing a good job if the team is better than it was. How do you measure this? Success on ice? or better positioned on ice?

I measure it by the talent pool on the team, the talent pool in the ranks, and the talent we are able to attract.

When Burke arrived, our top line was Poni-Stajan-Antro. Stajan is basically gone, and Poni and Antro are 3rd line players.

Top line now Lupul - Bozak - Kessel. During the year, Lupul and Kessel (both Burke acquisitions) were top 5 in scoring. I consider this a plus

+1 Burke

Second line
was Blake - Moore - Hagman is now Kulemin - Grabo - MacArthur

Although the second line is much better, Kulemin is a benefit of JFJ's drafting and Grabo is a benefit of the Silver Fox fleecing the Habs. MacArthur is the only addition to this line. However, a 25 goal scorer is a good thing to have.

+1 Burke

Trades
Kessel +1
Seguin -1
Dougie Hamilton -1
Knight 0
Phaneuf +1
Aulie +1
Sjostrom -1
Stajan +1
Hagman +1
Mayars +1
White -1
getting rid of Kaberle +1
Biggs +1
Colbourne +1
getting Versteeg -1
Bill Sweatt -1
Stahlberg - 1
Didomenico 0
Paradis 0
trading Blake +1
trading Toskala +1
Giguere +1 (was good, just ran into groin problems)
Lupul +1
Gardiner +1
getting rid of Versteeg +1
Percy +1
getting rid of Lebda +1
Franson +1
Lombardi -1
Keith Aulie -1
Carter Ashton -1
Steckel 0
Kubina -1
Exelby -1
Liles +1

There are more trades in picks and stuff, but let's keep it simpler than that

Final score: Burke +8

Free Agency
Komisarek -1
Connolly -1
Beachemin -1
MacArthur +1
Lebda -1
Gustavsson -1
Bozak +1
McClement unknown
Armstrong -1
Rickard Wallin -1

Free Agents = -5

Prospects

Remember, when looking at prospects, very few make the jump to the pros in their first year. a 4-5 year development is a good prospect. That means that we haven't really seen Burke's prospect enter the NHL yet.
Prospects that are panning out now

JFJ left us with
2004
Pogge BUST
Kukumberg BUST
Vorobiev BUST
Robbie Earl BUST
Semenov BUST
Steber BUST
Norton BUST
2005
Rask <- who JFJ Traded
Oreskovic - BUST
Berry - BUST
Dahlberg - BUST
Stralman - he made it!! but not as a real full timer
Rau - BUST
2006
Tlusty - not really a 1st round pro
Kulemin - FINALLY A PROSPECT!!!!!
Reimer - decent
Holzer - maybe, but still in AHL
Stahlberg - a prospect
ruegsegger - BUST
Komarov - old prospect now
Frank - BUST
Ferreiro - BUST
2007
first and second rounder traded for Toskala
Dale Mitchell Bust
Frattin - Good Job
Winnett - BUST
Mikus - BUST
Didmenico - meh
Gunnarsson - Prospect

In his four years of drafting, JFJ added one second line player, and a few third line players, one good D, and a goalie prospect. He traded our top g prospect for Raycroft.

In Burke's four years, he's added
FA college signing
Irwin
Hanson
Bozak
Brenner
Gustavvsson
Rynnas
Owuya

drafted
Kadri almost a PPG player in the AHL, still developing
Ryan - meh
Blacker - great shutdown D in AHL
Devane BUST
Knodel - University league,
D'Amigo - had an awesome playoff run in the AHL
Smith BUST
2010
Ross - Decent
McKegg - first year Pro
Olden - BUST
Granberg - meh, shut down in SEL
Carrick - meh
Brodin - meh
Nichols - meh
2011
Biggs - looking good in OHL
Percy - looking good in OHL
Leivo - looking food in OHL
Nilsson - meh
Camarensi - meh
Broll - looking good
Sparks- a hidden gem. might be ok
Everson - meh
2012
Rielly - tearing up the WHL
Finn - high scoring D in OHL
Toninato - first year college
Brown - looking good
Rupert - big surprise
Loov - meh

Burke's stocking the cupboards

All in all, Burke has done better, our team is improving. It will take time to pay off

In response to whether or not Burke deserves to stay.

my two cents.

A GM is doing a good job if the team is better than it was. How do you measure this? Success on ice? or better positioned on ice?

I measure it by the talent pool on the team, the talent pool in the ranks, and the talent we are able to attract.

When Burke arrived, our top line was Poni-Stajan-Antro. Stajan is basically gone, and Poni and Antro are 3rd line players.

Top line now Lupul - Bozak - Kessel. During the year, Lupul and Kessel (both Burke acquisitions) were top 5 in scoring. I consider this a plus

+1 Burke

Second line
was Blake - Moore - Hagman is now Kulemin - Grabo - MacArthur

Although the second line is much better, Kulemin is a benefit of JFJ's drafting and Grabo is a benefit of the Silver Fox fleecing the Habs. MacArthur is the only addition to this line. However, a 25 goal scorer is a good thing to have.

+1 Burke

Trades
Kessel +1
Seguin -1
Dougie Hamilton -1
Knight 0
Phaneuf +1
Aulie +1
Sjostrom -1
Stajan +1
Hagman +1
Mayars +1
White -1
getting rid of Kaberle +1
Biggs +1
Colbourne +1
getting Versteeg -1
Bill Sweatt -1
Stahlberg - 1
Didomenico 0
Paradis 0
trading Blake +1
trading Toskala +1
Giguere +1 (was good, just ran into groin problems)
Lupul +1
Gardiner +1
getting rid of Versteeg +1
Percy +1
getting rid of Lebda +1
Franson +1
Lombardi -1
Keith Aulie -1
Carter Ashton -1
Steckel 0
Kubina -1
Exelby -1
Liles +1

There are more trades in picks and stuff, but let's keep it simpler than that

Final score: Burke +8

Free Agency
Komisarek -1
Connolly -1
Beachemin -1
MacArthur +1
Lebda -1
Gustavsson -1
Bozak +1
McClement unknown
Armstrong -1
Rickard Wallin -1

Free Agents = -5

Prospects

Remember, when looking at prospects, very few make the jump to the pros in their first year. a 4-5 year development is a good prospect. That means that we haven't really seen Burke's prospect enter the NHL yet.
Prospects that are panning out now

JFJ left us with
2004
Pogge BUST
Kukumberg BUST
Vorobiev BUST
Robbie Earl BUST
Semenov BUST
Steber BUST
Norton BUST
2005
Rask <- who JFJ Traded
Oreskovic - BUST
Berry - BUST
Dahlberg - BUST
Stralman - he made it!! but not as a real full timer
Rau - BUST
2006
Tlusty - not really a 1st round pro
Kulemin - FINALLY A PROSPECT!!!!!
Reimer - decent
Holzer - maybe, but still in AHL
Stahlberg - a prospect
ruegsegger - BUST
Komarov - old prospect now
Frank - BUST
Ferreiro - BUST
2007
first and second rounder traded for Toskala
Dale Mitchell Bust
Frattin - Good Job
Winnett - BUST
Mikus - BUST
Didmenico - meh
Gunnarsson - Prospect

In his four years of drafting, JFJ added one second line player, and a few third line players, one good D, and a goalie prospect. He traded our top g prospect for Raycroft.

In Burke's four years, he's added
FA college signing
Irwin
Hanson
Bozak
Brenner
Gustavvsson
Rynnas
Owuya

drafted
Kadri almost a PPG player in the AHL, still developing
Ryan - meh
Blacker - great shutdown D in AHL
Devane BUST
Knodel - University league,
D'Amigo - had an awesome playoff run in the AHL
Smith BUST
2010
Ross - Decent
McKegg - first year Pro
Olden - BUST
Granberg - meh, shut down in SEL
Carrick - meh
Brodin - meh
Nichols - meh
2011
Biggs - looking good in OHL
Percy - looking good in OHL
Leivo - looking food in OHL
Nilsson - meh
Camarensi - meh
Broll - looking good
Sparks- a hidden gem. might be ok
Everson - meh
2012
Rielly - tearing up the WHL
Finn - high scoring D in OHL
Toninato - first year college
Brown - looking good
Rupert - big surprise
Loov - meh

Burke's stocking the cupboards

All in all, Burke has done better, our team is improving. It will take time to pay off
- ILoveLamp

wtf man!?!?!

If the whole season is lost, it's hard to see the Leafs firing Burke but his time is limited, especially if he continues to fail to make the playoffs. At this point, it's just a matter of time. Hopefully he doesn't damage the future with futile attempts to save his own ass but odds are, that's an inevitability.
- Two_For_Truth

I hate to get all UG on you here Two for Truth, but you can't put odds on an inevitability. It's either inevitable or it's a possibility.

wtf man!?!?!
- dt99999

everyone knows +/- is a useless stat

wtf man!?!?!
- dt99999

WTF x2

everyone knows +/- is a useless stat
- senstroll

WTF x2
- 1979AD

lol

If you're going to judge a GM, you have to take into account
What he arrived with
what prospect were in the system
what trades he made
what signings he made

can't judge him only on one thing

In response to whether or not Burke deserves to stay.

my two cents.

A GM is doing a good job if the team is better than it was. How do you measure this? Success on ice? or better positioned on ice?

I measure it by the talent pool on the team, the talent pool in the ranks, and the talent we are able to attract.

When Burke arrived, our top line was Poni-Stajan-Antro. Stajan is basically gone, and Poni and Antro are 3rd line players.

Top line now Lupul - Bozak - Kessel. During the year, Lupul and Kessel (both Burke acquisitions) were top 5 in scoring. I consider this a plus

+1 Burke

Second line
was Blake - Moore - Hagman is now Kulemin - Grabo - MacArthur

Although the second line is much better, Kulemin is a benefit of JFJ's drafting and Grabo is a benefit of the Silver Fox fleecing the Habs. MacArthur is the only addition to this line. However, a 25 goal scorer is a good thing to have.

+1 Burke

Trades
Kessel +1
Seguin -1
Dougie Hamilton -1
Knight 0
Phaneuf +1
Aulie +1
Sjostrom -1
Stajan +1
Hagman +1
Mayars +1
White -1
getting rid of Kaberle +1
Biggs +1
Colbourne +1
getting Versteeg -1
Bill Sweatt -1
Stahlberg - 1
Didomenico 0
Paradis 0
trading Blake +1
trading Toskala +1
Giguere +1 (was good, just ran into groin problems)
Lupul +1
Gardiner +1
getting rid of Versteeg +1
Percy +1
getting rid of Lebda +1
Franson +1
Lombardi -1
Keith Aulie -1
Carter Ashton -1
Steckel 0
Kubina -1
Exelby -1
Liles +1

There are more trades in picks and stuff, but let's keep it simpler than that

Final score: Burke +8

Free Agency
Komisarek -1
Connolly -1
Beachemin -1
MacArthur +1
Lebda -1
Gustavsson -1
Bozak +1
McClement unknown
Armstrong -1
Rickard Wallin -1

Free Agents = -5

Prospects

Remember, when looking at prospects, very few make the jump to the pros in their first year. a 4-5 year development is a good prospect. That means that we haven't really seen Burke's prospect enter the NHL yet.
Prospects that are panning out now

JFJ left us with
2004
Pogge BUST
Kukumberg BUST
Vorobiev BUST
Robbie Earl BUST
Semenov BUST
Steber BUST
Norton BUST
2005
Rask <- who JFJ Traded
Oreskovic - BUST
Berry - BUST
Dahlberg - BUST
Stralman - he made it!! but not as a real full timer
Rau - BUST
2006
Tlusty - not really a 1st round pro
Kulemin - FINALLY A PROSPECT!!!!!
Reimer - decent
Holzer - maybe, but still in AHL
Stahlberg - a prospect
ruegsegger - BUST
Komarov - old prospect now
Frank - BUST
Ferreiro - BUST
2007
first and second rounder traded for Toskala
Dale Mitchell Bust
Frattin - Good Job
Winnett - BUST
Mikus - BUST
Didmenico - meh
Gunnarsson - Prospect

In his four years of drafting, JFJ added one second line player, and a few third line players, one good D, and a goalie prospect. He traded our top g prospect for Raycroft.

In Burke's four years, he's added
FA college signing
Irwin
Hanson
Bozak
Brenner
Gustavvsson
Rynnas
Owuya

drafted
Kadri almost a PPG player in the AHL, still developing
Ryan - meh
Blacker - great shutdown D in AHL
Devane BUST
Knodel - University league,
D'Amigo - had an awesome playoff run in the AHL
Smith BUST
2010
Ross - Decent
McKegg - first year Pro
Olden - BUST
Granberg - meh, shut down in SEL
Carrick - meh
Brodin - meh
Nichols - meh
2011
Biggs - looking good in OHL
Percy - looking good in OHL
Leivo - looking food in OHL
Nilsson - meh
Camarensi - meh
Broll - looking good
Sparks- a hidden gem. might be ok
Everson - meh
2012
Rielly - tearing up the WHL
Finn - high scoring D in OHL
Toninato - first year college
Brown - looking good
Rupert - big surprise
Loov - meh

Burke's stocking the cupboards

All in all, Burke has done better, our team is improving. It will take time to pay off
- ILoveLamp

Wow, +1 on that post. I didn't read it though.

boston's team was a lot different back then than it is now.

not to mention, there is a reason kessel wanted out of boston.
- big_dion

and that's because they would not pay him more than krejci.