On Leddy defering to Clendening
- philco28

You know I wondered from the start of this major league roster demotion period, if the NHLers were given any guidlines to not try and play foot to the pedal, and basically play within the game and teammates so they didn't incur injury...

You know I wondered from the start of this major league roster demotion period, if the NHLers were given any guidlines to not try and play foot to the pedal, and basically play within the game and teammates so they didn't incur injury...
- wiz1901

Perhaps they instructed Leddy to focus more on his own end than moving the puck. God knows he needs help in that area.

JJ, Why would he have to be a better player than Sharp? I just think I would rather have Saad than Stalberg. If you are being critical of readers saying that Saad should be up with the hawks soon than I would have to be critical of you saying Danault is a 2nd line center.
- lemieux26

I said Danault projects as a 2nd line center. The (big) difference is, I did not put a 12 month timetable on it.

Nor would I. I believe in letting prospects develop. I have been really consistent on that.

And as much as people want to bash Stalberg, I'm not sure (at all) Saad would be as good as Stalberg right now, in every facet of the game. And if he is, maybe it speaks to a larger problem with the Hawk roster and organization.

But as I say, this isn't 2004 anymore. There is ZERO point in rushing rpospects along on what should be a top 8 teamin the league year after year.

Right now, Saad projects to a 45 point season as a rookie in the AHL. Not bad. Not earth shattering, not even what you'd call reallyy good. Just: good, solid, and right where you want him to be on a reasonable development track. He's also -3.

For perspective sake, Rostislav Olesz—a guy everyone here wanted to bury— with a bum knee was a PPG and + player in the A last year.

let's get real and not put words in anyone's mouth either.

Oh I agree that bringing in new pieces to the Blackhawks puzzle from the outside is the best way to succeed at this point.

But if no moves were to be made, I'd rather take my chances with sine experience than unproven rookies. That's all.
- TyCamScore

Well, if you're talking about the group you just referred to, maybe... I do sorta like those guys. But I think we've had two years of them and we know the potential of the group with them. And that potential falls short of a Cup, or even of any hope or spark once the playoffs begin. Two years in a row.

I would argue that what makes this game fun is when you have unfulfilled potential, in other words, high ceilings not yet realized. With anything else... you got the the Cup winner, where the only place to go is down. Or you have the Sharks - whose great in the regular season but year after year with the same guys you're not getting anywhere in the playoffs.

Bring in a couple of: Morin, Saad, Danault, or in a year or two a Teravainen or a Shalunov, and yes you may have regression, but I'd also argue that your ceiling is higher come playoff-time.

Look I will be bruatlly honest:
I have to love for either Stålberg or Saad. Not rooting for or against either.
It would be very difficult for me to make a statement like "...rather have Saad than Stalberg."
I NEVER viewed Stålberg as a high trade return, but last season I was VERY surprised at the gains I felt I saw. (And then the playoff arrive with an entire team of forward line disappointments.) In the times I saw Saad, he showed very little that encouraged me he could replace Stålberg's speed or anybody, because there was little production, scattered views, and no consistency in how Saad was used.
It just seems like ...you can't make a statement that you would rather have Saad when really it is a matter of Saad beating out a Stalberg, whereby they have to tarde him elsewhere right. Stalberg cannot be demoted to Rockford. Just traded in this contract year.
I think I would stand beside you and agree that it is too early to call Danault the heir apparent for Bolland, or the new second line centre.
I believe JJ is saying ...if all continues to progress...he "projects to have as high a ceiling as a second line centre."
Scouts prior to the 2011 NHL entry draft in September October November, Saad was called the "Premiere power forward of the draft class" and i saw him ranked as high as 4th overall. By the January Propspects game he was still on many scouting lists as the 8th best, top ten pick for sure. Then, people felt his skating had regressed, commitment decreased, and soon after, he was noted to be playng injured, with groin problem.
In my scouting profile on DraftSite, I wrote:
Strong big winger with good hands, surprising quickness, and vision, who creates space, and has some nasty in his game. He is a competitor who is difficult to handle in front and near the net and displays a quick snapper of a shot in a toolbox that looks to be pro-bound big time. Like so many gifted two way players, he tends to overlook a strong commitment to his defensive zone at times. It remains to be seen if he can embrace this type of role as competition gets tougher. The thing is I honestly have yet to see this player in his chances with the hawks and in the Ice showings. I believe he is a work in progress, but if and when he shows an upward progression, he needs to play on a line and stay there to build consistency, confidence, a sense of "natural reaction."
I think Stålberg has actually started to show some of those attributes.
- wiz1901

Saw this after I posted above. But yes, THIS.

Stalberg is more mature than Saad. Saad will likely IMO end up being the better player over the course of his career but I am not 100% sure of that and Stalberg has the benefit today of 2-3 NHL seasons and more physical and emotional maturity under his belt.

The point, again, is why rush Saad? Those who keep suggesting it are vastly overrating his overall game at this point and putting him in position to be damaged mentally.

Finally Wiz, I agree with ALL you say on Danault, except again, watch what happens when he wins a puck or receives a pass—the puck is going elsewhere fast and with accuracy. What I saw last night was guys on his team NOT getting to where they should have been and barely missing passes to open spots. Danault, I think will get better playing with better wingers and finishers. He can pass the puck. He has the hands, the vision and the anticipation that good (if not great) passers have.

I found the Icehogs game vs Wolves to be interesting in that Clandenning and Stanton appeared to log the most ice time amongst the D. They were paired on the PP and on a crucial PK in the third.

Morin looks closer to playing in the NHL rather than Smith or Hayes so far. Beach might be right behing Morin.

Nice depth at Rockford. Which is nice only that depth is only important when we are playing!!

In 8/13 games he hasn't registered a point. I also believe he was a healthy scratch for several games. Producing goes far beyond points and the effort level JJ mentioned was what I was alluding to with my question. I'm sorry if you are a family member and was offended by my question. I do expect more than 0.5ppg from an otherwise NHL player in the A.
- dawgzhouse

"Lower body" injury early in the season

JJ, Why would he have to be a better player than Sharp? I just think I would rather have Saad than Stalberg. If you are being critical of readers saying that Saad should be up with the hawks soon than I would have to be critical of you saying Danault is a 2nd line center.
- lemieux26

Stalberg is legitimate NHL talent (probably top 5 skater in the league) and popped +20 goals in the show with ZERO Power Play goals. I cant believe that is a serious statement.

Stalberg is legitimate NHL talent (probably top 5 skater in the league) and popped +20 goals in the show with ZERO Power Play goals. I cant believe that is a serious statement.
- fattybeef

Top 5 skater, or just a faster skater? Seemed to be confused often with the puck at his own blue line.

BTW, I'm in China for a short business trip: haven't run into anyone yet who mentioned the lock-out /CBA - do you think they just don't care?

It was a close call because the Wolves' player saw Paradis coming and the hit was shoulder on shoulder, but the ref must have felt the Wolves' player was nonetheless in a vulnerable position. Shaw got a similar penalty when he absolutely blew up another Wolves' player. I had no problem with either hit.
- philco28

Exactly. I thought both hits were fine. Maybe they were iin a bad spot. They both knew they were about to get hit. I thought they were hit from the side

It was a close call because the Wolves' player saw Paradis coming and the hit was shoulder on shoulder, but the ref must have felt the Wolves' player was nonetheless in a vulnerable position. Shaw got a similar penalty when he absolutely blew up another Wolves' player. I had no problem with either hit.
- philco28

The Shaw hit on Sterling was definitely a penalty. No question.

How did Beach look? From stats alone it looks like he's having a decent year.
- Winterland

He looks to me pretty much the same players he has been....

Billy Gardner said Beach was on the verge of being a scratch before he was named player of the week...

The urgency has to come from within.

What I saw last night was the same Beach....Getting beat up, taking bad penalties and being MIA for most of the night.

On Twitter@AlCimaglia

In general the defensive zone coverage for the Hogs was poor and they were fortunate Hutton had a nice game.

Stalberg is legitimate NHL talent (probably top 5 skater in the league) and popped +20 goals in the show with ZERO Power Play goals. I cant believe that is a serious statement.
- fattybeef

Thanks. I wasn't aware.

The Shaw hit on Sterling was definitely a penalty. No question.
- Fosco

Had no problemo with it...shoulder on shoulder...and next time Sterling will keep his head up.

Exactly. I thought both hits were fine. Maybe they were iin a bad spot. They both knew they were about to get hit. I thought they were hit from the side
- tomcat24

Yepper

Prospects I'll try to watch tonight:

Danault
McNeill
Carruth
Whitney
Fournier
A. Broadhurst

Blog tomorrow

Seems like this thread has touched on a lingering issue—the notion that the prospects are the "answer" to what limits the Hawks (once the NHL resumes).

To my mind, the answer to that is still a resounding "no."

A year from now, if that's when the NHL resumes there could be an answer or two coming from the prospect ranks, but just as likely all of the kids will still benefit then from some seasoning.

And funny how this veered to Stalberg. A player who, at times last year, looked poised to break out as a—yes—superstar, really until he disappeared in the playoffs. Yet some are ready to throw him out for Saad.

The point is, to my mind, the opportunity for improvement at the NHL level from within the organization is in that rank of players with 1/2 to 2 years' NHL experience: Kruger, Smith, Shaw, Bollig, Stalberg, Leddy, or maybe even a kid like Paradis (or Stanton) who is clearly a 4th line guy at the NHL level and has a couple of pro seasons under his belt already.

How does Detroit produce quality players year after year in spite of drafting late for well over a decade now? The easy (and inaccurate) answer is their scouting. Which, while good, is not nearly good enough to explain it. It is in patient, rigorous prospect development. When Detroit's guys come up from the AHL, they are PAST NHL ready. That's how you do it.

That's what the Hawks should be doing. And I think it is questionable how well they're doing it. One issue is the hyping of prospects before they're ready (see: Saad, B.); the other is in the system (or lack thereof) they play in Rockford. I see the Hawk transition game (sort of) in what they're doing. But as I've said previously, they really lack the defensive zone (including breakouts) discipline that the Hawks (at their best) display.

Well, looks like we have reached rock bottom. Even with mediation nothing positive came out of it. Now we have yet another PR stunt of owners and players meeting face to face without Daly, Fehr, or Gary. Please.

Looking more and more that the season will be lost, and with that a lot of hockey markets may never recover. Hard to support a sport that continually kills itself with stupdity.

Speaking of stupidity, if there was ever a question of Boland not being on this team in 6 months, he answered that with his nice twitter stunt. Can only imagine the rage that captain spin, McDonough, went through readng about more"bad press" for another one of his players.

lastly, at least Kane has never been arrested for being "super drunk", driving down the wrong side of a street, dressed as a telly tubby, and trying to claim he was somebody else....That's a helluva prospect, Detroit.

Seems like this thread has touched on a lingering issue—the notion that the prospects are the "answer" to what limits the Hawks (once the NHL resumes).

To my mind, the answer to that is still a resounding "no."

A year from now, if that's when the NHL resumes there could be an answer or two coming from the prospect ranks, but just as likely all of the kids will still benefit then from some seasoning.

And funny how this veered to Stalberg. A player who, at times last year, looked poised to break out as a—yes—superstar, really until he disappeared in the playoffs. Yet some are ready to throw him out for Saad.

The point is, to my mind, the opportunity for improvement at the NHL level from within the organization is in that rank of players with 1/2 to 2 years' NHL experience: Kruger, Smith, Shaw, Bollig, Stalberg, Leddy, or maybe even a kid like Paradis (or Stanton) who is clearly a 4th line guy at the NHL level and has a couple of pro seasons under his belt already.

How does Detroit produce quality players year after year in spite of drafting late for well over a decade now? The easy (and inaccurate) answer is their scouting. Which, while good, is not nearly good enough to explain it. It is in patient, rigorous prospect development. When Detroit's guys come up from the AHL, they are PAST NHL ready. That's how you do it.

That's what the Hawks should be doing. And I think it is questionable how well they're doing it. One issue is the hyping of prospects before they're ready (see: Saad, B.); the other is in the system (or lack thereof) they play in Rockford. I see the Hawk transition game (sort of) in what they're doing. But as I've said previously, they really lack the defensive zone (including breakouts) discipline that the Hawks (at their best) display.
- John Jaeckel

Agreed. I have yet to see a prospect debut at the NHL level to get excited about. I don't care about the AHL, juniors, or aything else. These crop of prospects aren't passing the eye test the way the BUffs, Brouwers, Versteegs, etc all did.

All we have is a desperate management core trying to buy time with a promise of good things to come. Meanwhile the parent team remain flawed and poorly constructed by a GM who should be in BFE Sweeden watching 13 yr olds cycle in the zone.

JJ, I have been following you for some time and really enjoy reading your comments, evaluations, etc. as well as comments from others. Having followed the prospects camp, the subway series, and having seen Rockford a few times, my projections for some of the prospects in terms of how they might equate with current NHL (mostly Hawks) players are as follows:

Danault = Toews on the defensive side of the puck (faceoffs, pure tenacity... I love this guy’s heart) but more like Bolland with greater upside on the offensive side of the puck

McNeill = Backes at center if he can continue to improve as a center and improve his offense or he is a meaner version of Brouwer at wing

Saad = Ladd with just a good all around solid game but needs to play with higher-end skill players to be really effective

Bollig = Eager as a 4th liner

Beach = Eager as a 4th liner with potentially higher offensive upside but not as good a fighter (both were first rd picks)

Paradis = Burish with more size

I also like Morin a lot but am just not sure who he might compare to.

Well, looks like we have reached rock bottom. Even with mediation nothing positive came out of it. Now we have yet another PR stunt of owners and players meeting face to face without Daly, Fehr, or Gary. Please.

Looking more and more that the season will be lost, and with that a lot of hockey markets may never recover. Hard to support a sport that continually kills itself with stupdity.

Speaking of stupidity, if there was ever a question of Boland not being on this team in 6 months, he answered that with his nice twitter stunt. Can only imagine the rage that captain spin, McDonough, went through readng about more"bad press" for another one of his players.

lastly, at least Kane has never been arrested for being "super drunk", driving down the wrong side of a street, dressed as a telly tubby, and trying to claim he was somebody else....That's a helluva prospect, Detroit.
- SteveRain

Yeah, I read about that. Holy crap.

And only as far as we know, Kane hasn't done that. Just kiddin'.

Seems like this thread has touched on a lingering issue—the notion that the prospects are the "answer" to what limits the Hawks (once the NHL resumes).

To my mind, the answer to that is still a resounding "no."

A year from now, if that's when the NHL resumes there could be an answer or two coming from the prospect ranks, but just as likely all of the kids will still benefit then from some seasoning.

And funny how this veered to Stalberg. A player who, at times last year, looked poised to break out as a—yes—superstar, really until he disappeared in the playoffs. Yet some are ready to throw him out for Saad.

The point is, to my mind, the opportunity for improvement at the NHL level from within the organization is in that rank of players with 1/2 to 2 years' NHL experience: Kruger, Smith, Shaw, Bollig, Stalberg, Leddy, or maybe even a kid like Paradis (or Stanton) who is clearly a 4th line guy at the NHL level and has a couple of pro seasons under his belt already.

How does Detroit produce quality players year after year in spite of drafting late for well over a decade now? The easy (and inaccurate) answer is their scouting. Which, while good, is not nearly good enough to explain it. It is in patient, rigorous prospect development. When Detroit's guys come up from the AHL, they are PAST NHL ready. That's how you do it.

That's what the Hawks should be doing. And I think it is questionable how well they're doing it. One issue is the hyping of prospects before they're ready (see: Saad, B.); the other is in the system (or lack thereof) they play in Rockford. I see the Hawk transition game (sort of) in what they're doing. But as I've said previously, they really lack the defensive zone (including breakouts) discipline that the Hawks (at their best) display.
- John Jaeckel

I've no "answer" for what we do to move forward. Not even Saad, your posterboy for delusional hope in farm prospects. What I have gone on record is to say that I know what I don't want to see - that is more of the same... castoff journeymen with low ceilings. Its just not fun to watch. I'd much prefer to parlay some of this talent into guys like Buff or Lucic or Ladd... Guys with leadership qualities that you don't have to worry about falling apart once they hit the ice...

Agreed. I have yet to see a prospect debut at the NHL level to get excited about. I don't care about the AHL, juniors, or aything else. These crop of prospects aren't passing the eye test the way the BUffs, Brouwers, Versteegs, etc all did.

All we have is a desperate management core trying to buy time with a promise of good things to come. Meanwhile the parent team remain flawed and poorly constructed by a GM who should be in BFE Sweeden watching 13 yr olds cycle in the zone.
- SteveRain

Personally . . . I'm going to differ with you on this one. When Buff (especially) and even Brouwer and Versteeg came up, this wasn't exactly an NHL powerhouse. There is a lot of established veteran talent on this club so that you can't plug a guy with talent but huge flaws in his game—like you could from 2004-2008 or so—and he will be tolerable.

That said, aside from Teravainen (and he's not guaranteed by any stretch), I don't think there is any prospect you can say is going to be a top line NHL player. Saad is big and he skates well and unlike the similar (in those regards) Jack Skille (for example) he seems to think the game well. But all the "scouts" in the fanbase proclaiming him a future first line player or HOF'er need to slow down and look around the league at other prospects like Huberdeau and Tarasenko and Yakupov and others who ooze talent and dominate all the time.

Where I will credit these guys is they seem to have hit on a lot (and more than most teams do) of draft picks with guys who appear to have an NHL future in some role or another. Some, like Danault and Saad and Shalunov, appear to have some intriguing upside especially where they were picked.

I've no "answer" for what we do to move forward. Not even Saad, your posterboy for delusional hope in farm prospects. What I have gone on record is to say that I know what I don't want to see - that is more of the same... castoff journeymen with low ceilings. Its just not fun to watch. I'd much prefer to parlay some of this talent into guys like Buff or Lucic or Ladd... Guys with leadership qualities that you don't have to worry about falling apart once they hit the ice...
- busmaster

Understand, again, i think Saad's going to be at least a good-ish NHL player. And maybe more. But I just find it laughable the way some in the fanbase drool over him like he's the next Gordie Howe when it really remains to be seen how good he will be. And there is at least reason to doubt he will ever be much more than a decent second line PF.

I am with you on Buff, Lucic and Ladd and glad you include Buff because I think people look at his weight or his regular season scoring totals and automatically assume he's lazy, when, in fact, he brings something rare on the ice, with and without the puck and is a leader and well-liked in the dressing room.